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-   -   The NHL Thread (https://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

barbogast 11-27-2018 04:00 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakan (Post 17314311)
match ups is what coaches have to say in order to justify playing players on the wrong lines for the most part.

Every player that isn't on the correct line means you are losing scoring chances and points due to lack of playing time. The Rangers have Shattenkirk on their 3rd pair. No justification. I can cite things like that all over the league. With too many players out of position all you are doing is giving yourself a better 3rd and 4th line which don't get as much playing time.
In a page filled with strange and bad posts by you, this one really sticks out.

Please tell, how exactly will putting Radko Gudas on the top D pair help Philly increase their scoring chances? Because by your logic and that website, that’s where he should be, to give the Flyers the best chance to score. You must see how ridiculous that is. Or do you not know anything about players past what their rating is on daily faceoff?

barbogast 11-27-2018 04:03 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakan (Post 17314527)
I don't think defensemen are as crucial as people might think. When is the last time you heard that a team is a can't miss because of their defensemen? They might have a really good defensemen at the point but that is it. Hockey is goalie dependent. A lot of D is played by backchecking forwards.
Ok this one sticks out too. Defenseman aren’t crucial?? What??? Ask any of the Cup winners ever if that’s the case

Roose13 11-27-2018 07:43 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Good column by Sam Carchidi on the Flyers' wrong move

http://www2.philly.com/philly/sports...-20181126.html

fonzz41 11-27-2018 09:31 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakan (Post 17314527)
I don't think defensemen are as crucial as people might think. When is the last time you heard that a team is a can't miss because of their defensemen? They might have a really good defensemen at the point but that is it. Hockey is goalie dependent. A lot of D is played by backchecking forwards.
I don't even know what to really say here. Hockey positions are not in a pissing contest with each other over which is more important. Goalies are necessary, yes. Forwards are necessary, yes. And defensemen (of which I'm a huge apologist) are absolutely crucial to the game. They often say the best defensemen are the ones you never notice, because you only notice a defenseman when he screws up. Look away from the stats sheet and up at the game and it's readily apparent.

And yes, just like a backchecking forward benefits his team in his own zone, a defenseman patrolling the blueline contributes just as equally to his team's offense. Especially in today's NHL where ripping a shot from the point and getting traffic in front to screen and promote tip-ins is such a part of the game.

A "can't miss" team, as you put it, is the team that understands that. It's the team that doesn't worry about putting the best players together but putting the right players together. And yeah, the best players often do end up playing together, but it's the idea that everyone will do the job that's asked of them, and adapt when they need to adapt, that makes a "can't miss" team.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakan (Post 17314518)
Sure, if he can play defense as good as an average NHL forward he's have a lot more scoring chances. Imagine Ovechkin stealing the puck in the neutral zone for an odd man rush or pressuring a defensemen at the point and sending one of his guys for a break away. He doesn't have to be great he just has to be average at it.
The Ovi example is a good one. There are situations when an opposing top line is so good that they need Ovi to backcheck more. Or when an opposing team's point men (i.e., Nashville) is so good that they need him to be in front of them, laying in front of shots and such (PS, this is another reason why a good d-corp is crucial... it can neutralize the other team's offense even in that team's own zone because they demand greater defensive attention). It's clear that Ovi is a more mature player now because he gets that and is ready to do that when asked. And conversely, there are times when a coach will feel comfortable giving his offensive star the green light to just look for that breakout and fly with it. Again, it comes down to a player's ability to adapt to what the matchup calls for.

Roose13 11-27-2018 09:45 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakan (Post 17314527)
I don't think defensemen are as crucial as people might think. When is the last time you heard that a team is a can't miss because of their defensemen? They might have a really good defensemen at the point but that is it. Hockey is goalie dependent. A lot of D is played by backchecking forwards.
Is this a real thought? :lol:lol

fonzz41 11-27-2018 09:48 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev87lads (Post 17314466)
He has.......
:lol Gold
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 17314437)
How great is it that Tom Wilson is the hottest player in the league right now?
It's really great. Of all that people to whom it proves that he can do things the right way, I hope it's himself that he proves it to the most. He needs to understand that he can play the right way and still help his team. He's doing it right now and the proof will be in the pudding for him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakan (Post 17314528)
You can "score" goals by playing good D and being able to possess the puck. Crosby is good at that. Ovi's defense sucks. He'd have even more goal scoring chances if it was just average.
Part of it is positional and part of it is the natural disposition of the player. Crosby is a center, meaning he does have more of an in-the-trenches defensive responsibility than a winger like Ovechkin. He's gotta be that third guy in. And for the record, he is better defensively. But also, different players, as they develop, have different tendencies. Crosby and Ovechkin are exactly that: different...
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 17314531)
To be clear, if you still claim that Ovechkin can’t or doesn’t play defense, you aren’t actually paying attention, and are just parroting a decade old narrative that isn’t currently based in reality.
...But also, this is absolutely true. His play in the playoffs last year absolutely proved that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 17314539)
In a page filled with strange and bad posts by you, this one really sticks out.

Please tell, how exactly will putting Radko Gudas on the top D pair help Philly increase their scoring chances? Because by your logic and that website, that’s where he should be, to give the Flyers the best chance to score. You must see how ridiculous that is. Or do you not know anything about players past what their rating is on daily faceoff?
And even then, the top pair's primary job isn't to score. Secondary job, yes. But a top pair is put together with the primary responsibility of neutralizing the other team's top line first and foremost. That's why Tyson Barrie, with 20 points in 23 games and far away the highest scoring defenseman on the Avs, is playing on the second pair. You do NOT want him defending against Connor McDavid. :lol

Brohan_Santana 11-27-2018 05:24 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 17314886)
:lol Gold



It's really great. Of all that people to whom it proves that he can do things the right way, I hope it's himself that he proves it to the most. He needs to understand that he can play the right way and still help his team. He's doing it right now and the proof will be in the pudding for him.



Part of it is positional and part of it is the natural disposition of the player. Crosby is a center, meaning he does have more of an in-the-trenches defensive responsibility than a winger like Ovechkin. He's gotta be that third guy in. And for the record, he is better defensively. But also, different players, as they develop, have different tendencies. Crosby and Ovechkin are exactly that: different...



...But also, this is absolutely true. His play in the playoffs last year absolutely proved that.



And even then, the top pair's primary job isn't to score. Secondary job, yes. But a top pair is put together with the primary responsibility of neutralizing the other team's top line first and foremost. That's why Tyson Barrie, with 20 points in 23 games and far away the highest scoring defenseman on the Avs, is playing on the second pair. You do NOT want him defending against Connor McDavid. :lol


I feel like whenever you post it’s like scripture. The words & rhetoric you serve is taken as the rule.

I’m glad you bring a balanced perspective

drakan 11-27-2018 05:54 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 17314531)
To be clear, if you still claim that Ovechkin can’t or doesn’t play defense, you aren’t actually paying attention, and are just parroting a decade old narrative that isn’t currently based in reality.
I've looked at the numbers. They are awful. Crosby owns Ovi's defense.

drakan 11-27-2018 05:57 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 17314540)
Ok this one sticks out too. Defenseman aren’t crucial?? What??? Ask any of the Cup winners ever if that’s the case
It's a goalie-centric league, especially during the playoffs. I said they aren't as crucial as you think.

drakan 11-27-2018 06:03 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roose13 (Post 17314881)
Is this a real thought? :lol:lol
It's all about goalies and sometimes back checking forwards. Watch any odd man rush. It's almost always the back checking forwards that break up the plays. On a 2 on 1 the d-man plays the pass while still trying to get the puck carrier to shoot and the goalie gets the guy with the puck. If the forwards are too slow it's often times a back checking forward that breaks up the play. Same on a 3 on 2. Defensemen have a lot of help in the zone from the center and wingers.

The goalie is crucial and team defense is overlooked.

drakan 11-27-2018 06:11 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
I know some people think plus/minus is useless but last year he was a plus 6. His worst year was minus 35. Ouch. He has 635 goals yet he is only a plus 91. Gretzky was scored 894 goals and was a plus 520.

drakan 11-27-2018 06:12 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 17314867)
I don't even know what to really say here. Hockey positions are not in a pissing contest with each other over which is more important. Goalies are necessary, yes. Forwards are necessary, yes. And defensemen (of which I'm a huge apologist) are absolutely crucial to the game. They often say the best defensemen are the ones you never notice, because you only notice a defenseman when he screws up. Look away from the stats sheet and up at the game and it's readily apparent.

And yes, just like a backchecking forward benefits his team in his own zone, a defenseman patrolling the blueline contributes just as equally to his team's offense. Especially in today's NHL where ripping a shot from the point and getting traffic in front to screen and promote tip-ins is such a part of the game.

A "can't miss" team, as you put it, is the team that understands that. It's the team that doesn't worry about putting the best players together but putting the right players together. And yeah, the best players often do end up playing together, but it's the idea that everyone will do the job that's asked of them, and adapt when they need to adapt, that makes a "can't miss" team.

The Ovi example is a good one. There are situations when an opposing top line is so good that they need Ovi to backcheck more. Or when an opposing team's point men (i.e., Nashville) is so good that they need him to be in front of them, laying in front of shots and such (PS, this is another reason why a good d-corp is crucial... it can neutralize the other team's offense even in that team's own zone because they demand greater defensive attention). It's clear that Ovi is a more mature player now because he gets that and is ready to do that when asked. And conversely, there are times when a coach will feel comfortable giving his offensive star the green light to just look for that breakout and fly with it. Again, it comes down to a player's ability to adapt to what the matchup calls for.
All address your points later but all you have to do is watch the game to notice if a defensemen is good or not.

fonzz41 11-27-2018 06:48 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakan (Post 17315494)
All address your points later but all you have to do is watch the game to notice if a defensemen is good or not.


So we agree.

Roose13 11-27-2018 07:19 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
:lol:lol

drakan 11-27-2018 07:31 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 17315601)
So we agree.
Defensemen are not absolutely crucial. Goalies are.

fonzz41 11-27-2018 07:43 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakan (Post 17315689)
Defensemen are not absolutely crucial. Goalies are.


To your 1st statement: okay bud

To your 2nd: agreed. no one here has said otherwise

fonzz41 11-27-2018 07:46 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by drakan (Post 17315494)
All address your points later but all you have to do is watch the game to notice if a defensemen is good or not.

You’re exaggerating, but generous. Thank you. I’m sincerely glad you’ve stuck with us here over the years.

BotheLaneFan 11-27-2018 07:50 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Golden Knights Bay-Bay!

fonzz41 11-27-2018 07:51 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brohan_Santana (Post 17315374)
I feel like whenever you post it’s like scripture. The words & rhetoric you serve is taken as the rule.

I’m glad you bring a balanced perspective

I meant to quote THIS with my last post, sorry! [emoji23]

Drakan’s like “what the hell?” [emoji23]



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kev87lads 11-27-2018 08:14 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Holy hell large emoji alert!!!!

Also, can I borrow those to describe the Flyers third period tonight. :lol Woof!!!!!

fonzz41 11-27-2018 08:20 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
I’m on tapatalk. Are they humangus big?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

barbogast 11-27-2018 08:29 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
The biggest. Hugely big.

drakan 11-27-2018 08:39 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 17315727)
To your 1st statement: okay bud

To your 2nd: agreed. no one here has said otherwise
Quote:
Hockey positions are not in a pissing contest with each other over which is more important. Goalies are necessary, yes. Forwards are necessary, yes. And defensemen (of which I'm a huge apologist) are absolutely crucial to the game.
In terms of crucialness, it's goalie by a mile and then center.

mr.MikeD 11-27-2018 08:44 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Goal or no? Refs say no. Homer says definitely a goal.
https://twitter.com/edmontonoilers/s...028412416?s=21

dmbetc 11-27-2018 09:02 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.MikeD (Post 17315803)
Goal or no? Refs say no. Homer says definitely a goal.
https://twitter.com/edmontonoilers/s...028412416?s=21
I would say yes, but it’s the nhl so nothing surprises me.

dmbetc 11-27-2018 09:36 PM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
The Kings are on a winning streak!! And Dustin has 4 goals in two games (Hat trick Saturday and OT winner tonight). What is going on!

Also, Cal Peterson has been phenomenal in net.

kelchlsm 11-28-2018 05:30 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
maybe its time to switch my photo to jeff skinner

Brohan_Santana 11-28-2018 05:53 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Sabres have just won *triple checks for the second time* 10 games in a row

scrock25 11-28-2018 06:02 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Sabres to win out?

These guys are good, scary good.

scrock25 11-28-2018 06:05 AM
Re: The NHL Thread: featuring Gritty, the regular season mascot champ.
 
Does Buffalo really have a guy on the team named Sobotka :lol :lol


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