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-   -   Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6) (http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=351722)

prdstmnky36 05-29-2019 01:32 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RiotAct (Post 17459367)
I thought the same thing actually... it would be trivial (from a technical perspective) to grab the list of email addresses associated with ticket purchases for the Maryland Heights show. Not sure if there would be any legal "red tape" around sending an email en masse to everyone, though.

Way too many secondary market tickets, or those that switch hands. Youíd be sending a lot of emails to people not even in attendance.

K270 05-29-2019 01:33 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by RiotAct (Post 17459367)
I thought the same thing actually... it would be trivial (from a technical perspective) to grab the list of email addresses associated with ticket purchases for the Maryland Heights show. Not sure if there would be any legal "red tape" around sending an email en masse to everyone, though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz (Post 17459387)
I'm 90% sure this practice would be illegal.

Is it illegal to look at the list to see what areas of the country the crowd came from? If not, look at the list then ask the media in those areas of the country to run the story and police are looking for witnesses.

Bmwm3oz 05-29-2019 01:47 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by K270 (Post 17459390)
Is it illegal to look at the list to see what areas of the country the crowd came from? If not, look at the list then ask the media in those areas of the country to run the story and police are looking for witnesses.

Edit: Never mind. Looks like they could technically get our personal info. Whether or not they can contact us directly.. that's questionable.

TicketMaster privacy policy

'We may share information if we think we have to in order to comply with the law or to protect ourselves. For example, we will share information to respond to a court order or subpoena. We may also share information if a government agency or investigatory body requests it. Or, we might also share information when we are investigating potential fraud.'

https://www.ticketmaster.com/h/privacy.html#share

RiotAct 05-29-2019 02:01 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by prdstmnky36 (Post 17459389)
Way too many secondary market tickets, or those that switch hands. Youíd be sending a lot of emails to people not even in attendance.

that's true... but you'd also be reaching a lot of people who were at the show, and there's always the chance that someone who sold the tix to someone they know (or gave them as a gift) would see the email and ask the recipient "hey, did you see what happened after the show?"

Also, a Maryland Heights weekday show isn't exactly a hot destination, so I feel like the resale market for this one wasn't too good... but who knows.

YouNeverKnow25 05-29-2019 02:03 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
why would sending someone an email ever be illegal, outside of spam

Bmwm3oz 05-29-2019 04:16 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 17459419)
why would sending someone an email ever be illegal, outside of spam

You're right, it can be a breach of contract, but not illegal.

YouNeverKnow25 05-29-2019 04:21 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
and what contract would it be breaching? those terms of service you mentioned are in the case of ticketmaster sharing your email address with someone else...if they emailed you directly, there'd be no breach.

Bmwm3oz 05-29-2019 04:27 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 17459558)
and what contract would it be breaching? those terms of service you mentioned are in the case of ticketmaster sharing your email address with someone else...if they emailed you directly, there'd be no breach.

We could go on and on about this. Requesting or obtaining personal information is different than requesting or obtaining personal information for purposes of contact/communication.

I have no idea what the deal is here with TM nor do I care.. but in general, you could theoretically breach a contract (maybe not the TM one) by obtaining personal information in order to contact someone (other than law enforcement,government etc)

YouNeverKnow25 05-29-2019 04:28 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
you can't "obtain" what you already have. reaching out to people who attended an event that you put on in no way, shape, or form breaks any law or breaches any contract.

Bmwm3oz 05-29-2019 04:31 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 17459563)
you can't "obtain" what you already have. reaching out to people who attended an event that you put on in no way, shape, or form breaks any law or breaches any contract.

:lol. Dude, Iím not gonna argue with you in this thread but you donít know what youíre talking about. Trust me. :).

If you want to pM and debate and debate this, fine. But not doing this here.

snake911 05-29-2019 09:29 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drop2d (Post 17459273)
I think we're all a bit different in that respect... I'd want to know if the guy was ok so I'd probably try to find out after.

That said... something like this, you would think it might reach a national news level. I mean, it's not every day that someone dies at a DMB show. Instead we have endless coverage on Mt. Everest, where, no shit, people died.

Some of this is probably due to spending most of my professional life in EMS, but I've helped a lot of people at concerts or at vehicle collisions while out driving and I've never tried to find out how they did afterwards. I help until the on duty pro's arrive and then I'm satisfied with my part.

Terrible situation on this one though and I'm surprised there isn't any security footage inside the venue. Maybe not of the actual event that happened, but of people going in and out of the area?

Cscottrun 05-29-2019 10:52 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz (Post 17459568)
:lol. Dude, I’m not gonna argue with you in this thread but you don’t know what you’re talking about. Trust me. :).

If you want to pM and debate and debate this, fine. But not doing this here.

What's the difference between TM reaching out to people who bought tickets advising them of what happened and TM sending a thank you for attending email following the show (which they do/have done btw)?

Also, I skimmed that privacy policy provision you cited and that applies to TM sharing information with third parties, not TM contacting its customers directly.

Bmwm3oz 05-30-2019 02:12 AM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Cscottrun (Post 17459836)
What's the difference between TM reaching out to people who bought tickets advising them of what happened and TM sending a thank you for attending email following the show (which they do/have done btw)?

Also, I skimmed that privacy policy provision you cited and that applies to TM sharing information with third parties, not TM contacting its customers directly.

Contracts/policies define the reasons you may be contacted. In other words, TM may contact you using the personal info you provided when it comes to marketing/advertising, information regarding billing, ticket purchases etc. This doesnít give them a right to contact you and advise you to invest in their stock for example.

I know, I pointed that out. They may provide information by request to law enforcement but it didnít cover communication.

spinartist 05-31-2019 12:55 AM

New Details re: Fatal Incident at St. Louis Show
 
Jasen Smith, his wife Darcy, and two friends were seated in the Right/Center section of the Mezzanine, Row PP, seats 22-28 during the show. After the final encore (Ants) at approximately 10:45pm, they remained near their seats for 10 to 15 minutes before departing the seating area as a group. Just short of the venue exit, they realized a t-shirt was accidentally left back at the Row PP seats, and Jasen went to quickly retrieve it while Darcy remained near the venue exit. This was approximately 11:00pm. The incident that resulted in a fatal injury to Jasen would have occurred on the concrete walkway, at the bottom of the lawn and behind Row ZZ of the Right/Center section around 11:03pm, plus or minus 5 minutes.

It is not currently known if Jasen was still on his way to the PP seats when the incident occurred, or if he made it to the seats and was on his way back to Darcy (with or without the shirt is also unknown, as the shirt was never located) when it happened.

This additional information is provided to help you if you were at this show, to possibly recall any detail, no matter how small, that could prove useful to the effort to learn what happened. We are seeking any information at all, not just witnesses to the actual incident, but to anything even slightly out of the ordinary that you may have noticed during this time period. Possible examples: someone running. venue staff behaving aggressively or oddly. an argument, or angry voices that you heard but did not see. someone looking under seats in Row PP. anything that stood out as unusual.

Please PM if you need contact information to reach the investigator assigned to this case. You can remain anonymous if you wish.



photos of Jasen are at: https://www.millardfamilychapels.com/obituaries/Jasen-Smith/#!/PhotosVideos/00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000/dc233e89-3cd9-445c-968c-640a17b50eff

YouNeverKnow25 05-31-2019 01:58 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmwm3oz (Post 17459568)
:lol. Dude, Iím not gonna argue with you in this thread but you donít know what youíre talking about. Trust me. :).

If you want to pM and debate and debate this, fine. But not doing this here.

is that right? in fact, I very much do know what I'm talking about ;)

spinartist 06-06-2019 11:52 PM

Re: New Details re: Fatal Incident at St. Louis Show
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by spinartist (Post 17460693)
Jasen Smith, his wife Darcy, and two friends were seated in the Right/Center section of the Mezzanine, Row PP, seats 22-28 during the show. After the final encore (Ants) at approximately 10:45pm, they remained near their seats for 10 to 15 minutes before departing the seating area as a group. Just short of the venue exit, they realized a t-shirt was accidentally left back at the Row PP seats, and Jasen went to quickly retrieve it while Darcy remained near the venue exit. This was approximately 11:00pm. The incident that resulted in a fatal injury to Jasen would have occurred on the concrete walkway, at the bottom of the lawn and behind Row ZZ of the Right/Center section around 11:03pm, plus or minus 5 minutes.

It is not currently known if Jasen was still on his way to the PP seats when the incident occurred, or if he made it to the seats and was on his way back to Darcy (with or without the shirt is also unknown, as the shirt was never located) when it happened.

This additional information is provided to help you if you were at this show, to possibly recall any detail, no matter how small, that could prove useful to the effort to learn what happened. We are seeking any information at all, not just witnesses to the actual incident, but to anything even slightly out of the ordinary that you may have noticed during this time period. Possible examples: someone running. venue staff behaving aggressively or oddly. an argument, or angry voices that you heard but did not see. someone looking under seats in Row PP. anything that stood out as unusual.

Please PM if you need contact information to reach the investigator assigned to this case. You can remain anonymous if you wish.


photos of Jasen are at: https://www.millardfamilychapels.com...c-640a17b50eff


UPDATE: This remains an active and ongoing investigation. Further refinement of the timeline suggests this incident most likely occurred while Jasen Smith was still attempting to return to his Row PP seats, sometime between 10:59 and 11:09pm. However, authorities are seeking observations and first hand accounts during ANY time period from those who were at this show, with special interest in any unusual, aggressive, or otherwise noticeable behavior from venue staff and/or security staff. Please call Detective Robinson at 314-486-7260. You may remain anonymous if you wish.

karczews41 06-14-2019 06:34 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
The attorney for the family and I have been exchanging voice mails on this, I'm trying to get him steered toward this site/thread in case any developments can be made from people here that may have seen/know anything about this incident. I'll post more detail once I actually speak to him.

Sheik_Yerbutay 06-15-2019 05:24 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
If they know the guys seat location the WH should be able to contact members adjacent to his location and get any info they may have. Just a thought

karczews41 06-16-2019 08:15 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
Based on what I’ve been told it doesn’t appear that they’re looking for an attacker anymore, but that it’s an issue with the venue and possibly it’s staff creating a dangerous condition that could have caused this unfortunate event.

Cptn. Monkeyman 06-16-2019 08:45 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by karczews41 (Post 17473186)
Based on what Iíve been told it doesnít appear that theyíre looking for an attacker anymore, but that itís an issue with the venue and possibly itís staff creating a dangerous condition that could have caused this unfortunate event.

That idea was tossed around earlier. Possibly some equipment had fallen, or something was tripped over? Regardless, itís just such a shame.

ExistenceNow 06-16-2019 09:35 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
What equipment is there hanging between the lawn and the seats that comes down between shows? That doesn't make sense to me.

Venue staff... that makes sense considering how some of those assholes are and considering he was trying make his way back into the seats afterward...

edit: But as to what the lawyer is looking for, it's someone to pay up. That's the venue. Even if he was attacked by a concert goer, they're clearly not finding the guy who did it so then the next step is the venue for letting it happen. Maybe security shouldn't have let him back in. Maybe security should have been watching better etc...

42km 06-16-2019 09:52 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow (Post 17473235)
What equipment is there hanging between the lawn and the seats that comes down between shows? That doesn't make sense to me.

Venue staff... that makes sense considering how some of those assholes are and considering he was trying make his way back into the seats afterward...

edit: But as to what the lawyer is looking for, it's someone to pay up. That's the venue. Even if he was attacked by a concert goer, they're clearly not finding the guy who did it so then the next step is the venue for letting it happen. Maybe security shouldn't have let him back in. Maybe security should have been watching better etc...


Equipment may not have been hanging. Could have been movement of security or concession equipment such as moving beer kegs or fencing on a Gator cart, or a Gator cart itself that was being driven across the venue between the pavilion seats and the lawns. Based on the limited reports I have seen, it would appear to have been caused by a significant blunt force to the skull, which seems to be beyond a punch. Real hard for a fan to bring in an object into the venue capable of causing such damage.


My heart goes out to the family.

prdstmnky36 06-16-2019 10:02 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
I just dont see how something major, like a Gator running into someone, or a big piece of equipment hitting someone, could happen that close to the show ending and no one seeing it or being cooperative on site. Something just doesn't add up here.

ExistenceNow 06-16-2019 10:05 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 42km (Post 17473238)
Equipment may not have been hanging. Could have been movement of security or concession equipment such as moving beer kegs or fencing on a Gator cart, or a Gator cart itself that was being driven across the venue between the pavilion seats and the lawns. Based on the limited reports I have seen, it would appear to have been caused by a significant blunt force to the skull, which seems to be beyond a punch. Real hard for a fan to bring in an object into the venue capable of causing such damage.


My heart goes out to the family.


Gator cart I could see if it hit him and then he hit his head on the sidewalk, but I'd think he'd have a lot of bruising on the front indicating where it hit him. If the only real damage is on the back of his head, I'm not sure how a Gator could do that.



You can definitely kill someone with a punch. Sadly, I read about it happening here on 6th St a few times a year.

daveshookme 06-21-2019 02:30 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow (Post 17473235)
What equipment is there hanging between the lawn and the seats that comes down between shows? That doesn't make sense to me.

Doesn't necessarily have to be something that comes down between shows. Could be a permanent fixture.

ExistenceNow 06-21-2019 04:19 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
So what's the theory? Something fell from the ceiling and killed him then security picked it up and hid it?

daveshookme 06-21-2019 05:43 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow (Post 17477928)
So what's the theory? Something fell from the ceiling and killed him then security picked it up and hid it?

Oh it still doesn't make much more sense, i've no idea.

no-sweat 06-21-2019 09:20 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
No cameras at this place?

davem#36 06-24-2019 02:46 PM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
This sucks.

crazy joe Devola 06-26-2019 11:13 AM

Re: Suspicious Death at DMB show (STL); Looking for Witness (Updated 6/6)
 
I'm struggling to understand how there is zero surveillance within the venue, combined with any cameras still rolling from stage possibly pointing in the direction of the stands, that has caught absolutely nothing of substance. How can it be such a massive venue doesn't have any security cameras rolling??


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