Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

No fine for Simmonds. I think the NHL was in a bind here to be honest. If they would have suspended/fined Simmonds without suspending/fining Avery for his sucker punch and his own comments, it would have caused an outrage. Obviously, they could have done them both in, but unlike the situation with Avery (death threat to Giroux), there is no audio of what Simmonds says to Avery (although you can clearly read his lips). More importantly though, if they fined Simmonds--or really either of them for their comments on the ice, the NHL would be reaching into a whole bag of snakes. What is said on the ice should stay on the ice. I truly believe in the sanctity of keeping it on the ice. The second the league dives into this subject and drawing up fines, suspensions, etc. it's going to be an even more slippery slope than Rule 48. While I do not condone Simmonds use of the word, I don't believe he means it any other context than being cowardly--much like the fact that I do not believe Sean Avery was actually going to murder Claude Giroux.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Avery is such a douchebag.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

One of my favorite Tim Thomas moments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2lEUxwngZA

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I understand the "sanctity of keeping it on the ice" attitude, really, but the thing is, as someone who was just last week the victim of prejudice, he of all people should be sensitive to any prejudice, not just when he is the victim of it. Can't have it both ways. Find a different word to describe Avery. There are plenty that aren't based in prejudice.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

:lol :lol Awesome. Why are there so many losers in the NHL?? Avery needs to be traded to the Nucks so most of them are on the same team.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

It's just a joke that now, all of sudden because of a player, whose involved in gay rights, was called the slur, the NHL is going to look into everything. Does the NHL really expect me to believe that no ref didn't hear the word being yelled out? That's the thing that gets me. If they're going to dive into this thing full on (which thankfully they're not since Simmonds didn't get a suspension) then they better look at everything that has happened in the past.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Fuck that. Keep that bitch out of the Western Conference thanks.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I hate to say it, and I'm not saying this makes it right, but I've heard players call other players that my whole hockey life - through pee wees, high school, college, and the silly beer leagues I find myself in now. I can only imagine it being worse in the pros. That and much worse is said and usually nothing personal is meant by it. Maybe it comes from just growing up with it, but I tend to lean more towards the leave it on the ice mentality.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

That doesn't matter. I know it's very common, but that's exactly what needs to change. And a black hockey player should be even more acutely aware of that than most.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Look we're not saying that it's not a problem, but the way it has come into the spotlight is a little bit suspect considering the accusor--who I have no doubt in thinking he said the 'n' word to Simmonds at some point in his career.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

And see I don't necessarily feel that way. Maybe my attitude is a little too relaxed, but yeah.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Well sure. I hate Avery as much as anyone, and he could well be making it up, but *if* it's true, it would be disappointing that it came from Simmonds. I have no problem with the NHL not disciplining Simmonds if they can't prove that's what he said, but both Simmonds and the NHL should have, as part of the public reaction to this, strongly condemned the use of the word. Instead, Simmonds pulled the politicians' favorite line, "I can't recall." That to me indicates it was probably true.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

To me that's because you're desensitized. And that's not your fault. But the culture must change, and while I understand that can't happen overnight, it has to start somewhere.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Avery would make a great addition on Vancouver, a complete coward.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Actually, I think it is my fault. I'm the one who has chosen to play the game this long. I'm not one to go around uttering racial or homophobic slurs during games, but they are said all the time. To me, part of the beauty - if you can call it that - of hockey is the camaraderie... guys can go out, play hard, beat the hell out of each other, cuss the hell out of each other, but when it's all said and done, shake hands and get on with life. There have been a number of occassions where we've actually gone out for drinks with guys from the other team after the game (don't worry guys, I'm the DD ;)).

My point is not that it's "ok" or acceptable to call someone something like that - it's not. I just find it interesting that in a sport where competitive nature in the form of physical and often vocal brutality is accepted and even encouraged on the ice, this is all of a sudden being brought to the fore front by a guy whose words and actions have been nothing short of controversial in the past and who seems to have an affinity for the limelight. It wouldn't surprise me at all for a "media darling" like Avery, who hasn't had the spotlight on him for a while, bring this up to get the attention he craves, and maybe even add some fuel for the upcoming Winter Classic. Just a thought.

Erik, I agree that racism or outright hatred has no place in hockey, or anywhere for that matter. Do I think the issue is that big in hockey? No, and I think that's where our opinions separate. I think, going back to what I said above, guys for the most part, say things without malice and take it without offense. Can players be more careful, though? Certainly. Good discussion, man. You've got me talking in here more than I have in the last couple weeks, and got me thinking too. I like hearing your insights in this thread. :thumbsup

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Meant to post about this when it happened, but they bounced Kotalik and Morrisonn (two of the bigger free agent signings this summer) down to Rochester. They're now $900,000+ below the cap. Sucks that it came to this. Uncle Terry was a little too free-spending this summer. I just hope the defense is alright, considering how expensive they are (must be one of the most expensive defenses in hockey--those eight guys are worth $17 million just by themselves).

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Cool. And what you said about being able to beat each other to a pulp and respect each other when you're done is a very admirable trait of hockey players in general.

And the fact that it's coming from Avery, the shit he's pulled in the past definitely weakens his attempt at taking the moral high road.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I just think this wouldnt be an issue if what happened to simmonds last week didn't happen. Avery took full advantage and opportunity to downgrade simmonds.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

If there's anything that brings a bunch of hockey fans together, it's hating on Avery.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

He used to get a bit of a pass because he played with some semblance of passion and it paid off in decent point production, but now he's completely degenerated to the point of sideshow clown. If he keeps it up, we'll definitely not see a lot of him again this year, but the press box will.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I did a piece on the type of impact Wayne Simmonds will have for the Flyers this year: http://crimespreehockey.wordpress.co...-waynes-world/

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Ben Smith just died on a really dirty hit

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Fuck Brendan Smith for that hit. Was Ben Smith toe dragging across middle ice with his head down? Yeah. He deserved to get popped, that's hockey. But not a blow to the head, ESPECIALLY preseason.

Where's Crosby to preach about head hits when you need him?

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Smith should and probably will get suspended but Ben Smith shouldn't have his head down like that. Not that it makes the hit ok but some of these guys have to learn. Everyone says players will learn to not target the head because hockey players are smart but if players can't learn to not put their head down while skating into the middle of the ice how can we expect them to not put a shoulder into the guys head?

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Really? So that justifies it? The kid was gathering the puck looking to put it on net and he got blindsided. Like he could see that coming.

Oh yeah...and it's the damn pre-season.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

If you remove the 2nd sentence that I wrote where I say it doesn't make it ok then yeah but I did write the second sentence so I'm saying it's not ok. And who gives a shit if it's the pre-season? That's two people who've said that now. It's a hit to the head. It would be now and it would be in June. Even if he wouldn't have made contact to the head I'd tell him to line him up and nail him no matter when it is. I'm just saying how can we say players should learn to not target the head when players can't learn to keep their head up?

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Whoever thinks the Smith hit doesn't warrant a suspension is off their rocker. Terrible. I can't see anyone who can argue that the initial contact wasn't shoulder to head.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Tim, as I said in my post, Ben 100% deserved to be decked. 100%. Keep your head up kid.

But that said, the hit was incredibly dirty, and it came from someone that, by all accounts, is a first round bust to someone that would be playing for the parent squad. That's why preseason matters. Brendan was probably hours away from being shipped to the AHL, and he seriously damaged the Blackhawks roster by taking out Ben Smith.

But the main thing that we should be focusing on is that the hit was clearly dirty, not that Ben didn't have his head up. Regardless of whether or not Ben had his head up, that hit shouldn't have taken place like that. If you can't line up a clean hit, fall on your stomach like an idiot and trip him or something. Take away the scoring chance, look like a moron, but don't nearly take someone's noggin off.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I think we actually agree on most of this. Dirty hit and was ugly. I think he actually could have hit him cleanly or at least less dirty. It looked like he put his shoulder into his head something he probably could have avoided. My point is guys haven't learned on either thing. Keeping head up or hitting the head. I'm worried that we may never be clear of these things.

I disagree about being a first round bust. Only been in GR a year and it's only been 4 years since he was drafted. Jimmy Howard didn't make the big club until 6 seasons after being drafted. He's not a bust. It's what the Wings

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Onus is completely on Brendan Smith in this case.
1) Ben Smith had his focus on the net, head up, for all but a fraction of that whole sequence. He glanced down once, for a split second, to ensure puck position. This happens commonly, as players do not have eyes on their chins. Again, his head was not down for an extended amount of time. His shoulder turned as he began to wind up, but from what I can see his head is still up.
2) Brendan Smith clearly targets the head. Having been in that situation as a d-man where I've had to come from my side of the ice to take out an opposing player, there's two alternative things you can do besides putting your shoulder into the guys head: a) Begin skating for a spot a yard or so ahead of the player, and go for the puck instead of the body. If you don't knock the puck off his stick, usually you end up in front of him, bent over, and he runs into you... resulting in what looks like a really sweet clean check. Or, (b) if you have time, turn around and nail him with your butt... sweet, classic, Rob Blake-esque hip check.

I put zero fault on Ben Smith in this case. Not only was Ben's focus on the net (right where it should be), but Brendan had the time and space to make another decision.