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-   -   The NHL Thread (http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

fonzz41 04-22-2016 01:44 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roose13 (Post 16384565)
Overreact much?

Not once did she say "I don't want you watching hockey," nor does she hate hockey. In fact, she enjoys watching Flyers games with me. But she's away from her family (in Florida and Michigan) and her friends (Michigan) and she hasn't really celebrated on her birthday since being in Jersey (last year we did something the day before because I work). I specifically asked for a night off work so I could spend it with her this time. We're gonna get a nice dinner and then go grab some drinks at a bar that may have the third period of the game on. This could be the last Flyers game I watch tonight until October and I'd rather spend it with her.

So yea, I found true love dude.

Roose, I was totally joshing with you, man. You've talked about your lady in here before and I know you got something special, man. Sorry if it came off as me diminishing that.

Roose13 04-22-2016 01:45 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16384572)
Roose, I was totally joshing with you, man. You've talked about your lady in here before and I know you got something special, man. Sorry if it came off as me diminishing that.

Just that last graph came off that way.

Awesome story though :thumbsup But her team? Woof :lol

~Crashintome89~ 04-22-2016 01:46 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
everyone needs to chill out and drinks some zimas, man.

Roose13 04-22-2016 01:47 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 16384575)
everyone needs to chill out and drinks some zimas, man.

Speaking of which... where the hell is that crazy nut?

hailtopitt 04-22-2016 01:48 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roose13 (Post 16384565)
Overreact much?

Not once did she say "I don't want you watching hockey," nor does she hate hockey. In fact, she enjoys watching Flyers games with me. But she's away from her family (in Florida and Michigan) and her friends (Michigan) and she hasn't really celebrated on her birthday since being in Jersey (last year we did something the day before because I work). I specifically asked for a night off work so I could spend it with her this time. We're gonna get a nice dinner and then go grab some drinks at a bar that may have the third period of the game on. This could be the last Flyers game I watch tonight until October and I'd rather spend it with her.

So yea, I found true love dude.

we were just messin' around man :lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 16384575)
everyone needs to chill out and drinks some zimas, man.

yea i could go for a Zima or 8 right now

~Crashintome89~ 04-22-2016 01:51 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
typical Flyers fan who melts when he hears the year 1975 uttered in his presence.

Roose13 04-22-2016 02:01 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16384579)
we were just messin' around man :lol

I knew that. Just initially his post seemed a little bit more like advice and not joking is all.

fonzz41 04-22-2016 02:08 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roose13 (Post 16384599)
I knew that. Just initially his post seemed a little bit more like advice and not joking is all.

Now you just gotta marry the shit outta her.

salrx95 04-22-2016 02:22 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16384561)
The deep breaths aren't working. Sorry everyone that's had to sit through my rants about the 3-feet-from-the-boards hits, but I'm about to give another one. I also apologize that this might get a little heavy. I rarely talk about the story I'm about to tell, but hell, many of us have been chatting in here for what, 6 years now? This is a pretty cool place.

Playing hockey in high school, I broke a kid's neck. I remember very little of the actual occurrence, I remember going for the puck, I remember focusing on the puck, and I remember an opponent next to me who I kind of shoved as we both went into the corner. Turns out my shove was in his numbers - something I had been taught all my life to never do - and you can imagine the rest. While I can't remember much else, the image of him lying awkwardly, face down on the ice, is seared into my brain forever.

I was (and remain) a very physical player, but I wasn't dirty. I never was out to intentionally hurt someone. I was captain of my team, respectful... Hell, by now you guys know the type of person I am. But regardless, there was a kid lying there with a broken neck. And it was because of me. I was reckless, even for a split second, and the consequences were unimaginable.

The ending of the story is partially happy. After months of therapy, the kid was able to walk again and even gained full control of most of his faculties. He now leads a reasonably normal life. But there's still physical limitations. He leads a fairly normal life, miraculously, but it's not as normal as it could have been had I not done that. We've talked (well, he talked, I bawled like a baby), and he often says that in the end I've put MYSELF through more suffering than he went through. But that's bullshit... I broke his neck. As kind and forgiving as he's been - and as remorseful as I feel - it doesn't change that fact.

Hockey-wise, I was suspended the rest of the season. I accepted that without appeal. It was my junior year, and there were some that moved to have me suspended for the rest of my high school career. In the end, I think only the interference of the kid and his parents on MY behalf, advocating for me despite what I had done, were what kept me there. And guys, I'll tell ya, I wasn't even sure I wanted to play anymore after that. I mean, I broke a kid's neck.

When it comes to these types of hits, intent doesn't matter. Life does. The NHL seems to have cultivated a mentality of "it's not so bad if they don't get hurt." In the heat of a game, when split second decisions are made (like mine), a soft approach like that doesn't work. Orlov got up from his hit, but who won't some day? Is that when action will be taken, after someone is paralyzed for the rest of their life? It's easily the most dangerous type of hit in hockey, and pro-active action needs to be taken now to ensure it doesn't happen. Education is a factor; but I'm a product of USA hockey and can attest that it's already taught at ALL levels of the game. NHL players know how to hit and how not to hit. In my mind, suspensions are a valuable tool. And while I'd feel bad for a good guy like Bellamare to have to sit 10 games or whatever to send a message, I think in the end it's for the good of the game.

So if it seems like I take a hard-line approach to this type of stuff and I'm over the top with wanting 10 and 20 game suspensions, that's why. I broke a kid's neck, and I think about it every single day still. The consequences are there not just for the victim, but for the hitter too (not that they - me - deserve an equal amount of pity as the victim) and I won't shut up about getting that out of my game.

That's deep man. I'm sorry you and that kid had to go through all of that.

aeroshady 04-22-2016 02:43 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16384526)
That awkward moment when you realize the Tampa Bay Lightning follow you on twitter.... fuckers.

:lol:lol

That amazing.

aeroshady 04-22-2016 02:50 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16384561)
The deep breaths aren't working. Sorry everyone that's had to sit through my rants about the 3-feet-from-the-boards hits, but I'm about to give another one. I also apologize that this might get a little heavy. I rarely talk about the story I'm about to tell, but hell, many of us have been chatting in here for what, 6 years now? This is a pretty cool place.

Playing hockey in high school, I broke a kid's neck. I remember very little of the actual occurrence, I remember going for the puck, I remember focusing on the puck, and I remember an opponent next to me who I kind of shoved as we both went into the corner. Turns out my shove was in his numbers - something I had been taught all my life to never do - and you can imagine the rest. While I can't remember much else, the image of him lying awkwardly, face down on the ice, is seared into my brain forever.

I was (and remain) a very physical player, but I wasn't dirty. I never was out to intentionally hurt someone. I was captain of my team, respectful... Hell, by now you guys know the type of person I am. But regardless, there was a kid lying there with a broken neck. And it was because of me. I was reckless, even for a split second, and the consequences were unimaginable.

The ending of the story is partially happy. After months of therapy, the kid was able to walk again and even gained full control of most of his faculties. He now leads a reasonably normal life. But there's still physical limitations. He leads a fairly normal life, miraculously, but it's not as normal as it could have been had I not done that. We've talked (well, he talked, I bawled like a baby), and he often says that in the end I've put MYSELF through more suffering than he went through. But that's bullshit... I broke his neck. As kind and forgiving as he's been - and as remorseful as I feel - it doesn't change that fact.

Hockey-wise, I was suspended the rest of the season. I accepted that without appeal. It was my junior year, and there were some that moved to have me suspended for the rest of my high school career. In the end, I think only the interference of the kid and his parents on MY behalf, advocating for me despite what I had done, were what kept me there. And guys, I'll tell ya, I wasn't even sure I wanted to play anymore after that. I mean, I broke a kid's neck.

When it comes to these types of hits, intent doesn't matter. Life does. The NHL seems to have cultivated a mentality of "it's not so bad if they don't get hurt." In the heat of a game, when split second decisions are made (like mine), a soft approach like that doesn't work. Orlov got up from his hit, but who won't some day? Is that when action will be taken, after someone is paralyzed for the rest of their life? It's easily the most dangerous type of hit in hockey, and pro-active action needs to be taken now to ensure it doesn't happen. Education is a factor; but I'm a product of USA hockey and can attest that it's already taught at ALL levels of the game. NHL players know how to hit and how not to hit. In my mind, suspensions are a valuable tool. And while I'd feel bad for a good guy like Bellamare to have to sit 10 games or whatever to send a message, I think in the end it's for the good of the game.

So if it seems like I take a hard-line approach to this type of stuff and I'm over the top with wanting 10 and 20 game suspensions, that's why. I broke a kid's neck, and I think about it every single day still. The consequences are there not just for the victim, but for the hitter too (not that they - me - deserve an equal amount of pity as the victim) and I won't shut up about getting that out of my game.

What a post man. Thanks for sharing.

I remember in highschool one of our defenseman shot a puck that hit a goalie in the neck and seriously injured him. I remember being on the ice just watching him on the ground with a blanket over him waiting for the ambulance to show up for 20 minutes and thinking...he might die. Now all highschool goalies and players where neck protectors. Change is not a bad thing when it comes to safety of players.

Lcsulla 04-22-2016 03:04 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16384526)
That awkward moment when you realize the Tampa Bay Lightning follow you on twitter.... fuckers.

:lol Better the team than the fans I guess.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16384529)
It doesn't matter. What matters is how dangerous and unneccesary that hit is. Orlov was beyond vulnerable. Do I think Bellemare intended to injure? Very much no. But that doesn't negate how dangerous the play is.

I am aware it was a dangerous play while Orlov was in that position but as I have said, hits like that happen rather often behind the net.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16384561)
The deep breaths aren't working. Sorry everyone that's had to sit through my rants about the 3-feet-from-the-boards hits, but I'm about to give another one. I also apologize that this might get a little heavy. I rarely talk about the story I'm about to tell, but hell, many of us have been chatting in here for what, 6 years now? This is a pretty cool place.

Playing hockey in high school, I broke a kid's neck. I remember very little of the actual occurrence, I remember going for the puck, I remember focusing on the puck, and I remember an opponent next to me who I kind of shoved as we both went into the corner. Turns out my shove was in his numbers - something I had been taught all my life to never do - and you can imagine the rest. While I can't remember much else, the image of him lying awkwardly, face down on the ice, is seared into my brain forever.

I was (and remain) a very physical player, but I wasn't dirty. I never was out to intentionally hurt someone. I was captain of my team, respectful... Hell, by now you guys know the type of person I am. But regardless, there was a kid lying there with a broken neck. And it was because of me. I was reckless, even for a split second, and the consequences were unimaginable.

The ending of the story is partially happy. After months of therapy, the kid was able to walk again and even gained full control of most of his faculties. He now leads a reasonably normal life. But there's still physical limitations. He leads a fairly normal life, miraculously, but it's not as normal as it could have been had I not done that. We've talked (well, he talked, I bawled like a baby), and he often says that in the end I've put MYSELF through more suffering than he went through. But that's bullshit... I broke his neck. As kind and forgiving as he's been - and as remorseful as I feel - it doesn't change that fact.

Hockey-wise, I was suspended the rest of the season. I accepted that without appeal. It was my junior year, and there were some that moved to have me suspended for the rest of my high school career. In the end, I think only the interference of the kid and his parents on MY behalf, advocating for me despite what I had done, were what kept me there. And guys, I'll tell ya, I wasn't even sure I wanted to play anymore after that. I mean, I broke a kid's neck.

When it comes to these types of hits, intent doesn't matter. Life does. The NHL seems to have cultivated a mentality of "it's not so bad if they don't get hurt." In the heat of a game, when split second decisions are made (like mine), a soft approach like that doesn't work. Orlov got up from his hit, but who won't some day? Is that when action will be taken, after someone is paralyzed for the rest of their life? It's easily the most dangerous type of hit in hockey, and pro-active action needs to be taken now to ensure it doesn't happen. Education is a factor; but I'm a product of USA hockey and can attest that it's already taught at ALL levels of the game. NHL players know how to hit and how not to hit. In my mind, suspensions are a valuable tool. And while I'd feel bad for a good guy like Bellamare to have to sit 10 games or whatever to send a message, I think in the end it's for the good of the game.

So if it seems like I take a hard-line approach to this type of stuff and I'm over the top with wanting 10 and 20 game suspensions, that's why. I broke a kid's neck, and I think about it every single day still. The consequences are there not just for the victim, but for the hitter too (not that they - me - deserve an equal amount of pity as the victim) and I won't shut up about getting that out of my game.

Oh man, I am so sorry you both had to go through that. I can hardly imagine how you must have felt and still feel. Hell I still feel guilty for taking a pass in HS gym class and volleying the ball at the net only to look up and realize there was some girl playing keeper and the reaction shot I took broke her nose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 16384564)
Good lord, you need to understand hockey better.

There's no question that Bellemare wasn't trying to hurt the guy. There's no question that Orlov also was in a vulernable position when the hit occur. There's also absolutely no question that Bellemare should be hitting a guy in the numbers. Nevertheless, all of these things happened. At the end of the day, Bellemare got what he deserved. The punishment of a five minute major boarding penalty and a one game suspension was warranted. If Bellemare had any kind of history or Orlov was seriously injured, the punishment would have been more severe.

Pretty sure I understand hockey plenty well after playing all through HS. I know he was not trying to hurt him and that you shouldn't hit between the numbers. That was all drilled into my head since pee-wee and mighty mite games. Of course the call was roughing, what I question is the suspension.

All that said tonight should be a good few games with the Caps, Stars and Sharks trying to close out a series while the Islanders battle the Panthers to go up 3 games to 2!

fonzz41 04-22-2016 04:33 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16384569)
ugh sorry to hear about your incident in high school. i can't even imagine

but you already know i'm right in line with your thinking on these plays. the league needs to do everything in their power to eliminate these hits, period. and if that means 10-20 games suspensions, or more, then so be it. hockey can survive without these plays.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salrx95 (Post 16384645)
That's deep man. I'm sorry you and that kid had to go through all of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 16384688)
What a post man. Thanks for sharing.

I remember in highschool one of our defenseman shot a puck that hit a goalie in the neck and seriously injured him. I remember being on the ice just watching him on the ground with a blanket over him waiting for the ambulance to show up for 20 minutes and thinking...he might die. Now all highschool goalies and players where neck protectors. Change is not a bad thing when it comes to safety of players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16384708)
Oh man, I am so sorry you both had to go through that. I can hardly imagine how you must have felt and still feel. Hell I still feel guilty for taking a pass in HS gym class and volleying the ball at the net only to look up and realize there was some girl playing keeper and the reaction shot I took broke her nose.

Thanks guys. Looking back over the post I was like, damn son, you coulda just told 'em you broke a neck and left it at that! But anyways, hopefully it adds some context as to why I'm so adamant about the dangers of these types of hits.

barbogast 04-22-2016 04:36 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16384561)
The deep breaths aren't working. Sorry everyone that's had to sit through my rants about the 3-feet-from-the-boards hits, but I'm about to give another one. I also apologize that this might get a little heavy. I rarely talk about the story I'm about to tell, but hell, many of us have been chatting in here for what, 6 years now? This is a pretty cool place.

Playing hockey in high school, I broke a kid's neck. I remember very little of the actual occurrence, I remember going for the puck, I remember focusing on the puck, and I remember an opponent next to me who I kind of shoved as we both went into the corner. Turns out my shove was in his numbers - something I had been taught all my life to never do - and you can imagine the rest. While I can't remember much else, the image of him lying awkwardly, face down on the ice, is seared into my brain forever.

I was (and remain) a very physical player, but I wasn't dirty. I never was out to intentionally hurt someone. I was captain of my team, respectful... Hell, by now you guys know the type of person I am. But regardless, there was a kid lying there with a broken neck. And it was because of me. I was reckless, even for a split second, and the consequences were unimaginable.

The ending of the story is partially happy. After months of therapy, the kid was able to walk again and even gained full control of most of his faculties. He now leads a reasonably normal life. But there's still physical limitations. He leads a fairly normal life, miraculously, but it's not as normal as it could have been had I not done that. We've talked (well, he talked, I bawled like a baby), and he often says that in the end I've put MYSELF through more suffering than he went through. But that's bullshit... I broke his neck. As kind and forgiving as he's been - and as remorseful as I feel - it doesn't change that fact.

Hockey-wise, I was suspended the rest of the season. I accepted that without appeal. It was my junior year, and there were some that moved to have me suspended for the rest of my high school career. In the end, I think only the interference of the kid and his parents on MY behalf, advocating for me despite what I had done, were what kept me there. And guys, I'll tell ya, I wasn't even sure I wanted to play anymore after that. I mean, I broke a kid's neck.

When it comes to these types of hits, intent doesn't matter. Life does. The NHL seems to have cultivated a mentality of "it's not so bad if they don't get hurt." In the heat of a game, when split second decisions are made (like mine), a soft approach like that doesn't work. Orlov got up from his hit, but who won't some day? Is that when action will be taken, after someone is paralyzed for the rest of their life? It's easily the most dangerous type of hit in hockey, and pro-active action needs to be taken now to ensure it doesn't happen. Education is a factor; but I'm a product of USA hockey and can attest that it's already taught at ALL levels of the game. NHL players know how to hit and how not to hit. In my mind, suspensions are a valuable tool. And while I'd feel bad for a good guy like Bellamare to have to sit 10 games or whatever to send a message, I think in the end it's for the good of the game.

So if it seems like I take a hard-line approach to this type of stuff and I'm over the top with wanting 10 and 20 game suspensions, that's why. I broke a kid's neck, and I think about it every single day still. The consequences are there not just for the victim, but for the hitter too (not that they - me - deserve an equal amount of pity as the victim) and I won't shut up about getting that out of my game.

This post should be forwarded to the nhl dops

Heavy indeed. I can't even imagine what going through something like that must be, for both you and the injured man.

Certainly a very insightful post, thanks for sharing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16384708)
I am aware it was a dangerous play while Orlov was in that position but as I have said, hits like that happen rather often behind the net.

Pretty sure I understand hockey plenty well after playing all through HS. I know he was not trying to hurt him and that you shouldn't hit between the numbers. That was all drilled into my head since pee-wee and mighty mite games. Of course the call was roughing, what I question is the suspension.

I think you're misssing the point of what everyone else is saying. No one is saying these incidents are uncommon. In fact, we're saying they are all too common and the league's non chalant attitude towards them have need into many fans, seemingly including you, that think a) no injury, so no biggie and b) these hits happen a lot, so no biggie. It's also been ingratiated into the game of the players themselves because there is no real consequence for making a play of that nature.

That's a problem.

To be crystal clear, what we're saying is intent does not matter. Not even a little bit. As a hitter, you have to be aware of the hit you're about to give and be responsible enough to pull up if necessary. If you cannot, and therefore deliver an incredibly dangerous (like life changing type dangerous) hit, you should have to pay a severe consequence. What we mean by severe consequence: 10+ games, the first time. Tiny one game suspensions don't really deliver the message.

Why on earth you are attempting to defend a hit like this one is beyond me.

But then again you also said you can understand why Duncan Keath swung his stick like he did, so maybe I'm just talking to a brick walk here.

dmbetc 04-22-2016 04:49 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16384561)
The deep breaths aren't working. Sorry everyone that's had to sit through my rants about the 3-feet-from-the-boards hits, but I'm about to give another one. I also apologize that this might get a little heavy. I rarely talk about the story I'm about to tell, but hell, many of us have been chatting in here for what, 6 years now? This is a pretty cool place.

Playing hockey in high school, I broke a kid's neck. I remember very little of the actual occurrence, I remember going for the puck, I remember focusing on the puck, and I remember an opponent next to me who I kind of shoved as we both went into the corner. Turns out my shove was in his numbers - something I had been taught all my life to never do - and you can imagine the rest. While I can't remember much else, the image of him lying awkwardly, face down on the ice, is seared into my brain forever.

I was (and remain) a very physical player, but I wasn't dirty. I never was out to intentionally hurt someone. I was captain of my team, respectful... Hell, by now you guys know the type of person I am. But regardless, there was a kid lying there with a broken neck. And it was because of me. I was reckless, even for a split second, and the consequences were unimaginable.

The ending of the story is partially happy. After months of therapy, the kid was able to walk again and even gained full control of most of his faculties. He now leads a reasonably normal life. But there's still physical limitations. He leads a fairly normal life, miraculously, but it's not as normal as it could have been had I not done that. We've talked (well, he talked, I bawled like a baby), and he often says that in the end I've put MYSELF through more suffering than he went through. But that's bullshit... I broke his neck. As kind and forgiving as he's been - and as remorseful as I feel - it doesn't change that fact.

Hockey-wise, I was suspended the rest of the season. I accepted that without appeal. It was my junior year, and there were some that moved to have me suspended for the rest of my high school career. In the end, I think only the interference of the kid and his parents on MY behalf, advocating for me despite what I had done, were what kept me there. And guys, I'll tell ya, I wasn't even sure I wanted to play anymore after that. I mean, I broke a kid's neck.

When it comes to these types of hits, intent doesn't matter. Life does. The NHL seems to have cultivated a mentality of "it's not so bad if they don't get hurt." In the heat of a game, when split second decisions are made (like mine), a soft approach like that doesn't work. Orlov got up from his hit, but who won't some day? Is that when action will be taken, after someone is paralyzed for the rest of their life? It's easily the most dangerous type of hit in hockey, and pro-active action needs to be taken now to ensure it doesn't happen. Education is a factor; but I'm a product of USA hockey and can attest that it's already taught at ALL levels of the game. NHL players know how to hit and how not to hit. In my mind, suspensions are a valuable tool. And while I'd feel bad for a good guy like Bellamare to have to sit 10 games or whatever to send a message, I think in the end it's for the good of the game.

So if it seems like I take a hard-line approach to this type of stuff and I'm over the top with wanting 10 and 20 game suspensions, that's why. I broke a kid's neck, and I think about it every single day still. The consequences are there not just for the victim, but for the hitter too (not that they - me - deserve an equal amount of pity as the victim) and I won't shut up about getting that out of my game.

Matty! :hug:hug Thank you for opening up about this story.

The bolded is the most important, yet basic, statement. I don't care how tough, big and trained the NHL players are. One wrong hit into to boards can paralyze, or worse, kill someone. That is not something to be taken lightly, which the league currently does.

Here's more :hug:hug:hug:hug too.

fonzz41 04-22-2016 04:51 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16384817)
This post should be forwarded to the nhl dops

Heavy indeed. I can't even imagine what going through something like that must be, for both you and the injured man.

Certainly a very insightful post, thanks for sharing.



I think you're misssing the point of what everyone else is saying. No one is saying these incidents are uncommon. In fact, we're saying they are all too common and the league's non chalant attitude towards them have need into many fans, seemingly including you, that think a) no injury, so no biggie and b) these hits happen a lot, so no biggie. It's also been ingratiated into the game of the players themselves because there is no real consequence for making a play of that nature.

That's a problem.

To be crystal clear, what we're saying is intent does not matter. Not even a little bit. As a hitter, you have to be aware of the hit you're about to give and be responsible enough to pull up if necessary. If you cannot, and therefore deliver an incredibly dangerous (like life changing type dangerous) hit, you should have to pay a severe consequence. What we mean by severe consequence: 10+ games, the first time. Tiny one game suspensions don't really deliver the message.

Why on earth you are attempting to defend a hit like this one is beyond me.

But then again you also said you can understand why Duncan Keath swung his stick like he did, so maybe I'm just talking to a brick walk here.

Well said. Agree completely, obviously.

As horrendous as some hockey injuries are, many of them you can come back from. A puck to the face, a broken limb, even a concussion to a certain degree. Not minimizing those types of injuries. But a broken neck? You don't come back from that.

salrx95 04-22-2016 05:02 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dmbetc (Post 16384829)
Matty! :hug:hug Thank you for opening up about this story.

The bolded is the most important, yet basic, statement. I don't care how tough, big and trained the NHL players are. One wrong hit into to boards can paralyze, or worse, kill someone. That is not something to be taken lightly, which the league currently does.

Here's more :hug:hug:hug:hug too.

I definitely think there is more respect for one another in today's game than there was 20-30 years ago but that doesn't mean it can't get better.

Lcsulla 04-22-2016 05:21 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16384817)
I think you're misssing the point of what everyone else is saying. No one is saying these incidents are uncommon. In fact, we're saying they are all too common and the league's non chalant attitude towards them have need into many fans, seemingly including you, that think a) no injury, so no biggie and b) these hits happen a lot, so no biggie. It's also been ingratiated into the game of the players themselves because there is no real consequence for making a play of that nature.

That's a problem.

To be crystal clear, what we're saying is intent does not matter. Not even a little bit. As a hitter, you have to be aware of the hit you're about to give and be responsible enough to pull up if necessary. If you cannot, and therefore deliver an incredibly dangerous (like life changing type dangerous) hit, you should have to pay a severe consequence. What we mean by severe consequence: 10+ games, the first time. Tiny one game suspensions don't really deliver the message.

Why on earth you are attempting to defend a hit like this one is beyond me.

But then again you also said you can understand why Duncan Keath swung his stick like he did, so maybe I'm just talking to a brick walk here.

Nah, you are not talking to a brick wall, I do get it and agree. When I stuck up for Keith I did it not because I thought what he did was right but because I know in sports you can get pissed off very quickly and react on the spot while not meaning to harm someone. It was the length of the suspension I was griping about, not that he was given a suspension. I am sure anyone who has played sports has let their emotions get the better of them one time or another and done something they regretted later - breaking up a double play, hip checking someone, slide tackling someone in soccer, flattening a QB, running into a catcher, etc, etc.

I agree they need to do more to prevent this stuff but until they do start cracking down better we are going to see round hits and such.

hailtopitt 04-22-2016 05:27 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16384853)
It was the length of the suspension I was griping about, not that he was given a suspension.

I agree they need to do more to prevent this stuff but until they do start cracking down better we are going to see round hits and such.

to the bolded: :confused so you are ok with a suspension being given but the length (1 game) was too long??? that doesn't make sense

and to the rest....if you agree they need to do more to prevent this stuff, how do you propose they do that without suspending people?

you're contradicting yourself, bud

barbogast 04-22-2016 05:30 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16384860)
to the bolded: :confused so you are ok with a suspension being given but the length (1 game) was too long??? that doesn't make sense

and to the rest....if you agree they need to do more to prevent this stuff, how do you propose they do that without suspending people?

you're contradicting yourself, bud

I think the suspension length he was referring to was with regards to the Keath incident

He's stated more than once he doesn't believe Bellemare should have been suspended at all

Though I'm pretty sure originally he said Keath shouldn't have been either

Overall I agree he seems kind of contradictory on this

barbogast 04-22-2016 05:33 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Seriously, Lcsulla, what should the answer be if not suspensions? You've absolutely said Bellemare's play did not warrant a suspension. Then you said the nhl should do more to crack down on this stuff.

So what do you propose?

Dramageek 04-22-2016 05:42 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16384561)
The deep breaths aren't working. Sorry everyone that's had to sit through my rants about the 3-feet-from-the-boards hits, but I'm about to give another one. I also apologize that this might get a little heavy. I rarely talk about the story I'm about to tell, but hell, many of us have been chatting in here for what, 6 years now? This is a pretty cool place.

Playing hockey in high school, I broke a kid's neck. I remember very little of the actual occurrence, I remember going for the puck, I remember focusing on the puck, and I remember an opponent next to me who I kind of shoved as we both went into the corner. Turns out my shove was in his numbers - something I had been taught all my life to never do - and you can imagine the rest. While I can't remember much else, the image of him lying awkwardly, face down on the ice, is seared into my brain forever.

I was (and remain) a very physical player, but I wasn't dirty. I never was out to intentionally hurt someone. I was captain of my team, respectful... Hell, by now you guys know the type of person I am. But regardless, there was a kid lying there with a broken neck. And it was because of me. I was reckless, even for a split second, and the consequences were unimaginable.

The ending of the story is partially happy. After months of therapy, the kid was able to walk again and even gained full control of most of his faculties. He now leads a reasonably normal life. But there's still physical limitations. He leads a fairly normal life, miraculously, but it's not as normal as it could have been had I not done that. We've talked (well, he talked, I bawled like a baby), and he often says that in the end I've put MYSELF through more suffering than he went through. But that's bullshit... I broke his neck. As kind and forgiving as he's been - and as remorseful as I feel - it doesn't change that fact.

Hockey-wise, I was suspended the rest of the season. I accepted that without appeal. It was my junior year, and there were some that moved to have me suspended for the rest of my high school career. In the end, I think only the interference of the kid and his parents on MY behalf, advocating for me despite what I had done, were what kept me there. And guys, I'll tell ya, I wasn't even sure I wanted to play anymore after that. I mean, I broke a kid's neck.

When it comes to these types of hits, intent doesn't matter. Life does. The NHL seems to have cultivated a mentality of "it's not so bad if they don't get hurt." In the heat of a game, when split second decisions are made (like mine), a soft approach like that doesn't work. Orlov got up from his hit, but who won't some day? Is that when action will be taken, after someone is paralyzed for the rest of their life? It's easily the most dangerous type of hit in hockey, and pro-active action needs to be taken now to ensure it doesn't happen. Education is a factor; but I'm a product of USA hockey and can attest that it's already taught at ALL levels of the game. NHL players know how to hit and how not to hit. In my mind, suspensions are a valuable tool. And while I'd feel bad for a good guy like Bellamare to have to sit 10 games or whatever to send a message, I think in the end it's for the good of the game.

So if it seems like I take a hard-line approach to this type of stuff and I'm over the top with wanting 10 and 20 game suspensions, that's why. I broke a kid's neck, and I think about it every single day still. The consequences are there not just for the victim, but for the hitter too (not that they - me - deserve an equal amount of pity as the victim) and I won't shut up about getting that out of my game.

I am very sorry you had to go through this, man. Thanks for sharing. It is important for people hear stuff like this.

I agree with everything Barbs had to say about this.

On another hockey forum, the general refrain was that it was a bad hit, but Orlov put himself in a bad position by bending/falling down. Bellarme isn't a dirty player and didn't try to hurt Orlov, and so forth. That all may be true. But what Matty is saying here is that all of that is entirely beside the point. Hits to the numbers on the back are dangerous as hell, and the NHL should be taking whatever action it can to try to prevent them. Players should have the awareness and do what they can to avoid making such hits. What h2p and others are saying is that perhaps the best way to do so is to have harsh consequences, such as a 5:00 major and an automatic suspension for such hits, regardless of intent or a player's history.

hailtopitt 04-22-2016 05:51 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16384865)
Seriously, Lcsulla, what should the answer be if not suspensions? You've absolutely said Bellemare's play did not warrant a suspension. Then you said the nhl should do more to crack down on this stuff.

So what do you propose?

this is what i was driving at :thumbsup

JRS1386 04-22-2016 05:58 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
So I'm not going to quote the Matty story but damn man get a hug from one of your eight wives for me. Thanks for sharing

~Crashintome89~ 04-22-2016 06:11 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRS1386 (Post 16384886)
So I'm not going to quote the Matty story but damn man get a hug from one of your eight wives for me. Thanks for sharing

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Climb2safety 04-22-2016 06:34 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Here's to bouncing back and closing this mother out.

barbogast 04-22-2016 06:38 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
I don't even know what to think heading into the game tonight

I really want to believe this team will get it done. I know they're definitely good enough to

But if they lose. Oh boy

fonzz41 04-22-2016 06:39 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dmbetc (Post 16384829)
Matty! :hug:hug Thank you for opening up about this story.

The bolded is the most important, yet basic, statement. I don't care how tough, big and trained the NHL players are. One wrong hit into to boards can paralyze, or worse, kill someone. That is not something to be taken lightly, which the league currently does.

Here's more :hug:hug:hug:hug too.

Thanks buddy. :hug I wasn't expecting this kind of support from you all, just simply wanted to heavily illustrate a point. That said, it's very appreciated.
Quote:

Originally Posted by salrx95 (Post 16384837)
I definitely think there is more respect for one another in today's game than there was 20-30 years ago but that doesn't mean it can't get better.

For sure. I agree in thinking there is a lot of respect around the NHL. It's just getting players to be more cognizant of what they're doing. For me, it took that experience. I was scared to even play hockey again, and even more scared to hit guys when I came back. But once I got more comfortable back out on the ice, I was able to find that balance and awareness. It can be done.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 16384870)
I am very sorry you had to go through this, man. Thanks for sharing. It is important for people hear stuff like this.

I agree with everything Barbs had to say about this.

On another hockey forum, the general refrain was that it was a bad hit, but Orlov put himself in a bad position by bending/falling down. Bellarme isn't a dirty player and didn't try to hurt Orlov, and so forth. That all may be true. But what Matty is saying here is that all of that is entirely beside the point. Hits to the numbers on the back are dangerous as hell, and the NHL should be taking whatever action it can to try to prevent them. Players should have the awareness and do what they can to avoid making such hits. What h2p and others are saying is that perhaps the best way to do so is to have harsh consequences, such as a 5:00 major and an automatic suspension for such hits, regardless of intent or a player's history.

Thank you.

And I'm sure everyone is getting a little sick of the Orlov thing, but I'd just point out to those others that you're mentioning that Orlov did nothing wrong. He was skating in quickly to the corner and was low because he was coming to a stop. He's in a perfectly acceptable position.
Quote:

Originally Posted by JRS1386 (Post 16384886)
So I'm not going to quote the Matty story but damn man get a hug from one of your eight wives for me. Thanks for sharing

Thanks man. I'll even let you pick which one!
http://jobbiecrew.com/wp-content/upl...hick-59001.jpg

barbogast 04-22-2016 06:41 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16384927)
Thanks man. I'll even let you pick which one!
http://jobbiecrew.com/wp-content/upl...hick-59001.jpg

Yep I just converted

JRS1386 04-22-2016 06:42 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16384924)
I don't even know what to think heading into the game tonight

I really want to believe this team will get it done. I know they're definitely good enough to

But if they lose. Oh boy

Ain't happening but I hope for your pain and worrying to extend past tonight


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