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-   -   The NHL Thread (https://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

Bron Yr Aur 08-11-2015 07:18 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Those of us with any sense know that it's pretty goddamn likely (given all of the evidence that has come out) that he raped/assaulted that woman.

TMoore4075 08-11-2015 07:34 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
It's news because of who he is, whether you like it or not. He's a popular public figure and people want to know about it, so I think Buffalo News was doing a pretty good job of reporting what they know with, as of now, not going overboard. It can get out of hand if the girl's name gets out there. I hope that doesn't happen because the girl will get slut shamed because....internet.

Just read this article and was wondering the same thing a few days ago.

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/2...rts/150819868/

Did they ever talk to him about it? I dunno if we'll ever know that. Do the Hawks have a responsibility to do so? I say yes. If they don't talk to him, who will? That kind of money and lifestyle is a lot for a young person.

JRS1386 08-11-2015 07:39 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
You are dumb for thinking he is melting.

hailtopitt 08-11-2015 07:43 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
i was scared last week

i was in a taxi cab, in buffalo...counting my blessings that i'm here today

YouNeverKnow25 08-11-2015 07:55 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
the problem with the "should the blackhawks have done more to manage kane?" line of thinking is that rape is not something stupid you do when you're drunk like lose your phone or vomit in public.


it's like asking "what could the patriots have done to prevent aaron hernandez from going on a murdering spree?" violent rape much more similar to murder than DUI. "He's a wild drunk" is something you say about someone who gets into a liquored-up fight or steals a pizza from a delivery boy. "he's a rapist" is something you say about someone who rapes a person, regardless of intoxication.

this is all speaking about rape in general, I have no idea what happened in buffalo that night.

lockman21 08-11-2015 08:43 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Bron proving my point.

Dumb people make dumb assumptions when things like this are made public before anyone knows facts.

Lcsulla 08-11-2015 08:49 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Roose13 (Post 16097230)
Yes, it's responsible journalism.

I disagree and not just because I am a Hawks fan. I think rape is probably the most hideous crime someone can commit besides murder and anyone savage enough to do that should be prosecuted to the fullest extant of the law. Here is my rationale, in bullet points for ease of read:

1) Even if there is a DNA match with Kane this does not mean the sex was not consensual.

2) If there is no match, it sill does not mean something didn't happen - it only means Kane left no DNA traces.

3) Not one independent doctor (aka unaffiliated with the case) has been spoken to on the process of how rape kits are processed.

4) I believe since this is a high profile case the test would have been put to the top of the queue - no pun intended.

5) Generally a rape kit can be processed between 12 and 48 hours or they risk contamination of the evidence. Hence, we should have heard something by now.

6) In EVERY case like this there is a chance that the chain of evidence had been broken or the samples tampered with to benefit either Kane or the woman who alleges rape.

7) Different states have different processes on how they do the testing. One state may match for X amount of DNA markers while another state may check for more or less DNA markers.

8) If there was DNA left behind I do not believe Kane is in the CODIS system (Combined DNA Index System) so they would have to check his DNA as well to see if it matches the DNA found - again if something was found my guess is that given the high profile of this case it would or should have been reported or leaked that Kane had been ordered to give a DNA sample for comparison.

9) DNA has a very short window of survival so to speak, aka it degrades over time. The maximum window is 7 days for any evidence to be relevant in court - after that it becomes a he said she said trial if it goes that far.

-DNA from fingers in vagina — up to 12 hours.
-DNA from a penis — most likely to obtain a profile from the victim within the first 12 hours.
-DNA from skin to skin contact (e.g., on bruises, or from kissing) can be detected up to two days. This includes detection of body fluids, cellular material and lubricant. If by chance, the person has not bathed or showered then the Forensic Science service says that the relevant area can be swabbed up to 7 days after the incident.
-Fingernail scrapings — two days.
-Oral (saliva and mouth swabs) — two days.
-Lubricant from a condom — up to 30 hours.
-Anal — up to three days.
-Vaginal — up to seven days.
-Fibers of anything put on the head can last up to seven days.

10) If this was not a high profile case it would not even be newsworthy.

Best guess we should hear something within the next 3 days. Up until then Kane is essentially being tried in the court of public opinion which is severely unfair, not to mention we all know of the Duke Lacrosse team scandal got screwed over in the court of public opinion but despite the fact that they were all exonerated their potential careers and public image were ruined by the allegations alone.

Am I the only one thinking some of these points should have been noted by the media? We have no way of knowing whether he was culpable or not so it is all speculation right now and that is BS in my opinion because only Kane and the girl he allegedly raped know the truth. Maybe he is guilty and maybe he is not, the fact is no one truly knows so given all I have stated (facts) were not even touched upon. This is not real reporting IMO, it is gossip and speculation because it is a high profile allegation. I cannot defend or condemn him given what we know so I think the media are failing in their duty to provide the public with pertinent information. It is shoddy journalism, nothing more because they failed in many ways to provide genuine facts that are relevant to the allegation. No one knows squat yet they report what has been said by the police and the Kane legal team - aka no comment. That is is a dis-service to those of us following the case. Frankly the media are not doing their jobs in digging deeper, not into the case but into the facts about rape allegations. We deserve better reporting.

TMoore4075 08-11-2015 08:50 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16097614)
the problem with the "should the blackhawks have done more to manage kane?" line of thinking is that rape is not something stupid you do when you're drunk like lose your phone or vomit in public.


it's like asking "what could the patriots have done to prevent aaron hernandez from going on a murdering spree?" violent rape much more similar to murder than DUI. "He's a wild drunk" is something you say about someone who gets into a liquored-up fight or steals a pizza from a delivery boy. "he's a rapist" is something you say about someone who rapes a person, regardless of intoxication.

this is all speaking about rape in general, I have no idea what happened in buffalo that night.

Rape isn't something stupid you do while you are drunk? Why not? So you can be stupid enough to steal a pizza or get into a fight (something you wouldn't do sober) if you are drunk but not stupid enough to force yourself on a girl? Rape is bad regardless. I get that and I'm not making an excuse for him but he could have forced himself on this girl if he were drunk that he might not have done sober. I'm not saying it's making him any less of a rapist or anything. I'm saying you (the Hawks) know he's a partier and he's already done some stupid shit, and this kind of partying can put you in bad situations? I've seen people in here joke about him being such a partier as "Kaner gonna Kane" kinda shit and partying that hard isn't really a joke. I partied pretty hard one night in college where there are parts of the night I don't remember. I never did it that hard again but not everyone comes to that realization by themselves and add into it that people make jokes about how hard he parties, that just says what you are doing is ok.

rickyh24 08-11-2015 08:52 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Rape is something you do when you are a rapist.

YouNeverKnow25 08-11-2015 08:56 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16097700)
I'm not saying it's making him any less of a rapist or anything.

I get that you don't think you are, but by trying to classify this as an alcohol problem rather than a rape problem, yeah that's p much exactly what you are doing.

TMoore4075 08-11-2015 09:12 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16097708)
I get that you don't think you are, but by trying to classify this as an alcohol problem rather than a rape problem, yeah that's p much exactly what you are doing.

I'm saying the Hawks helped perpetuate a problem if they never said anything to him. Everyone just laughs up when he says or does stupid shit so why would he think that is wrong?

rickyh24 08-11-2015 09:13 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Did I just see rape compared to stealing a piece of pizza? Good lord.

Stealing is something thieves do.

Assault is something assaulters do.

Rape is something Rapist do.

Molesting is something molesters do.

Murdering is something murderers do.

Being drunk may make you get sloppy at doing these things but it's not a reason for doing them.

hailtopitt 08-11-2015 09:15 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16097731)
I'm saying the Hawks helped perpetuate a problem if they never said anything to him. Everyone just laughs up when he says or does stupid shit so why would he think that is wrong?

because he's an adult?

pathetic 08-11-2015 09:22 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Kane might not have done it sober. Alcohol/drugs could be the variable that pushed him over the edge, but it has to be something that was in his mind regardless of if he's sober or not

edit: if it's true that is..

YouNeverKnow25 08-11-2015 09:25 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16097731)
I'm saying the Hawks helped perpetuate a problem if they never said anything to him. Everyone just laughs up when he says or does stupid shit so why would he think that is wrong?

wow. this is a lot to unpack.

first sentence: I imagine that the blackhawks, probably safely, assumed that at the point we need to tell one of our players not to rape someone, the damage is probably already done and we'd be wasting our breath.

second: somewhat correlated, if patrick kane needed the blackhawks, NHL fans, or anybody else who has giggled at his foibles to specifically tell him "hey don't rape anyone," the damage was probably already done.

YouNeverKnow25 08-11-2015 09:26 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyh24 (Post 16097735)
Did I just see rape compared to stealing a piece of pizza? Good lord.

Stealing is something thieves do.

Assault is something assaulters do.

Rape is something Rapist do.

Molesting is something molesters do.

Murdering is something murderers do.

Being drunk may make you get sloppy at doing these things but it's not a reason for doing them.

:confused if referring to my post, you saw it contrasted, not compared

pathetic 08-11-2015 09:27 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
:lol:lol blaming the hawks

rickyh24 08-11-2015 09:30 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16097760)
:confused if referring to my post, you saw it contrasted, not compared


Whatever I saw looked pretty damn silly.

dmbetc 08-11-2015 09:32 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
And let's not forget that Kane is not a rookie with the NHL. This isn't his first show at the rodeo. I would be very surprised if the Hawks have not spoken to him about his behavior outside the locker room. He knows how he should be acting, what he should and shouldn't be doing (as an adult and a public figure).

Yes everyone laughs about his past bro moments but I doubt the Hawks coaching staff was doing any laughing. They can't force him to act a certain way or scold him for drinking and enjoying his time. There's nothing anyone could've said or done to stop what happened (of course, if it's proven true).

dmbetc 08-11-2015 09:33 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Let me clarify my last post: not saying a rookie would have an excuse for raping someone. Just in regardes to "reckless behavior"

lockman21 08-11-2015 09:35 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16097695)
Am I the only one thinking some of these points should have been noted by the media? We have no way of knowing whether he was culpable or not so it is all speculation right now and that is BS in my opinion because only Kane and the girl he allegedly raped know the truth. Maybe he is guilty and maybe he is not, the fact is no one truly knows so given all I have stated (facts) were not even touched upon. This is not real reporting IMO, it is gossip and speculation because it is a high profile allegation. I cannot defend or condemn him given what we know so I think the media are failing in their duty to provide the public with pertinent information. It is shoddy journalism, nothing more because they failed in many ways to provide genuine facts that are relevant to the allegation. No one knows squat yet they report what has been said by the police and the Kane legal team - aka no comment. That is is a dis-service to those of us following the case. Frankly the media are not doing their jobs in digging deeper, not into the case but into the facts about rape allegations. We deserve better reporting.

I love the post, but I just didn't wanna quote the whole thing.

As far as all this goes...that's the issue with this getting out to the media in the first place. Way too much speculation, way too many shitty "opinion" pieces, etc. Not enough facts. It's a jungle or garbage out there and everyone involved is worse off for it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16097731)
I'm saying the Hawks helped perpetuate a problem if they never said anything to him. Everyone just laughs up when he says or does stupid shit so why would he think that is wrong?

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16097736)
because he's an adult?

Is he though?

lockman21 08-11-2015 09:37 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dmbetc (Post 16097777)
And let's not forget that Kane is not a rookie with the NHL. This isn't his first show at the rodeo. I would be very surprised if the Hawks have not spoken to him about his behavior outside the locker room. He knows how he should be acting, what he should and shouldn't be doing (as an adult and a public figure).

Yes everyone laughs about his past bro moments but I doubt the Hawks coaching staff wasn't doing any laughing. They can't force him to act a certain way or scold him for drinking and enjoying his time. There's nothing anyone could've said or done to stop what happened (of course, if it's proven true).

I'm trying to find the video, but there's an interview with Kane after his Madison excursion where he gets very emotional talking about all the Hawks did to stand by his side during a time where he acted in a way that was not proud of.

hailtopitt 08-11-2015 09:38 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 16097783)
Is he though?

are you really gonna go down this road?

he's 26 years old

hailtopitt 08-11-2015 09:38 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 16097788)
I'm trying to find the video, but there's an interview with Kane after his Madison excursion where he gets very emotional talking about all the Hawks did to stand by his side during a time where he acted in a way that was not proud of.

well if what just happened is true, he did a hell of a job showing his appreciation

dmbetc 08-11-2015 09:40 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 16097788)
I'm trying to find the video, but there's an interview with Kane after his Madison excursion where he gets very emotional talking about all the Hawks did to stand by his side during a time where he acted in a way that was not proud of.

I was pretty sure there was something like that too. If he is proven guilty, his actions have nothing to do with the organization or anyone else except Kane.

lockman21 08-11-2015 09:49 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16097791)
are you really gonna go down this road?

he's 26 years old

:lol Take it easy, it was mostly a joke.

I do think it's worth talking about the lives these guys live "growing up" compared to people like you and me. Kane moved out of his parents house at 14 years old where his life was basically hockey. He didn't have a traditional education, he was separated from his parents before he could legally obtain a learner's permit to drive a car, and has been basically praised since he can remember.

I think it's something that needs to be addressed in pro sports, especially the NHL (considering how young these kids are shipped off to basically just play hockey and live in dorms). These people aren't adults like you and I are adults. They need life coaching beyond just how to handle the press. I mean, we see it time and time again when they're taken advantage of for money...I don't know...I'm just thinking out loud.

Rebecca De Mornay 08-11-2015 09:55 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 16097816)
:lol Take it easy, it was mostly a joke.

I do think it's worth talking about the lives these guys live "growing up" compared to people like you and me. Kane moved out of his parents house at 14 years old where his life was basically hockey. He didn't have a traditional education, he was separated from his parents before he could legally obtain a learner's permit to drive a car, and has been basically praised since he can remember.

I think it's something that needs to be addressed in pro sports, especially the NHL (considering how young these kids are shipped off to basically just play hockey and live in dorms). These people aren't adults like you and I are adults. They need life coaching beyond just how to handle the press. I mean, we see it time and time again when they're taken advantage of for money...I don't know...I'm just thinking out loud.

the jack johnson situation is something that maybe some specific education for young kids with a bunch of money all of the sudden could have prevented.

this is rape. do you really think someone sitting Kane down and telling him not perform rape would have prevented this?

sexual assault transcends all of these other human inadequacies and ego driven actions you're comparing it too.

YouNeverKnow25 08-11-2015 09:57 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
maybe the don't rape people part of the parental curriculum was scheduled for years 15 and 16 for kaner

hailtopitt 08-11-2015 09:58 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Lockman :lol

Rebecca De Mornay 08-11-2015 10:00 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
i'd actually agree with the point pathetic made (i think) a couple days ago.

rape is even more deplorable when it's a professional athlete. because it's more than just a sexual driven thing. as we said, if kane wants to get some he can because of money and status. the fact that he resorted to rape would lead me to think he's just really fucked up.

again all of this assumes he's guilty, that's the premise im operating under until we hear otherwise.


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