Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

:thumbsup No worries!

Would you support universal + sin tax?

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Nobody has said this. You trolling? I literally said people should listen to their Dr.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Perhaps a little column A and a little column B.

I do think that under a universal health care system run by The Man, penalizing people for their lifestyle choices would come off as kind of draconian.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Interesting if it wouldn't impact it either way. I find that hard to believe but I'm all ears if it doesn't. Im definitely fine with certain items being taxed more. I agree it wouldn't impact any choices though.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Love the idea of sin tax. Alcohol, tobacco, sugar, weed....tax it all. Put it towards care or research or something.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

I think that part of the problem is that people assume that most pre-existing conditions can be solved by just living a better lifestyle

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

draconian? charging people more for sugar and cigs is draconian when they are getting free healthcare in return?

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

I've posted stats on costs directly associated with obesity in this thread previously. It's an obscenely high amount.

In fact...I think people incorrectly assume, to a fucking ridiculously large extent, that their shitty eating habits don't really impact their overall health.

We are a FAT fucking nation. One of the major reasons our healthcare costs are so high.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

"Spending per capita for obese adults exceeded spending for adults of normal weight by about 8 percent in 1987 and by about 38 percent in 2007. That increasing gap in spending between the two groups probably reflects a combination of factors, including changes in the average health status of the obese population and technological advances that offer new, costly treatments for conditions that are particularly common among obese individuals."

Obesity costs 38% more...and that number was from 2007 and was increasing significantly.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Not necessarily solved in most cases. I don't think their is a decent argument against listening to drs orders though. Especially when talking about diabetes, cholesterol, blood pressure etc. Things like that are fairly easy to manage with a little effort.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

holy shit, that's bad

what's the source?

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Absolutely staggering.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

One area it may impact choices is those in poverty...where cheap, sugary foods are staples. If beans and rice are all of a sudden significantly cheaper, it may impact choices there....maybe....


We've got a plan! Now we just need a name!

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

That was from a CBO article: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/21772

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

This also has a brief summary, with citations if you want to dig deeper:

http://stateofobesity.org/healthcare-costs-obesity/


Obese adults spend 42 percent more on direct healthcare costs than adults who are a healthy weight.5
Per capita healthcare costs for severely or morbidly obese adults (BMI >40) are 81 percent higher than for healthy weight adults.6 In 2000, around $11 billion was spent on medical expenditures for morbidly obese U.S. adults.
Moderately obese (BMI between 30 and 35) individuals are more than twice as likely as healthy weight individuals to be prescribed prescription pharmaceuticals to manage medical conditions.7
Costs for patients presenting at emergency rooms with chest pains are 41 percent higher for severely obese patients, 28 percent higher for obese patients and 22 percent higher for overweight patients than for healthy- weight patients.8

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

And that's just obesity. I'm sure there are similar stats out there for heavy drinkers and smokers.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

this is interesting, thanks

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

:thumbsup anytime!

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

I am no fan of sin taxes at all. I can understand why some people think we need them but much like idiotic gun laws they end up targeting the wrong people. Take myself for example, I will be 40 in a month - I smoke just shy of a pack of lights a day, I average about 6 alcoholic drinks per month, have the occasional cigar every few months, I avoid sugary and fatty foods, I do not do drugs except when told to do so by my doc, my health is damn good and I work every damn day to stay in shape by running, swimming and playing sports. So as far as risks go I am not really a big health risk anytime soon yet when I occasionally buy something others consider 'bad' I get whacked in taxes as bad as some 400 pound tubbo, a fall down drunk or a chain smoker - is that remotely fair?

Sure, I know my cigarettes do not have vitamin D in them or something and maybe decades from now I will end up with lung cancer due to my smoking but is that costing the taxpayer any more than the drunk who needs a new liver or the fat ass who has a heart attack or the opiod user who OD's and needs a lengthy hospital stay? The reason I ask is because currently in the US I pay about ten bucks a pack for cigarettes, when I leave the US and purchase them in other countries (the exact same brand) they cost me $1.25 per pack - that is not taxation nor is it a sin tax, it is pretty much theft on a massive scale. The argument to tax tobacco is always about what the healthcare costs will be, how come that never comes up when we talk about drunks, drug addicts and fatsos? While I cannot speak for all smokers I have no more desire to pay for someone else's self-induced health problems than anyone else wants to pay for my possible lung cancer - yet only the smokers are taxed at such a ridiculous rate. Worse smokers are treated as second hand citizens while a crackhead is somehow a victim of the system, a drunk is laughed at as harmless and a tubbo is always somehow supported by idiotic arguments like 'they can't afford better food.'

Maybe we should treat every risk taker like a smoker - lets tax the shit out of jack daniels or ben and jerries at the same rate as tobacco. Lets force people over say 350lbs to park at least 10 rows from the supermarkets so they get some exercise walking from their cars and not allow them to use elevators so they can use the steps and drop a few pounds at the local Macy's. Quit acting like drug addicts are victims and raise their insurance premiums 900% (approximately what tobacco is taxed in the NE) after testing positive for heroin or blow and if they OD make them do community service until they have paid back their hospital bill.

That is what I do not like about sin taxes, they are not implemented evenly at all. The smoker is always the bed person, the drunk is lovable and harmless and the fatso's and drug addicts are victims. The convoluted logic just makes no sense to me at all. If you want to implement a sin tax so be it but apply it evenly to every dangerous thing people can put in their bodies.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Agree they aren't even...Let's fix that! #[insert catchy name for universal coverage plus obscene sin tax]!

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

#CavefeTax maybe? :lol

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

As a pharmacist for 21 years now, I have seen it all. The whole lifestyle thing is tough as I am a firm believer that genes play a huge role in your health. I have seen countless people who appear to in good health die young, have heart attacks, and been on all sorts of meds whereas Ill have patients who have been obese for years barely be on any meds and live long lives.

That said, I definitely promote healthy eating, exercise, etc because it's been proven to work , especially for, say, type 2 diabetics. They lose weight and they get off meds, avoid insulin, etc. But I do think good genes are the number 1 key to a long life.

I have seen so much from medicaid abuse, seniors deciding between groceries or their meds to the ridiculous costs of prescription meds. Too bad big pharma in the pockets of so many congressmen. No reason for meds to costs so much more here than overseas for the same pill made in the same factory.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Not to mention stress is a big health factor. Need to tax people who take on too much, create drama or can't get their shit together.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Under Allison's new health care (United) with her new job (and thus my new health care) we get gift cards for doing shit like going to a yearly checkup, getting blood work done, getting a cancer screening, get a flu shot... there's a whole check list of shit with different amounts. There may even be a fitness aspect with something like a Fitbit, but I'm not positive. We haven't had it that long, so I haven't really looked into it.

Now, obviously United gives zero fucks about how healthy I am beyond how it affects their bottom line, so that tells me that the incentive program, and the better health or early detection it could lead to, will save them enough money long term to make it worthwhile.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

exactly. hell, i don't have to pay any premiums for September or October simply because I got a physical last week, that Loomis paid for

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

the Bernie guy and the Trump guy both lost the Dem and GOP primaries for Virginia Gov, maybe it is a time for moderates

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

It all depends if your wife's employer has a self-funded or fully insured plan through United, but there if it's self-funded then it'd be her employer who is offering it because they're convinced the incentives are better for their bottom line. The idea behind your thought is correct though.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Must have been a rough day for the Russia conspiracy theorists if we're talking about healthcare.

Glad Gillepsie won in VA.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

:thumbsup

I think it's worth stating (even if it should be obvious) that there's not much you can do about your genes but you can do something about your lifestyle.

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 

Happy birthday to Our Dear Leader.

All Americans are granted an interval of appreciation time today to thank Our Dear Leader for being born.