Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion

Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion (https://www.antsmarching.org/forum/index.php)
-   The Tailgate (https://www.antsmarching.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=93)
-   -   The NHL Thread (https://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

fonzz41 04-16-2015 12:47 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Look, I'm not trying to trump my opinion over anyone else's, just simply express it.

No penalty is, by definition, a "hockey play". That's why they hand out penalties for it.

Subban comes in swinging hard and recklessly, making it way more severe than a normal slash. Even more than a double minor. It sucks that Stone got hurt, it really does. I hate seeing players get seriously injured, especially in the playoffs. But I don't see enough to warrant a suspension, or even an offense warranting removing the player from the rest of the game.

As a ref, the only reason I would even consider removing him from the game after that would be if the game was already super chippy and I feared more injuries could occur if he continued to play, i.e., Sens players taking dangerous runs at Subban himself out of retribution. If the atmosphere of the game was already such, I might give him the game just to get him outta there and hopefully calm things down. I didn't watch this particular game, so not sure if that was the case. Either way, it's such a fluid thing that changes from game to game.

Dramageek 04-16-2015 12:47 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15912424)
Finally got around to watching the Subban slash, which seems to be the hot topic today. :lol

Matty's ruling (FWIW): 5-minute major. No game misconduct, no suspension. Still very reckless and dangerous though. What makes it a major instead of a minor, IMHO is a) being away from the play, and b) Subban choking up on his stick like that before swinging. No place for it. Sit him down for five.

My favorite part of the whole thing is Subban jumping up and down like a little bitch right after the whistle blew.

:lol That was hilarious. From what I've read, the rule for when there's a slash that causes an injury calls for an automatic 5 and a game misconduct. Dumb or no, that's what the rule says. So the game misconduct was warranted.

As for this being a "hockey play," I kind of disagree. Yes, hockey is violent and injuries will happen. But a slash, by definition, is an illegal play. A penalty. As Denis Lemieux says in Slap Shot, "You don't do dat." I get that slashes will occur in battles for the puck, but that's not the case here. Should he get suspended? I don't know. Subban certainly has a history, but I don't like when the NHL gets arbitrary and reactionary in its justice. If possible, the rules should be clearer, i.e. if you intentionally slash a player away from the play after having choked up on the stick, five minutes, game misconduct, one game suspension (or more for multiple offenses.)

hailtopitt 04-16-2015 12:49 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 15912476)
:lol That was hilarious. From what I've read, the rule for when there's a slash that causes an injury calls for an automatic 5 and a game misconduct. Dumb or no, that's what the rule says. So the game misconduct was warranted.

As for this being a "hockey play," I kind of disagree. Yes, hockey is violent and injuries will happen. But a slash, by definition, is an illegal play. A penalty. As Denis Lemieux says in Slap Shot, "You don't do dat." I get that slashes will occur in battles for the puck, but that's not the case here. Should he get suspended? I don't know. Subban certainly has a history, but I don't like when the NHL gets arbitrary and reactionary in its justice. If possible, the rules should be clearer, i.e. if you intentionally slash a player away from the play after having choked up on the stick, five minutes, game misconduct, one game suspension (or more for multiple offenses.)

shit, you ruined the flow of old school with a logical post

Rebecca De Mornay 04-16-2015 12:49 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 15912471)
It's just fun to hate on the new Brohan/Bron.

haha ouch, that's over the line.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15912475)
Look, I'm not trying to trump my opinion over anyone else's, just simply express it.

No penalty is, by definition, a "hockey play". That's why they hand out penalties for it.

Subban comes in swinging hard and recklessly, making it way more severe than a normal slash. Even more than a double minor. It sucks that Stone got hurt, it really does. I hate seeing players get seriously injured, especially in the playoffs. But I don't see enough to warrant a suspension, or even an offense warranting removing the player from the rest of the game.

As a ref, the only reason I would even consider removing him from the game after that would be if the game was already super chippy and I feared more injuries could occur if he continued to play, i.e., Sens players taking dangerous runs at Subban himself out of retribution. If the atmosphere of the game was already such, I might give him the game just to get him outta there and hopefully calm things down. I didn't watch this particular game, so not sure if that was the case. Either way, it's such a fluid thing that changes from game to game.

it was a VERY chippy game.
that actually may have played into the decision to give him the game misconduct.
i will be surprised if he doesn't get some extra attention in game 2 regardless.

hailtopitt 04-16-2015 12:49 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
never change, guys, never change

but i hope the league does

Rebecca De Mornay 04-16-2015 12:50 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 15912477)
shit, you ruined the flow of old school with a logical post

i mean, he pretty much summed up everything the rest of us have been saying.

barbogast 04-16-2015 12:50 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur (Post 15912457)
There is precedence for a playoff suspension due to a slash (Duncan Keith in 2013 got a game) but that was a slash to the face if I remember correctly. That one was probably worse though.

It WAS way worse, and even THAT only got one game

dmbetc 04-16-2015 12:50 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Melting faster in here than the ice in Staples.

hailtopitt 04-16-2015 12:51 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay (Post 15912480)
i mean, he pretty much summed up everything the rest of us have been saying.


So u agree that there should be a rule change to include a suspension for that act? Please quote where u said that

TMoore4075 04-16-2015 12:51 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15912475)
Look, I'm not trying to trump my opinion over anyone else's, just simply express it.

No penalty is, by definition, a "hockey play". That's why they hand out penalties for it.

Subban comes in swinging hard and recklessly, making it way more severe than a normal slash. Even more than a double minor. It sucks that Stone got hurt, it really does. I hate seeing players get seriously injured, especially in the playoffs. But I don't see enough to warrant a suspension, or even an offense warranting removing the player from the rest of the game.

As a ref, the only reason I would even consider removing him from the game after that would be if the game was already super chippy and I feared more injuries could occur if he continued to play, i.e., Sens players taking dangerous runs at Subban himself out of retribution. If the atmosphere of the game was already such, I might give him the game just to get him outta there and hopefully calm things down. I didn't watch this particular game, so not sure if that was the case. Either way, it's such a fluid thing that changes from game to game.

He was just being reckless. The game was getting crazy in terms of scoring at the time but that's it. He was kicked out because that's the rule. I'm kinda surprised the NHL (being who they are) didn't wait to see if Stone was out or not. Weber wasn't suspended because Zetterberg wasn't hurt. Shaw was suspended because they Coyotes waited as long as possible to say if Smith was playing.

I'd say someone should stand up and fight him in game 2 but PK won't dance and that lovely instigator rule would just hurt the Sens. That's where I give Weber props back in 2012, that when Bert went after him, he accepted.

Rebecca De Mornay 04-16-2015 12:52 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 15912484)
So u agree that there should be a rule change to include a suspension for that act? Please quote where u said that

wut? where is that in his post?

edit: my bad, thought you quoted fonzzz post.

Brohan_Santana 04-16-2015 12:52 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
NHL would rather have Montreal in than Ottawa. Same reason why officials were biased for Chicago. It's a conspiracy and Gary B is behind it!!!

barbogast 04-16-2015 12:52 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 15912476)
:lol That was hilarious. From what I've read, the rule for when there's a slash that causes an injury calls for an automatic 5 and a game misconduct. Dumb or no, that's what the rule says. So the game misconduct was warranted.

As for this being a "hockey play," I kind of disagree. Yes, hockey is violent and injuries will happen. But a slash, by definition, is an illegal play. A penalty. As Denis Lemieux says in Slap Shot, "You don't do dat." I get that slashes will occur in battles for the puck, but that's not the case here. Should he get suspended? I don't know. Subban certainly has a history, but I don't like when the NHL gets arbitrary and reactionary in its justice. If possible, the rules should be clearer, i.e. if you intentionally slash a player away from the play after having choked up on the stick, five minutes, game misconduct, one game suspension (or more for multiple offenses.)

No one is saying it's a hockey play though

jrkarger 04-16-2015 12:53 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
All joking aside, the thing I can't get passed is the fact of he was away from the play and broke the guy's wrist and he's a repeat offender.

Brohan_Santana 04-16-2015 12:53 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 15912439)
Can't do this.

It won't happen but it could be justified in a H2H playoff series

barbogast 04-16-2015 12:54 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brohan_Santana (Post 15912490)
NHL would rather have Montreal in than Ottawa. Same reason why officials were biased for Chicago. It's a conspiracy and Gary B is behind it!!!

You can't actually believe this right?

thechad90000 04-16-2015 12:54 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 15911450)
[emoji38] Chad was super salty last night.

Also [emoji38] at the notion that the refs and Darling are the only reason the Hawks won.

And drunk. I'm still a little salty but I'll survive. Lol

lockman21 04-16-2015 12:54 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 15912472)
Stone was one of the best stories of the 2nd half of the season and now he's out because he got attacked on the ice

i happen to find that disturbing

It sucks, no doubt. But the NHL can't go throwing out suspensions because the guy that got hurt was a "good story".

hailtopitt 04-16-2015 12:55 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay (Post 15912488)
wut? where is that in his post?

edit: my bad, thought you quoted fonzzz post.


Lol haha

TMoore4075 04-16-2015 12:55 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 15912494)
You can't actually believe this right?

Think he's just being a sarcastic.

I have always wondered, what would Bettman want if he had the choice. A big market like Chicago in the Finals, or one like Nashville or Arizona. Chicago is better for ratings but Nashville/Arizona getting there helps the market, but the ratings probably wouldn't be good.

Dramageek 04-16-2015 12:55 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 15912491)
No one is saying it's a hockey play though

Fair enough. I'll clarify. The excuse of "It's hockey, shit happens" has been thrown around. I'm saying that violent sport or no, shit like Subban's slash shouldn't happen.

lockman21 04-16-2015 12:56 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brohan_Santana (Post 15912493)
It won't happen but it could be justified in a H2H playoff series

Have fun with that argument with the NHLPA.

There needs to be a logical step-by-step narrative and reason why guys are suspended and for how long. The length can never, and will never be "however long the other guy is out" because it's WAY too open ended. Guys heal differently, different injuries have different recovery times, etc.

It's completely arbitrary, and would never fly.

barbogast 04-16-2015 12:57 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 15912500)
Fair enough. I'll clarify. The excuse of "It's hockey, shit happens" has been thrown around. I'm saying that violent sport or no, shit like Subban's slash shouldn't happen.

You're right, it shouldn't. But again, he was removed from the game. The play happened at what the early part of period 2? That's a pretty heavy penalty

fonzz41 04-16-2015 12:58 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 15912476)
:lol That was hilarious. From what I've read, the rule for when there's a slash that causes an injury calls for an automatic 5 and a game misconduct. Dumb or no, that's what the rule says. So the game misconduct was warranted.

See this is where my USA Hockey knowledge gets in the way. But yes, you're right. I just looked at the NHL rulebook, which says, "Whenever a major penalty is assessed for slashing, a game misconduct penalty must also be imposed." Thanks for bringing that to my attention, as it is indeed different from the rules I'm accustomed to.

So I suppose yes, I would be giving him a game misconduct because I still wouldn't feel comfortable giving him anything less than a 5-minute penalty.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Rebecca De Mornay (Post 15912478)
it was a VERY chippy game.
that actually may have played into the decision to give him the game misconduct.
i will be surprised if he doesn't get some extra attention in game 2 regardless.

Oh yeah, he'll for sure be getting all sorts of attention.

EDIT: But yeah, to Tim's point, there's no way Subban goes with it.

lockman21 04-16-2015 12:58 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 15912500)
Fair enough. I'll clarify. The excuse of "It's hockey, shit happens" has been thrown around. I'm saying that violent sport or no, shit like Subban's slash shouldn't happen.

That's why he had the 5-minute major/game misconduct. He already was penalized on the ice and essentially missed a game already.

salrx95 04-16-2015 12:59 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
If no injury, then I wouldn't be calling for a game suspension and as I said earlier, I don't usually need to 'factor in if a guy was injured to determine suspension". It was not even close to a hockey play. He raised the stick above his head and came down in that chopping motion exactly where he knew Stone would be most vulnerable. But I was okay with no suspension before the injury news so I am not really hardcore calling that he needs to be now. I just think he should be.

salrx95 04-16-2015 01:02 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brohan_Santana (Post 15912367)
Capitals came out flat. Very flat. No speed through the neutral zone. They will have to find a way to be quicker. Caps had a bunch of great opportunities in the 3rd where the game could have been knotted up but Islanders were in the shooting lanes all night line.

Good news is we saw the ceiling for the Islanders. They won't get any better than that. Caps need to turn it up. Quickly.

Maybe our ceiling defensively but JT had 1 point off that faceoff win and not many chances. When he takes a game over in this series, it will bring another dynamic for us to win a game. And our ceiling was a convincing win so it seems to reason than we can win a game not at our best, by your reason.

lockman21 04-16-2015 01:04 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 15912499)
Think he's just being a sarcastic.

I have always wondered, what would Bettman want if he had the choice. A big market like Chicago in the Finals, or one like Nashville or Arizona. Chicago is better for ratings but Nashville/Arizona getting there helps the market, but the ratings probably wouldn't be good.

I think the only thing we know is that he'd hate somewhere like Winnipeg. Hockey market there is already basically as saturated as it can get, and the national ratings here in the US would be shit. Canadian ratings probably wouldn't be that great either.

barbogast 04-16-2015 01:05 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
I think it's wrong to say the Islanders can't be any better than they were last night, but I think it's correct to say the Caps can't be any worse. I don't expect game 2 to look like that.

I do think they are fucked though

Brohan_Santana 04-16-2015 01:06 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 15912494)
You can't actually believe this right?

I believe Bettman could step in overrule. But he chooses to turn a blind eye.

Is he actively participating in it, no. But he has a lot more power that he chooses not to use.

I hope the Stanley Cup Finals comes down to Nashville vs. Tampa Bay.


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:01 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.14
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
All trademarks and copyrights are owned by their respective owners. Comments are owned by the poster. The rest is owned by antsmarching.org.