Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 15832839)

Want outside opinions. A big debate on what site is whether Fedorov's #91 should hang at Joe Louis, or the new arena when it's ready. One guy on the comments was VERY vocal and kept pointing to stats and nothing about Fedorov's personal relationship with Illitch should come into play. He then tried to say to the people who said the number won't or shouldn't be retired that what if Datsyuk retired after this year would you retire his? Which isn't going to happen and even if it did, not at all close to the same thing that went down with Sergei. Fedorov is one of the best, although he probably could have been even better. He helped this team win 3 Cups, that ain't nothing, and by all accounts liked his teammates. But there were the selfish moments. Wouldn't sign after 97 and eventually signed an offer sheet with Carolina (owned by one of the Illitch's "enemies" Karmanos) with a very front loaded contract and the Wings matched so forcing him to stay. He then was offered at one time $10mil per year and $8mil per year from the Wings during the 02-03 season and Illitch met with him personally a few times I believe. Then he signs with the Ducks (totally his right don't get me wrong) for the same money that the Wings were offering. Fans were pretty pissed by this, although I wasn't surprised, and it seemed to make Illitch mad too. Things have calmed down and he played in the alumni game here but all of that is a lot to an owner who values loyalty. I mean Yzerman got a job here and Maltby, Draper, Chelios and Jiri Fischer all have jobs in the organization. What do you guys think? Should he or will he get his # retired? Obviously I know not being around all of this is hard to make a judgement but was curious.

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15832870)

I remember talking about this here maybe a couple years ago, and I think we all kind of agreed that players get their numbers retired for two reasons:

1) They were an NHL legend. This is usually qualified by numbers. Gretzky, Brodeur, Orr, Howe - guys like that.

2) They were a team legend. Usually reserved for long-time members of the club who may not have been stars, but made a big impact on the organization. Guys like Ken Daneyko and Adam Foote.

And of course it goes without saying that it's even better when guys manage to meet both qualifications.

And frankly, this is a team-by-team thing. Newer franchises that may not have been around for as long may be more likely to retire a team-legend's number than a more storied franchise. For example, I don't know if Foote's number would get retired had he played his whole career with Boston or Montreal. They've got enough NHL legends hanging in their rafters that there's kind of a higher standard. But on a "newer" club like Colorado? Hell yeah.

As for Federov, does he fit into either one of those above-mentioned "legend" categories? I tend to think not. Was he a VERY good player who contributed to the team's success during his tenure? Absolutely. But I'm not sure he's achieved that legendary status that puts him in the same sentence as Yzerman, Howe, Lidstrom, and the other game-changers who hang in Detroit's rafters.

But what do I know, I'm just an Avs fan! I mean, we retired Bourque's sweater after only a season and a half of him playing with the team!

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 15832883)

The same guy on those comments tried to use Ray as an example because he had his number retired with the Bruins and Avs. First the Avs one is weird, sorry Matty it just is. But Ray left the Bruins to win a Cup late in his career. Not after winning 3 and when the team was good and wanted him to stay. Not even close to the same thing.

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15832870)

I remember talking about this here maybe a couple years ago, and I think we all kind of agreed that players get their numbers retired for two reasons:

1) They were an NHL legend. This is usually qualified by numbers. Gretzky, Brodeur, Orr, Howe - guys like that.

2) They were a team legend. Usually reserved for long-time members of the club who may not have been stars, but made a big impact on the organization. Guys like Ken Daneyko and Adam Foote.

And of course it goes without saying that it's even better when guys manage to meet both qualifications.

And frankly, this is a team-by-team thing. Newer franchises that may not have been around for as long may be more likely to retire a team-legend's number than a more storied franchise. For example, I don't know if Foote's number would get retired had he played his whole career with Boston or Montreal. They've got enough NHL legends hanging in their rafters that there's kind of a higher standard. But on a "newer" club like Colorado? Hell yeah.

As for Federov, does he fit into either one of those above-mentioned "legend" categories? I tend to think not. Was he a VERY good player who contributed to the team's success during his tenure? Absolutely. But I'm not sure he's achieved that legendary status that puts him in the same sentence as Yzerman, Howe, Lidstrom, and the other game-changers who hang in Detroit's rafters.

But what do I know, I'm just an Avs fan! I mean, we retired Bourque's sweater after only a season and a half of him playing with the team!

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15832955)

No need to apologize. I think it's strange myself. I'll give two half-hearted excuses.

1) A PR-move. When a new-ish team like the Avs has the opportunity to retire the number of an all-time great, they're going to take it.

2) His value to the team during that season and a half was incalculable. His "quest for the Cup" alone pretty much willed the team to the Cup. I don't know if they win it without him that year, and I don't mean just in terms of his contributions on the ice. Sure they had an all-star roster of Sakic, Forsberg, Blake, Roy, Drury, etc., but "doing it for Ray" was a very tangible rallying point.

But yeah, I have no problem admitting it's strange. Not complaining, and certainly not campaigning that they take it down or something, but strange nonetheless.

Originally Posted by kev87lads (Post 15832991)

The Feds thing is similar to Lindros in Philly. When he was there, he was a beast and racked up the points. Ended kind of badly. Time heals wounds. Lindros finally returned and played in the alumni game and now comes back for all of the special events. (I.e. he'll be there tonight for Desjardins retirement. (Not retiring his number though))

I like Matty's "criteria" as it were. I'd probably retire Feds number if I'm a Wings fan. I know there were a lot of guys and a lot of guys there for awhile during the Wings run. But the three Cups, I'd put him right behind 19 and 5 as far as importance.

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 15833068)

I think Federov is right on that fine line for Detroit. Like Tim said, I remember things were a little rocky between the club/fans and Federov when he left. But he was a very important piece of those Cup teams back in the 90s. At this point, I think enough time has passed to consider it. But the other thing to remember is how much time Federov spent elsewhere, if I remember right he was only a Wing for about half his career, correct? I don't know, that's a tough one. I think if it wasn't the prestigious Detroit Red Wings it's an easy yes, but since it is Detroit it makes a little tougher. At this point though, sounds like the relationship had mended enough where I'd say go for it.

And while we're talking about retiring numbers, fucking retire 12 in Washington already. For god's sake, what are they waiting for.

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 15833116)

Wasn't Federov an Oiler for a minute or am I dreaming?

edit: just looked. I'm dreaming. Forgive my ignorance

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 15833312)

Geez, leave the thread for a couple hours and the old farts start talking about baby puke and piss.

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 15833116)

Wasn't Federov an Oiler for a minute or am I dreaming?

edit: just looked. I'm dreaming. Forgive my ignorance

Originally Posted by bradshaw06 (Post 15833396)

Crosby just fought Dubinsky.

Originally Posted by Roose13 (Post 15833384)

Maybe you're thinking of the Ducks?

Or Chris Pronger. He was there one season and took them to the Cup :lol

Originally Posted by bradshaw06 (Post 15833396)

Crosby just fought Dubinsky.

Originally Posted by salrx95 (Post 15833415)

Standing ovation from the crowd, too. They were happy to see some fight vs a division opponent.

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 15833477)

Nick Backstrom for Hart. Starting the campaign now

Originally Posted by salrx95 (Post 15833490)

You do know he isn't even the mvp of his team, right?