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-   -   The NHL Thread (https://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

fonzz41 06-12-2017 12:19 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 16812445)
Just my 2 cents - but doesn't the ref usually try to hustle behind the net real quick in that situation? So he can try and find the puck in that 1-2 seconds? He had no effort, just blew it dead.



Yes. When there's stuff going on in front of the net, the ref needs to hustle over. 9/10 times that puck is in the pads of the goalie and play can safely be stopped, and that's what happened on this. He got complacent, and the consequences were obviously huge.

Lcsulla 06-12-2017 12:49 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thechad90000 (Post 16812275)
Tough to lose in such a bullshit way. I loved how well this team played all year. I knew there was something special about them even throughout the regular season and they really shined and showed how good they really were. Congrats to the Pens. I now officially hate your team but luck didn't win you games 2 and 5 so we had our chance. Lsculla FUCK YOU and FUCK THE HAWKS.

I am just going to let this one slide because I have never had any issues with you and you do not generally drive everyone nuts with meltdowns - plus I know sports can bring out the worst in people, myself included. That said in the future please refrain from personal attacks, swearing at mods, etc, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16812288)
Lol all the whining in here

Pens are better than Nashville, and that's no knock on Nashville

Go to espn.com - they are in full meltdown mode about a stolen cup and all that jazz. It is rather funny to read.

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveshookme (Post 16812289)
Let's be real, even if they made the correct call they still would have had to play more than half the game without giving up a goal, and then go into Pittsburgh and win.

Not saying it couldn't have happened but fuck, it would have been difficult.

That is what I was saying last night. No amount of claiming otherwise is going to change how I feel. If that goal had counted the Pens would still have had close to 40 minutes to tie it up and Pittsburgh has shown a resiliency this season that has amazed me considering how banged up they were (frankly I was stunned they made it that far) so I think they'd have eventually broken through somehow - they had an annoying knack of doing so this whole postseason. Additionally even if that was the lone goal of the the preds would still have to play a game 7 in Pittsburgh so these claims that one single call cost nashville the series is absurd IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16812316)
I can't believe you, of all people, are defending the refs right now. Unreal.



Brohan's ban was not deserved.

I am the first person to criticize a bad call but this was a little different. Pollack lost sight of the puck and did what refs are supposed to do in that situation, he blew the play dead. Sure - he was a little out of position and the whistle was early IMO but the rule stands. It was a mistake on his part one a non-reviewable call (admittedly at one of the worst times possible) but I believe he genuinely thought Murray had control of the puck and blew the play dead for that reason alone. Sure it sucks to lose a goal that way but personally I would rather have something like that cost me a goal because the rule is clearly defined as opposed to say losing a goal on a bogus interference call or a questionable offsides call. Believe me, I was no fan of either of those two teams but acting like that one call cheated nashville out of the cup is preposterous because the preds had plenty of other A+ chances they didn't cash in.

Regarding that ban, the guy was just ranting and raving (a rather constant theme for him) and contributing nothing to the thread. If you notice I also warned him first but he kept at it. The ban is only a week (the shortest we have on the menu) so acting like it was a game misconduct is simply not true, I just wanted to keep the thread on topic. I do not often try and justify my decisions as a mod but this was nothing personal - I barely know they guy so I do not like or dislike him, he was trolling and that is listed as something we ban people for.

daveshookme 06-12-2017 12:56 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16812569)
That is what I was saying last night. No amount of claiming otherwise is going to change how I feel. If that goal had counted the Pens would still have had close to 40 minutes to tie it up and Pittsburgh has shown a resiliency this season that has amazed me considering how banged up they were (frankly I was stunned they made it that far) so I think they'd have eventually broken through somehow - they had an annoying knack of doing so this whole postseason. Additionally even if that was the lone goal of the the preds would still have to play a game 7 in Pittsburgh so these claims that one single call cost nashville the series is absurd IMO.



I mean, there is SOME merit to the argument. I won't say it definitively cost them the series but give them a lead at home and maybe they buckle down and tighten up defensively and with Rinne's play it's possible they pull out the W, and then heading into game 7 anything can happen.

But it was a bullshit call, and even though the whistle blew the puck went in like a half second later, whoever it was that "put it in" was already in the motion of scoring and I think there should be a method in place to be able to count the goal. It was the right call given the rules, but the rules are wrong in this instance, IMO.

daveshookme 06-12-2017 12:57 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (Penns are garage league champs)
 
Side note: have they announced when the parade is? If it's Wednesday I may try to get down there.

Lcsulla 06-12-2017 01:23 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daveshookme (Post 16812579)
I mean, there is SOME merit to the argument. I won't say it definitively cost them the series but give them a lead at home and maybe they buckle down and tighten up defensively and with Rinne's play it's possible they pull out the W, and then heading into game 7 anything can happen.

But it was a bullshit call, and even though the whistle blew the puck went in like a half second later, whoever it was that "put it in" was already in the motion of scoring and I think there should be a method in place to be able to count the goal. It was the right call given the rules, but the rules are wrong in this instance, IMO.

I can agree it was a quick whistle but that one play alone cannot convince me that a single borderline call cost them the game, let alone the series. All our teams have had goals disallowed for various reasons (admittedly rarely in the SCF) but as I said I would rather have a goal disallowed on a clear cut play that was in line with the rules than lose one due to say questionable interference or offsides.

barbogast 06-12-2017 01:26 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16812569)
I am just going to let this one slide because I have never had any issues with you and you do not generally drive everyone nuts with meltdowns - plus I know sports can bring out the worst in people, myself included. That said in the future please refrain from personal attacks, swearing at mods, etc, etc.



Go to espn.com - they are in full meltdown mode about a stolen cup and all that jazz. It is rather funny to read.



That is what I was saying last night. No amount of claiming otherwise is going to change how I feel. If that goal had counted the Pens would still have had close to 40 minutes to tie it up and Pittsburgh has shown a resiliency this season that has amazed me considering how banged up they were (frankly I was stunned they made it that far) so I think they'd have eventually broken through somehow - they had an annoying knack of doing so this whole postseason. Additionally even if that was the lone goal of the the preds would still have to play a game 7 in Pittsburgh so these claims that one single call cost nashville the series is absurd IMO.



I am the first person to criticize a bad call but this was a little different. Pollack lost sight of the puck and did what refs are supposed to do in that situation, he blew the play dead. Sure - he was a little out of position and the whistle was early IMO but the rule stands. It was a mistake on his part one a non-reviewable call (admittedly at one of the worst times possible) but I believe he genuinely thought Murray had control of the puck and blew the play dead for that reason alone. Sure it sucks to lose a goal that way but personally I would rather have something like that cost me a goal because the rule is clearly defined as opposed to say losing a goal on a bogus interference call or a questionable offsides call. Believe me, I was no fan of either of those two teams but acting like that one call cheated nashville out of the cup is preposterous because the preds had plenty of other A+ chances they didn't cash in.

Regarding that ban, the guy was just ranting and raving (a rather constant theme for him) and contributing nothing to the thread. If you notice I also warned him first but he kept at it. The ban is only a week (the shortest we have on the menu) so acting like it was a game misconduct is simply not true, I just wanted to keep the thread on topic. I do not often try and justify my decisions as a mod but this was nothing personal - I barely know they guy so I do not like or dislike him, he was trolling and that is listed as something we ban people for.

After how you constantly bash, berate and even threaten violence (which of course you aren't gonna act on) towards referees, I do not buy your calmness

If that was the Hawks, you would be in screaming cocksucker, Stevie Wonder and proposing decapitation via hockey stick. Let's be real here.

I know that everything you've said is correct, but I can't believe it's coming from you.

thechad90000 06-12-2017 01:31 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16812569)
I am just going to let this one slide because I have never had any issues with you and you do not generally drive everyone nuts with meltdowns - plus I know sports can bring out the worst in people, myself included. That said in the future please refrain from personal attacks, swearing at mods, etc, etc.

Got it. Emotion was running high last night and the first comment I see is a bunch of pro-Pens comments from a Hawks fan. My bad.

I still stand by the Fuck the Hawks though.

thechad90000 06-12-2017 01:34 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16812607)
I can agree it was a quick whistle but that one play alone cannot convince me that a single borderline call cost them the game, let alone the series. All our teams have had goals disallowed for various reasons (admittedly rarely in the SCF) but as I said I would rather have a goal disallowed on a clear cut play that was in line with the rules than lose one due to say questionable interference or offsides.

It's not a single call and it's not borderline. There were two close games in this series and both were one goal games where the Pens won after Nashville had disallowed goals. Game 1, the disallowed goal obviously changes the momentum of a game. But forget about Game 1. This was a 0-0 game until 1:30 in the 3rd. Pens would have had an empty net had it been 1-0. It's not theoretical. The no goal cost us the game. Sure we had chances after; but it changes the entire complexion of a game.

TMoore4075 06-12-2017 01:35 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters!)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16779136)
I'll say this: there is precisely zero point zero chance that MAF negotiated for the NMC only to waive it for nothing later

So apparently he waived it for nothing to allow him to be taken by Vegas.

jrkarger 06-12-2017 01:37 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters!)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16812623)
So apparently he waived it for nothing to allow him to be taken by Vegas.

Did this just happen?

EDIT: Found this: http://www.pensburgh.com/2017/6/12/1...-rumors-fleury

Lcsulla 06-12-2017 01:38 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16812612)
After how you constantly bash, berate and even threaten violence (which of course you aren't gonna act on) towards referees, I do not buy your calmness

The difference is that I let it go and just stop posting after one or two rants. It was easy to be calm actually, I am no fan of either of those teams. :lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechad90000 (Post 16812617)
Got it. Emotion was running high last night and the first comment I see is a bunch of pro-Pens comments from a Hawks fan. My bad.

I still stand by the Fuck the Hawks though.

No worries, issue is dead. As for your hating the Hawks, doesn't bug me - you are free to love and hate whatever teams you wish, same as all of us.

PS... my comments were not really pro-pens per se - truthfully I cannot stand that franchise for the simple reason that they tormented my Whalers for the first 20 years of my life. That said, I respect the way they played this season and I have a problem when people are constantly making the absurd claim that one quick whistle cost nashville the game and the series because even if it counted there were still nearly 40 minutes left to play last night and if the preds had won they'd still face a game 7 on the road.

YouNeverKnow25 06-12-2017 01:40 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters!)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16812623)
So apparently he waived it for nothing to allow him to be taken by Vegas.

not forcing a buyout is not the same thing as "for nothing"

TMoore4075 06-12-2017 01:42 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters!)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jrkarger (Post 16812626)
Did this just happen?

EDIT: Found this: http://www.pensburgh.com/2017/6/12/1...-rumors-fleury

I saw it somewhere earlier today too. No one ever said he could waive it for the expansion draft, like you can for a trade, so just assumed he couldn't. If this is true, it's the best solution for everyone.

Lcsulla 06-12-2017 01:43 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thechad90000 (Post 16812620)
This was a 0-0 game until 1:30 in the 3rd. Pens would have had an empty net had it been 1-0. It's not theoretical. The no goal cost us the game. Sure we had chances after; but it changes the entire complexion of a game.

That assumes the preds could have prevented the pens from tying it up though, definitely not something you could have counted on. Yeah, Rinnne and the D were playing well but the Pens were getting good chances and with the talent of their offense I do not believe it is a stretch to think they could have cashed in a chance and tied the game.

If I was in your shoes I would be pissed off too but since I am a fan of neither team it is probably easier for me to see it objectively in context. It is a sucky way to lose but shit happens in sports, we have all seen that.

Dramageek 06-12-2017 01:43 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daveshookme (Post 16812580)
Side note: have they announced when the parade is? If it's Wednesday I may try to get down there.

I've heard Wednesday. It will be going right in front of my building (the Gulf Tower) so I'm pretty stoked about that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by thechad90000 (Post 16812620)
It's not a single call and it's not borderline. There were two close games in this series and both were one goal games where the Pens won after Nashville had disallowed goals. Game 1, the disallowed goal obviously changes the momentum of a game. But forget about Game 1. This was a 0-0 game until 1:30 in the 3rd. Pens would have had an empty net had it been 1-0. It's not theoretical. The no goal cost us the game. Sure we had chances after; but it changes the entire complexion of a game.

The only thing about this is that you assume the Pens would not have scored. Given the way things were going, that's a reasonable assumption. However, we just don't know. Maybe the Pens get a power play. Maybe the Pens tie it up with an empty net, and the Preds lose in overtime. We will never know.

daveshookme 06-12-2017 01:45 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (Penns are garage league champs)
 
Yeah I'm just reading now. The mayor said they will have one but no details get. Last year it was a Sunday win and a Wednesday parade, so looks good so far. I'm off Wednesday and may come down to visit my sister. Guess I'll start looking at flights today.

YouNeverKnow25 06-12-2017 01:46 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (Penns are garage league champs)
 
no you guys the predators absolutely win the imaginary game that took place after the imaginary goal

hailtopitt 06-12-2017 02:39 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DMBzilla (Post 16812301)
"They had other chances to score" is such a bullshit argument. Both teams had chances all game. The ref blew the call when it mattered and it cost Nashville the game, and series, period. To lose that way is horrible.


Literally everything is wrong in this post.

You can try to discredit the Pens all you want. But you can't. No one can.

Penguins have had clear cut goals taken off the board in these playoffs too but found a way to win.

Heart of a champion. Crosby's legacy is untouchable. Deal with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 16812405)
Told you so ;)



This was before the playoffs even started!





















This guy got it.







Only Pens fan with faith early.







:lol I bet you have never been so happy to be so wrong.



no Letang = No problem







:lol :lol :lol :lol







When you have a feeling, just role with it. I wish I put money on that feeling now.







Just getting silly at this point :lol







Still can't believe all the doubt the Pens fans had even in round 1







Supper confident once his team wins it all :lol



In all seriousness though, congrats Pens fans! Enjoy this as it is the best run in your teams history and it wont last forever. Crosby has cemented his legacy for sure.
.


Why all the lol guys? I pretty much called my shot there. Still very surprised they repeated but I also said it was possible if a huge upset took place.

Nashville swept Chicago, there's your upset. I firmly believe the pens would've been too tired/depleted to beat a healthy, hot Blackhawks team in the final. But Nashville helped us by winning the west and just couldn't match the pens talent, speed and experience.

hailtopitt 06-12-2017 02:44 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by daveshookme (Post 16812579)
I mean, there is SOME merit to the argument. I won't say it definitively cost them the series but give them a lead at home and maybe they buckle down and tighten up defensively and with Rinne's play it's possible they pull out the W, and then heading into game 7 anything can happen.

But it was a bullshit call, and even though the whistle blew the puck went in like a half second later, whoever it was that "put it in" was already in the motion of scoring and I think there should be a method in place to be able to count the goal. It was the right call given the rules, but the rules are wrong in this instance, IMO.



It can't be "the right call given the rules" and a "bullshit call" at the same time. Can't have your cake and it eat it too.

Ref made the right call. That play happens all the time. Sucks for Nashville it happened in the SCF but that's the rule. Every team has been screwed by it before at some point.

Need to learn how to move on from it and overcome that adversity. That's how you become a champion.

TMoore4075 06-12-2017 02:46 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (Penns are garage league champs)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jrkarger (Post 16812626)
Did this just happen?

EDIT: Found this: http://www.pensburgh.com/2017/6/12/1...-rumors-fleury

@renlavoietva : Marc-André Fleury accepted the Penguins request in February to waive his no move clause for the expansion draft. Only for Las Vegas.
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16812631)
not forcing a buyout is not the same thing as "for nothing"

A buyout would have served him better because then he'd get paid a big chunk and he could sign with whoever he wanted and your argument then was that he would look out for himself first and not really care about the Pens. Him waiving it benefits the Pens more than him.

daveshookme 06-12-2017 02:47 PM

The NHL Thread (Penns are garage league champs)
 
Ugh the only flight that gets me there before the 1130 parade start Wednesday means I have to catch the 0600 out of Albany. Fucking early.

Edit: this is based on last years 1130 start. No details on this years yet.

jrkarger 06-12-2017 02:50 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (Penns are garage league champs)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16812707)
It can't be "the right call given the rules" and a "bullshit call" at the same time. Can't have your cake and it eat it too.

Ref made the right call. That play happens all the time. Sucks for Nashville it happened in the SCF but that's the rule. Every team has been screwed by it before at some point.

Need to learn how to move on from it and overcome that adversity. That's how you become a champion.

You can even make the "argument" that the refs tried to make up that call for the rest of the game. No penalties on the Preds in an entire game?

The Pred had 3:12 of consecutive power play in the 3rd and that included 0:30+ of 5 on 3. Couldn't get it done. There was one sequence during the end of the 5 on 3 that subban and someone else just played catch for about 0:10.

barbogast 06-12-2017 02:53 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16812639)
no you guys the predators absolutely win the imaginary game that took place after the imaginary goal

Pretty much no one is saying this at all but ok

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16812707)
It can't be "the right call given the rules" and a "bullshit call" at the same time. Can't have your cake and it eat it too.

Ref made the right call. That play happens all the time. Sucks for Nashville it happened in the SCF but that's the rule. Every team has been screwed by it before at some point.

Need to learn how to move on from it and overcome that adversity. That's how you become a champion.

The point is, it shouldn't happen all the time. There's ways to make it not happen. Pretty easily, too.

The NHL should be embarrassed that they have to deal with this today.

Garage league strikes again. That's all anyone is really saying.

jrkarger 06-12-2017 02:55 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16812724)
Pretty much no one is saying this at all but ok



The point is, it shouldn't happen all the time. There's ways to make it not happen. Pretty easily, too.

The NHL should be embarrassed that they have to deal with this today.

Garage league strikes again. That's all anyone is really saying.

I'm still trying to figure out how this is easily avoided when a ref on the ice whistles the play dead.

barbogast 06-12-2017 02:56 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (Penns are garage league champs)
 
Also I liked the thread title better with the (where the President's trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't) better than the garage leauge one. I vote we go with that.

barbogast 06-12-2017 02:58 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jrkarger (Post 16812730)
I'm still trying to figure out how this is easily avoided when a ref on the ice whistles the play dead.

There are cameras all over the building

Save the response about "but the play is dead so that means all of a sudden Im blind and can't process things" nonsense.

The puck wasn't covered. Period. Everyone in the building minus the one that blew the whistle knew that. So let's fix the fucking rulebook. It's a common sense thing. That's what I'm trying to get at.

Just because "the play is dead" doesn't mean I lose ability to see and respond to what is happening. As reasonable people, we should probably implement a system that keeps this from happening. It doesn't need to.

Again, the fact that this happened is textbook NHL stuff and now they have to hear about it all day. Which is what they deserve. Because that was ridiculous and far too important of a game for something like that to have happened.

barbogast 06-12-2017 02:59 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (Penns are garage league champs)
 
I'm not sure why you don't think this can be easily avoided, kargs

jrkarger 06-12-2017 03:02 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16812739)
There are cameras all over the building

Save the response about "but the play is dead so that means all of a sudden Im blind and can't process things" nonsense.

The puck wasn't covered. Period. Everyone in the building minus the one that blew the whistle knew that. So let's fix the fucking rulebook. It's a common sense thing. That's what I'm trying to get at.

Just because "the play is dead" doesn't mean I lose ability to see and respond to what is happening. As reasonable people, we should probably implement a system that keeps this from happening. It doesn't need to.

Again, the fact that this happened is textbook NHL stuff and now they have to hear about it all day. Which is what they deserve. Because that was ridiculous and far too important of a game for something like that to have happened.

How on earth to you write something like this into the rule book?

A whistle blows but how long to do the players get to use "common sense" and play on?

A whistle blows and the goalie pulls up but the shooter doesn't... still a good goal?

I'm not saying it was a good call at all. I'm saying there is nothing you can do once a whistle blows. Play is dead.

jrkarger 06-12-2017 03:03 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (Penns are garage league champs)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16812741)
I'm not sure why you don't think this can be easily avoided, kargs

See my above post. How would you legislate something like that... what would be allowable after a whistle blows and for how long?

barbogast 06-12-2017 03:05 PM

Re: The NHL Thread (where the Presidents Trophy matters but covering the puck doesn't
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jrkarger (Post 16812748)
How on earth to you write something like this into the rule book?

A whistle blows but how long to do the players get to use "common sense" and play on?

A whistle blows and the goalie pulls up but the shooter doesn't... still a good goal?

This is lunacy.

I'm not saying it was a good call at all. I'm saying there is nothing you can do once a whistle blows. Play is dead. I don't understand why this is a difficult concept.

I'm saying let's exclude the puck being covered thing as irreversible damage. If the puck wasn't covered, and video replay can prove that, write the rule that the goal therefore counts.

There are rules that require a bit of subjectivity all throughout the rulebook. This can be cut and dry enough that, even with that subjectivity, a rule can be written.

Rule 1230497123047 part a) if the ref blows the whistle and negates a goal because he believes the puck was covered, but video replay proves that the puck was not covered, the goal shall stand.

Not sure why that's a difficult concept.


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