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-   -   The NHL Thread (http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

TMoore4075 03-28-2016 01:49 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
We know Flyers fans hang on 2007. Look at the drop off after Kane...I don't know most of those guys in the first round.

Lcsulla 03-28-2016 01:50 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 16349415)
In other news, the Caps can clinch their second President's Trophy tonight with a point against the Jackets, all but guaranteeing a first round exit. ;)

And looking at the standings, I realized I don't actually know how playoff seeding works with the current divisional format. Is it the top seeds in each division get the Wild Card teams, then the divisional opponents play each other in Round 1?

Pretty confident huh? :lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 16349461)
I feel like Hank gets taunted more than most goalies because everyone knows how good he is and how integral he is to the Rangers success.

Yeah. sort of like when opposing fans would razz Mariano Rivera if he gave up a run. They did not dislike the guy, they knew how talented he was and just wanted to get themselves heard and rub it in a bit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 16349510)
#shouldhavedraftedtoewsandkane

One of the benefits of having an awful team for a while. I am no scout but I am not sure why Toews was not the #1 pick (he was 3) that year over Johnson and Staal, Maybe the Blues needed a D man more than a offensive threat but the Pens botched that one good because Toews is clearly a better center than Staal. Kane, different story, he was far and away the best player in that (frankly lousy group) draft but I doubt anyone, even the most skilled scout would have predicted how effective those two guys would be - 3 cups and counting - nice to know they are both signed for the next 8 years along with Keith and Seabrook!

Lcsulla 03-28-2016 01:53 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16349612)
Jordan Staal was an integral part of the Pens' 2009 cup team

Absolutely he was, he is a great player but not quite as effective as Toews IMO.

hailtopitt 03-28-2016 01:56 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16349647)
Absolutely he was, he is a great player but not quite as effective as Toews IMO.

i agree but like i said, hindsight is 20/20

Staal helped them win a Cup so im not sure how you can say the Pens "botched" that pick

Hawks have just done a better job building a deep team since then

aeroshady 03-28-2016 02:00 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16349627)
I'm just not sure how. I mean have you watched when Holtby or Fleury gives up a goal at MSG? It's literally the same reaction that Lundqvist gets when gives one up at Consol or Verizon

Alright, I was going to move on from this but fine, ill be kind of be a dick about it. I have not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 NHL arenas within an hour and a half from where I live. I have seen a home game at all 4 of those arenas in the last year. Also, add on the United center in Chicago as I went to a game there in the last two weeks. I also lived 3 minutes from TD Garden in Boston for 3 years and saw the Rangers play the Bruins there several times. With that said, Hank gets taunted WAY more than Halak, Schneider, Mason or anyone else that has played in net for those teams. It is not even close, I have been to the games to back this up.

Hank gives up one goal on the road, and the home fans are on him instantly. They also boo him like crazing when the starting lineups are announced. For Mason or Schneider or Halak, they need to give up 2-3 before they start hearing it from the MSG fans or whatever home fans they play on the road...if they even hear anything at all.

You named Holtby and Fleury as your examples, which actually proves the point I was making. Both are or have been elite goalies at some point in their career and are expected to be major parts of their team. The point I was making to start the day was that the great players get the most shit from away fans because they earned it.

Is anyone in here really arguing that Hank has not been one of, if not the best goalie in the league of the last 10-12 years? Or more importantly, is anyone really arguing that he is not 100% the Rangers most important player???

Lcsulla 03-28-2016 02:04 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16349658)
i agree but like i said, hindsight is 20/20

Staal helped them win a Cup so im not sure how you can say the Pens "botched" that pick

Hawks have just done a better job building a deep team since then

Completely agree, Staal was a great pick and was an integral part of winning that cup. Like you said, hindsight is 20/20 and the Hawks are deep for the foreseeable future. Not knocking Staal at all, he is a great player but I think Toews is just a better center both on the dot and in providing offense - passing, shooting, killing penalties and helping out on defense. Everything a team wants in a captain.

hailtopitt 03-28-2016 02:04 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
no one is arguing Hank's credentials or importance

but its just a fact that, especially nearing playoff time, any goalie with a 2 syllable name gets taunted when he is having a rough night or gives up a softy

no need to be in an arena to know this. TV is just fine

Dramageek 03-28-2016 02:05 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16349638)
Pretty confident huh? :lol



Yeah. sort of like when opposing fans would razz Mariano Rivera if he gave up a run. They did not dislike the guy, they knew how talented he was and just wanted to get themselves heard and rub it in a bit.



One of the benefits of having an awful team for a while. I am no scout but I am not sure why Toews was not the #1 pick (he was 3) that year over Johnson and Staal, Maybe the Blues needed a D man more than a offensive threat but the Pens botched that one good because Toews is clearly a better center than Staal. Kane, different story, he was far and away the best player in that (frankly lousy group) draft but I doubt anyone, even the most skilled scout would have predicted how effective those two guys would be - 3 cups and counting - nice to know they are both signed for the next 8 years along with Keith and Seabrook!

:lol Nah, just kidding around, sort of. The last time the Caps won the President's Trophy they did get bounced in Round 1 by the uppity Montreal Canadians.

Toewes is fantastic, obviously. But I agree with H2P in that it is hard to say the Pens botched the pick given that Staal was integral in helping them win a Cup. Also, the Pens ended up with two superstar centers, so one of them would likely be gone by now had they drafted Toewes. What it comes down to is that the Hawks have done a much better job of putting supporting talent around their superstars.

That's why I have to envy the Hawks to an extent. The Hawks and the Pens are similar in the sense that they both sucked hard during the early 2000's and ended up with killer draft picks to build around. The Hawks, clearly, have done a better job of turning that windfall into Stanley Cups.

hailtopitt 03-28-2016 02:06 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16349678)
Completely agree, Staal was a great pick and was an integral part of winning that cup. Like you said, hindsight is 20/20 and the Hawks are deep for the foreseeable future. Not knocking Staal at all, he is a great player but I think Toews is just a better center both on the dot and in providing offense - passing, shooting, killing penalties and helping out on defense. Everything a team wants in a captain.

yea of course Toews is better than Staal, i just can't bring myself to knock the draft pick by the Pens

funny how everyone thought the Pens and Hawks would meet multiple times in the Cup finals, yet its still never happened even with 5 appearances between them

would be such a fun series

Dramageek 03-28-2016 02:07 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16349685)
yea of course Toews is better than Staal, i just can't bring myself to knock the draft pick by the Pens

funny how everyone thought the Pens and Hawks would meet multiple times in the Cup finals, yet its still never happened even with 5 appearances between them

would be such a fun series

:thumbsup This year, right?!

hailtopitt 03-28-2016 02:09 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 16349687)
:thumbsup This year, right?!

god i hope so

i don't see the Pens beating the Rangers without Malkin though

aeroshady 03-28-2016 02:10 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16349679)
no one is arguing Hank's credentials or importance

but its just a fact that, especially nearing playoff time, that any goalie with a 2 syllable name gets taunted when he is having a rough night or gives up a softy

no need to be in an arena to know this. TV is just fine

:lol I am not arguing that this happens to other goalies. Just that Hank gets it full on. Just go to a Rangers Devils game in NJ. The Devils fans will be on him during the tailgate before the arena even opens...

Man, I wished I just used Kane, Ovi or Nash as my example for my point earlier. Clearly it would have made it easier to understand. I just picked the best player on my team naturally who happens to be a goalie....

aeroshady 03-28-2016 02:11 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16349691)
god i hope so

i don't see the Pens beating the Rangers without Malkin though

Malkin didn't help the last two years.

That said, I think the Pens this year could beat us even without him. I would still favor my team, but I am more worried about the Pens this year than I was last year.

hailtopitt 03-28-2016 02:13 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 16349695)
Malkin didn't help the last two years.

That said, I think the Pens this year could beat us even without him. I would still favor my team, but I am more worried about the Pens this year than I was last year.

yea but this isn't the last 2 years...Pens are a very different team and are super dangerous with Geno in the lineup

aeroshady 03-28-2016 02:18 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16349702)
yea but this isn't the last 2 years...Pens are a very different team and are super dangerous with Geno in the lineup

First comment about the last years was my attempt to brag (give me a break, I am a Rangers fan, we never win it all so my bragging skills are modest at best).

I agree, with Malkin I think the matchup would be a toss up. The Pens are playing great hockey, and part of me wonders what NYR team will be in the playoffs. They seem to always turn it on come post season and if that happens I would favor the Rangers with or without Malkin (although with would make it harder). That said, the Rangers have had three long runs in 4 years and I am still kind of expecting a let down this year due to fatigue. That could make this a juicy first round matchup for Pitt.

Dramageek 03-28-2016 02:24 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
As the Pens are on a tear without Malkin, winning many key games, some of them handily, I'm going to say the Pens are dangerous even without Malkin. They will need him back to go deep into the Playoffs, but I am feeling better about their chances against the Rags even without Malkin.

hailtopitt 03-28-2016 02:24 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 16349715)
First comment about the last years was my attempt to brag (give me a break, I am a Rangers fan, we never win it all so my bragging skills are modest at best).

I agree, with Malkin I think the matchup would be a toss up. The Pens are playing great hockey, and part of me wonders what NYR team will be in the playoffs. They seem to always turn it on come post season and if that happens I would favor the Rangers with or without Malkin (although with would make it harder). That said, the Rangers have had three long runs in 4 years and I am still kind of expecting a let down this year due to fatigue. That could make this a juicy first round matchup for Pitt.

yea agree with most of this but i'll simplify by saying it'll come down to 3 things:

1. goaltending--if Fleury or Hank are not on top of their games, it's series over

2. pace of play--if the Pens can speed up the Rangers and play a fast game, the Rags won't be able to keep up. i haven't seen a team in the east that can skate with the Pens...on the other hand, the the Rags can play heavy and wear down the Pens' undersized blue line on the forecheck, it give NYR a distinct advantage

3. special teams (self-explanatory)--and this is where Malkin really comes into play

Lcsulla 03-28-2016 02:25 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16349685)
yea of course Toews is better than Staal, i just can't bring myself to knock the draft pick by the Pens

funny how everyone thought the Pens and Hawks would meet multiple times in the Cup finals, yet its still never happened even with 5 appearances between them

would be such a fun series

I agree completely and am not knocking the pick by the Pens at all because he was a huge component to winning that cup. I will however knock St. Louis picking Johnson over Toews though, that was just lousy scouting IMO.

So true on them never meeting in a final, I thought it was going to happen in 2009 to be honest but Detroit won 4-1 during the western conference finals - in a closer series than the stats show since 3 games out of the 5 went to OT.

hailtopitt 03-28-2016 02:27 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16349730)
I agree completely and am not knocking the pick by the Pens at all because he was a huge component to winning that cup. I will however knock St. Louis picking Johnson over Toews though, that was just lousy scouting IMO.

So true on them never meeting in a final, I thought it was going to happen in 2009 to be honest but Detroit won 4-1 during the western conference finals - in a closer series than the stats show since 3 games out of the 5 went to OT.

reminds me of the Pens Rangers series from last year

EVERY game that the Pens lost, the score was 2-1 Rangers :lol

Fleury did his part for sure, which gives me hope for this year

aeroshady 03-28-2016 02:32 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16349732)
reminds me of the Pens Rangers series from last year

EVERY game that the Pens lost, the score was 2-1 Rangers :lol

Fleury did his part for sure, which gives me hope for this year

Fleury was the Pens best player last year in that series.

Rangers win all of their playoff games 1-0, 2-1, 3-2. Gives me a heart attack every time. Either this team is really good at winning close games, or they are the luckiest team in NHL history.

Lcsulla 03-28-2016 02:33 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 16349715)
First comment about the last years was my attempt to brag (give me a break, I am a Rangers fan, we never win it all so my bragging skills are modest at best).

I agree, with Malkin I think the matchup would be a toss up. The Pens are playing great hockey, and part of me wonders what NYR team will be in the playoffs. They seem to always turn it on come post season and if that happens I would favor the Rangers with or without Malkin (although with would make it harder). That said, the Rangers have had three long runs in 4 years and I am still kind of expecting a let down this year due to fatigue. That could make this a juicy first round matchup for Pitt.

If I gambled I would bet on NY over the Pens to be honest. Hank will be a difference maker.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 16349727)
As the Pens are on a tear without Malkin, winning many key games, some of them handily, I'm going to say the Pens are dangerous even without Malkin. They will need him back to go deep into the Playoffs, but I am feeling better about their chances against the Rags even without Malkin.

Completely agree, they are on a tear right now. I thought they'd falter when Malkin went down but what the hell do I know. For the Pens it is going to come down to seeding I think, if they get a favorable first round matchup they should advance - also gotta wonder how well Malkin will bounce back and how much he will contribute because in the later rounds he could be either a difference maker or a dud - give Miss Cleo a call for an answer on that one! :)

Lcsulla 03-28-2016 02:36 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16349732)
reminds me of the Pens Rangers series from last year

EVERY game that the Pens lost, the score was 2-1 Rangers :lol

Fleury did his part for sure, which gives me hope for this year

Know what you mean, the series between the Hawks and Ducks was brutal last year. Seemed like every game went to OT, double OT or triple OT and finished around 2am eastern time!

~Crashintome89~ 03-28-2016 03:07 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16349636)
We know Flyers fans hang on 2007. Look at the drop off after Kane...I don't know most of those guys in the first round.

Oh...we do?

TMoore4075 03-28-2016 03:15 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 16349808)
Oh...we do?

Yes. You were never upset the 5th worst team jumped ahead of the Flyers in the draft and you got JVR instead of Kane? Cause that wouldn't have changed things.

barbogast 03-28-2016 03:26 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 16349665)
Alright, I was going to move on from this but fine, ill be kind of be a dick about it. I have not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 NHL arenas within an hour and a half from where I live. I have seen a home game at all 4 of those arenas in the last year. Also, add on the United center in Chicago as I went to a game there in the last two weeks. I also lived 3 minutes from TD Garden in Boston for 3 years and saw the Rangers play the Bruins there several times. With that said, Hank gets taunted WAY more than Halak, Schneider, Mason or anyone else that has played in net for those teams. It is not even close, I have been to the games to back this up.

Hank gives up one goal on the road, and the home fans are on him instantly. They also boo him like crazing when the starting lineups are announced. For Mason or Schneider or Halak, they need to give up 2-3 before they start hearing it from the MSG fans or whatever home fans they play on the road...if they even hear anything at all.

You named Holtby and Fleury as your examples, which actually proves the point I was making. Both are or have been elite goalies at some point in their career and are expected to be major parts of their team. The point I was making to start the day was that the great players get the most shit from away fans because they earned it.

Is anyone in here really arguing that Hank has not been one of, if not the best goalie in the league of the last 10-12 years? Or more importantly, is anyone really arguing that he is not 100% the Rangers most important player???

Wasn't trying to be argumentative. Was just saying the goalie taunting isn't exclusive to Hank, which is what I thought you were saying. Of course Hank is the most important Ranger, and probably the most consistent goalie of the past decade.

~Crashintome89~ 03-28-2016 04:04 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16349833)
Yes. You were never upset the 5th worst team jumped ahead of the Flyers in the draft and you got JVR instead of Kane? Cause that wouldn't have changed things.

Upset? Not really. It's a draft lottery. I was more upset over the fact that the Flyers were so terrible that year.

Fortunately, Holmgren made up for it at the trade deadline and free agency and did a very nice job creating a core that made the Conference Finals two out of the next four years.

kev87lads 03-28-2016 04:10 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16349833)
Yes. You were never upset the 5th worst team jumped ahead of the Flyers in the draft and you got JVR instead of Kane? Cause that wouldn't have changed things.

I was pissed. It was so Philadelphia though. So it's whatever. It just became more annoying once Kane put in that GWG in 2010. Cemented the crappyness of not getting that first pick.

Brohan_Santana 03-28-2016 04:11 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 16349354)
And Rags fans, booing Crosby is so 2008-2009.

Like the Penguins fans still don't boo Ovechkin :lol :lol :lol :lol

~Crashintome89~ 03-28-2016 04:13 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kev87lads (Post 16349912)
I was pissed. It was so Philadelphia though. So it's whatever. It just became more annoying once Kane put in that GWG in 2010. Cemented the crappyness of not getting that first pick.

Homer would have traded him for Pronger anyway.

hailtopitt 03-28-2016 04:25 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Brohan_Santana (Post 16349918)
Like the Penguins fans still don't boo Ovechkin :lol :lol :lol :lol

yes, we still boo ovechkin, but it's mainly because of this hit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwxTrxESWjI


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