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mr.MikeD 12-08-2021 08:19 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
So conflicted about hockey. On one night, a crazy high skill play, (the type that the league totally changes its rules to avoid in the playoffs), and a debate about whether the hit that scrambled a dudes brain for the second time was legal or not. Any more of those and you have to wonder if Jujhar should keep playing.
Oh and Oilers fans are learning about “regression to the mean”

Antiramie 12-08-2021 09:52 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 18092079)
So I understand being upset about the hit. No one wants to see that and I really feel for the guy. I also wouldn’t have a huge issue with the NHL taking a harder stance on hits and checking like that by making rule changes.

That said, that hit was clean under the current rules. I saw hits like that every few games playing hockey all through grade school to College and I have been clocked a few times myself for having my head down. It is first “rule” of hockey when you start playing. Keep your head up.

I think people watch hits like this on slow motion and convince themselves it is dirty the more they watch it over and over in slow speeds. To me, the hit is a good clean hard hit and was delivered exactly how I was taught to hit when I was playing. His elbow didn’t come up, nor did his shoulder any more than someone bracing for an impact. He also didn’t leave his feet. Unfortunately, the receiving player had his head down and was bent over a bit which created a major head impact.

The issue I have with the hit had nothing to do with the hit itself, but the judgement to throw the hit to begin with. The problem is that hockey is such a fast game and the hit happened so fast. If Trouba could take that hit back he would I bet. It’s hard to make a call at that speed. Most times, that is a good open ice hit and the game moves on with the Rangers establishing the checking game. Sometimes, a player has his head down and it becomes a horrifying scene.

Last thing to keep in mind is that Trouba is a tough player, but really has no history of being a dirty play (at least in NY, I don’t know about his time with the Jets). I really don’t think he intended it to be such a massive blow that it wound up to be.

Just my thoughts. I hate seeing people hurt, but hockey is a tough game and this hit was pretty standard. It was just at a rough place and time for Khaira.
That’s 100% not a clean hit. Trouba maybe didn’t intend to make primary contact with Khaira’s jaw…but he did. That’s a textbook bad hit these days. And if you can’t prevent making contact where you don’t want to, you shouldn’t be attempting the hit. It’s exactly the type of play the league is trying to get out of the game. It’s reminiscent of what Scott Stevens used to do back in the day. It doesn’t belong in today’s game.

aeroshady 12-08-2021 10:10 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiramie (Post 18092203)
That’s 100% not a clean hit. Trouba maybe didn’t intend to make primary contact with Khaira’s jaw…but he did. That’s a textbook bad hit these days. And if you can’t prevent making contact where you don’t want to, you shouldn’t be attempting the hit. It’s exactly the type of play the league is trying to get out of the game. It’s reminiscent of what Scott Stevens used to do back in the day. It doesn’t belong in today’s game.
Sorry to disagree with you 100% on this, but under the current rules, that hit is clean and within the rules. There was no penalty assessed and it doesn’t look as of now that the NHL is going to take further action. Being a bad hit and legal hit are not necessarily the same thing these days.

Saying you don’t like the hit and it should be out of the NHL is very different from saying it was not a clean hit. Players in that situation don’t have the time to think “is this going to make contact where I don’t want it to? Is he looking and have his head up? Maybe he doesn’t? Okay I won’t hit.” That just isn’t how it works and anyone had played contact hockey knows that.

If we want it out of the game, and I’m not against saying we should remove it, the NHL essentially needs to remove checking in a lot of areas of the game. In this case, you are saying open ice hits shouldn’t be allowed. They are the ones that typically have a high risk of this happening.

If the game moves in that direction, fine, but until then, players are going to play hard. I said earlier my issue was with the decision to make that hit, but in reality, unless we ban open ice hits, I can’t be mad at him for throwing it. He didn’t skate across the ice like Scott Stevens did. It happens fast and Trouba basically stood his ground and stepped up. It just sucked that Khaira didn’t see him at all in time to prevent a massive impact.

If that hit happens in Tampa and the player who got rocked kept his head up and pops right back up, the entire lightning fan base would be cheering their heads off and buzzing about the huge hit. No one would think twice about it.

Point being; the player throwing the same hit may either be celebrated as in the example above, or scrutinized like Trouba and the only difference is if the player being hit keeps his head up or not.

Antiramie 12-08-2021 10:25 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 18092213)
Sorry to disagree with you 100% on this, but under the current rules, that hit is clean and within the rules. There was no penalty assessed and it doesn’t look as of now that the NHL is going to take further action. Being a bad hit and legal hit are not necessarily the same thing these days.

Saying you don’t like the hit and it should be out of the NHL is very different from saying it was not a clean hit. Players in that situation don’t have the time to think “is this going to make contact where I don’t want it to? Is he looking and have his head up? Maybe he doesn’t? Okay I won’t hit.” That just isn’t how it works and anyone had played contact hockey knows that.

If we want it out of the game, and I’m not against saying we should remove it, the NHL essentially needs to remove checking in a lot of areas of the game. In this case, you are saying open ice hits shouldn’t be allowed. They are the ones that typically have a high risk of this happening.

If the game moves in that direction, fine, but until then, players are going to play hard. I said earlier my issue was with the decision to make that hit, but in reality, unless we ban open ice hits, I can’t be mad at him for throwing it. He didn’t skate across the ice like Scott Stevens did. It happens fast and Trouba basically stood his ground and stepped up. It just sucked that Khaira didn’t see him at all in time to prevent a massive impact.

If that hit happens in Tampa and the player who got rocked kept his head up and pops right back up, the entire lightning fan base would be cheering their heads off and buzzing about the huge hit. No one would think twice about it.

Point being; the player throwing the same hit may either be celebrated as in the example above, or scrutinized like Trouba and the only difference is if the player being hit keeps his head up or not.
He made primary contact with the head, which is illegal. You can make the argument that checking someone that high who has their head down is targeting, which is the second bullet point for an illegal hit to the head.

The NHL possibly not pursuing punishment for Trouba is meaningless...the DoPs has proven itself to be a joke.

If a Tampa player made that same hit, I'd be saying it wasn't clean too. If the head wasn't the primary area of contact, I'd totally be jumping up and cheering. One of our guys knocking a player out cold before he hits the ice would leave me shaking my head just like I'm doing now.

However the league enforces the rule, as much of the onus should be on the checking player to not throw a high check against a guy who's had his head down for 2 seconds as the guy for having his head down. The goal should be to protect players and prevent hits like this happening...not to say "welp, it's your fault you have brain damage because you had your head down". It's an archaic mentality and those hits need to be punished out of the game. If you can't not make primary contact with a dude's head if he has his head down, don't check the guy.

aeroshady 12-08-2021 10:44 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiramie (Post 18092220)
He made primary contact with the head, which is illegal. You can make the argument that checking someone that high who has their head down is targeting, which is the second bullet point for an illegal hit to the head.

The NHL possibly not pursuing punishment for Trouba is meaningless...the DoPs has proven itself to be a joke.

If a Tampa player made that same hit, I'd be saying it wasn't clean too. If the head wasn't the primary area of contact, I'd totally be jumping up and cheering. One of our guys knocking a player out cold before he hits the ice would leave me shaking my head just like I'm doing now.

However the league enforces the rule, as much of the onus should be on the checking player to not throw a high check against a guy who's had his head down for 2 seconds as the guy for having his head down. The goal should be to protect players and prevent hits like this happening...not to say "welp, it's your fault you have brain damage because you had your head down". It's an archaic mentality and those hits need to be punished out of the game. If you can't not make primary contact with a dude's head if he has his head down, don't check the guy.
I see where you are coming from, I really do. That said, I don't agree that it was a high hit targeting Khaira's head. Khaira slightly hunched over with his head down for a split second. As a checking player, I wouldn't have time to think before starting my hit on that. There is no way targeting should be called on that play last night.

Also, you have to understand that players are trained from an early age to finish their checks and hit hard. Trouba did exactly that last night and did it how we are taught to hit during practices. It sucks that Khaira was in a compromised position in that exact situation, but I really feel like Trouba can't control that.

What he can control is the decision to throw the hit to begin with. Last night my first instinct was that I hated the he went for that hit. But after watching it at full speed, I was not nearly as upset about it. The play happened so fast and checking is still a big part of hockey for now. A big hit like that can change the momentum of a game (and arguably for better or worse did last night). However, until the NHL decides we don't want those types of hits to ever happen and thus decides they are removing open ice hits from the game, you can't really fault a player for making them.

I have been very vocal about wanting to see head injuries reduced as much as possible. I just don't know where the line is in hockey. These guys know how physical of a game hockey is and there is not a single player in the NHL that doesn't understand that they need to keep their heads up. That saying exists for a reason. I am really back and forth on this because I hate to see injuries, but at some point we are also saying we want to change the sport completely to a non-checking men's league all about skill. It might be "archaic," but deep down the majority of us do need to admit that we love the physical side of the game and understand that it may have consequences. It is much like auto racing in that aspect.

Route_2 12-08-2021 11:01 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Going to my first NHL game tomorrow night. Kraken v. Jets. Pretty excited.

Antiramie 12-08-2021 11:03 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 18092228)
I see where you are coming from, I really do. That said, I don't agree that it was a high hit targeting Khaira's head. Khaira slightly hunched over with his head down for a split second. As a checking player, I wouldn't have time to think before starting my hit on that. There is no way targeting should be called on that play last night.

Also, you have to understand that players are trained from an early age to finish their checks and hit hard. Trouba did exactly that last night and did it how we are taught to hit during practices. It sucks that Khaira was in a compromised position in that exact situation, but I really feel like Trouba can't control that.

What he can control is the decision to throw the hit to begin with. Last night my first instinct was that I hated the he went for that hit. But after watching it at full speed, I was not nearly as upset about it. The play happened so fast and checking is still a big part of hockey for now. A big hit like that can change the momentum of a game (and arguably for better or worse did last night). However, until the NHL decides we don't want those types of hits to ever happen and thus decides they are removing open ice hits from the game, you can't really fault a player for making them.

I have been very vocal about wanting to see head injuries reduced as much as possible. I just don't know where the line is in hockey. These guys know how physical of a game hockey is and there is not a single player in the NHL that doesn't understand that they need to keep their heads up. That saying exists for a reason. I am really back and forth on this because I hate to see injuries, but at some point we are also saying we want to change the sport completely to a non-checking men's league all about skill. It might be "archaic," but deep down the majority of us do need to admit that we love the physical side of the game and understand that it may have consequences. It is much like auto racing in that aspect.
I know where you're coming from as well. But like I said before, if you want to make a splash open ice hit and run the risk of hitting someone head first, you should be subject to punishment. At least if the league truly cares about head injuries. Would that decrease open ice hits? Sure, but they're so few and far between these days it really wouldn't create much of an impact on the game anyway.

As much as I love the physicality of hockey, I don't love it enough to where I want to see hits like what happened last night take place.

aeroshady 12-08-2021 11:13 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Antiramie (Post 18092242)
I know where you're coming from as well. But like I said before, if you want to make a splash open ice hit and run the risk of hitting someone head first, you should be subject to punishment. At least if the league truly cares about head injuries. Would that decrease open ice hits? Sure, but they're so few and far between these days it really wouldn't create much of an impact on the game anyway.

As much as I love the physicality of hockey, I don't love it enough to where I want to see hits like what happened last night take place.
I get it and I respect it if you are in favor of changing the rules to take them out of the game. I am fine with that if the league decided to get serious about removing them from the game. Until then, I feel like Trouba didn't do anything "wrong" with the way things are. I definitely agree that I probably wouldn't miss open ice hits if they left the game forever. You could still keep hits along the board.

I just wonder if we are heading down a path towards a non-check league one day though.

aeroshady 12-08-2021 11:16 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Route_2 (Post 18092240)
Going to my first NHL game tomorrow night. Kraken v. Jets. Pretty excited.
Have fun! I went to my first NHL game...of the season...last Friday in Seattle. Got to see the Kraken beat the Oilers. Climate Arena is pretty ugly from the outside, but was really nice on the inside. Prices for the concessions are crazy expensive though. I really liked that the Kraken app allows you to link your tickets and gives you free passes for the public transpiration to and from the arena. We took the monorail from downtown and it was really easy.

Enjoy!

Route_2 12-08-2021 11:22 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 18092258)
Have fun! I went to my first NHL game...of the season...last Friday in Seattle. Got to see the Kraken beat the Oilers. Climate Arena is pretty ugly from the outside, but was really nice on the inside. Prices for the concessions are crazy expensive though. I really liked that the Kraken app allows you to link your tickets and gives you free passes for the public transpiration to and from the arena. We took the monorail from downtown and it was really easy.

Enjoy!
Nice. Didn't know about the app and free passes. Will check that out today. :thumbsup

Not surprised on the concessions. I want to try the Shaq chicken.

TypicalBilly14 12-08-2021 07:04 PM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
TNT guys giving it to Rick Tocchet. What happened, he was late to the pre game show?

dmbfd15 12-08-2021 07:31 PM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Stars going for a team record 8th win in a row!! Go north stars!!!

BotheLaneFan 12-08-2021 08:22 PM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Lol at the Coyotes being poors.

dmbfd15 12-08-2021 08:23 PM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
“That’s old Las Vegas” (referencing downtown) :lol :lol

If anyone hasn’t been in last 10 years, downtown Vegas has been totally revamped. Golden Nugget is maybe my favorite hotel to hang and do so reasonably priced gambling. Plus the canopy is an experience in itself and the walk from canopy to container park has a lot of badass little bars. Banger Brewing is a very underrated spot.

Roose13 12-09-2021 04:44 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Yotes gonna Yote

https://www.google.com/amp/s/sports....021520316.html

aeroshady 12-09-2021 07:07 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
The Rangers v Aves game was really interesting last night. I think these two teams are very similarly built. The first period was like watching two team mirror each other in style of play. It was noticeable that the Rangers were turning the puck over a lot early and often due to some fatigue from playing in Chicago the night before. All of that considered, this might be the happiest I have been in a 7-3 loss. They looked competitive even after the crazy back-to-back with travel.

Obviously the Aves are a very good team, and to be honest, I marked this game on the calendar for weeks as a probable loss due to schedule and talent on Colorado. That said, the Rangers were slightly flat, but could have won that game with either of their top to goalies in net, but definitely Shesty. No disrespect to Huska, but he is an AHL goalie at best and was making his NHL debut against a top team. He was a bit of a sieve and in the second period let in 5 goals on only 13 shots. That just doesn't happen 95% of the time when Shesty is in.

The Rangers special teams were great again, the team scored 3 goals in the game and showed lots of fight until the wheels came off for Huska in net. Sign me up for the game against the Aves on the 14th!

Route_2 12-09-2021 09:29 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmbfd15 (Post 18092675)
“That’s old Las Vegas” (referencing downtown) :lol :lol

If anyone hasn’t been in last 10 years, downtown Vegas has been totally revamped. Golden Nugget is maybe my favorite hotel to hang and do so reasonably priced gambling. Plus the canopy is an experience in itself and the walk from canopy to container park has a lot of badass little bars. Banger Brewing is a very underrated spot.
Was in Vegas a couple weeks ago. The new Circa hotel is awesome. Their sports book section is amazing.

https://d3hjf51r9j54j7.cloudfront.ne...cs-Circa-1.jpg

BotheLaneFan 12-09-2021 09:32 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Resort World is even cooler than Circa, and Circa is fucking cool.

Route_2 12-09-2021 10:07 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BotheLaneFan (Post 18092856)
Resort World is even cooler than Circa, and Circa is fucking cool.
Nice. I'll check that out next time. Didn't realize that place was finished yet.

drakan 12-09-2021 12:40 PM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 18092744)
The Rangers v Aves game was really interesting last night. I think these two teams are very similarly built. The first period was like watching two team mirror each other in style of play. It was noticeable that the Rangers were turning the puck over a lot early and often due to some fatigue from playing in Chicago the night before. All of that considered, this might be the happiest I have been in a 7-3 loss. They looked competitive even after the crazy back-to-back with travel.

Obviously the Aves are a very good team, and to be honest, I marked this game on the calendar for weeks as a probable loss due to schedule and talent on Colorado. That said, the Rangers were slightly flat, but could have won that game with either of their top to goalies in net, but definitely Shesty. No disrespect to Huska, but he is an AHL goalie at best and was making his NHL debut against a top team. He was a bit of a sieve and in the second period let in 5 goals on only 13 shots. That just doesn't happen 95% of the time when Shesty is in.

The Rangers special teams were great again, the team scored 3 goals in the game and showed lots of fight until the wheels came off for Huska in net. Sign me up for the game against the Aves on the 14th!
Rangers tired.

jcc522 12-09-2021 09:19 PM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Canes extinguish the flames


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BotheLaneFan 12-09-2021 09:38 PM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Route_2 (Post 18092890)
Nice. I'll check that out next time. Didn't realize that place was finished yet.
They have a street food food court. You can order from ~20 different restaurants and pick up your order from each one. All of them looked baller. I had a delicious brisket fried rice from the Texas station. The wife got a Peking duck burrito that changed her life.

aeroshady 12-10-2021 07:32 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Not totally surprising but here is the Forbes list for most valuable teams in the NHL.

1. New York Rangers - $2 billion

2. Toronto Maple Leafs - $1.8 billion

3. Montreal Canadiens - $1.6 billion

4. Chicago Blackhawks - $1.4 billion

5. Boston Bruins - $1.3 billion

6. Philadelphia Flyers - $1.2 billion

7. Edmonton Oilers - $1.1 billion

aeroshady 12-10-2021 08:16 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
An interesting article today about the Rangers and Flyers possibly making a trade sending Giroux to New York and prospects to Philly.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nhl...cid=entnewsntp

The Rangers are 17-5-3 with a .740 winning %. They have had a start that so far exceeds expectations and has the entire fanbase buzzing. We all just wanted to make the playoffs this year. Being in contention for a top team in the division/league far exceeds that.

For those reasons I am always very resistant to trades like this. I usually never want to give up pieces, especially young prospects and definitely not ones in the current lineup. The Rangers have been guilty my entire life of mortgaging the future for a single season and costing the team any chance of sustained 4-6 year runs in the playoffs. I felt that way about the Buch trade this off season.

That said; the Rangers are in serious need of a another player that can play center and win faceoffs. They are horrendous at winning them (31st). Adding someone like Giroux who can not only improve that stat line, but also be a leader and put up points might be totally worth moving some prospects that the Rangers have a ton of. He would give the team much needed depth for sure.

However, I don't think you make this move (or one like it) until close to the deadline. Statistically, the Rangers are likely to make the playoffs at this point. The issue is a lot can still change before that deadline point. Injuries and other teams getting better could change the picture later in the season. This is not a good trade if the Rangers have cooled off and are just hanging on to a final playoff spot in Spring. Instead, this move only makes sense if they are looking like a legit contender that could make a run. If they are still first or second in the division sitting on a ton of points, than yes, adding depth and talent like this makes perfect sense.

Roose13 12-10-2021 09:29 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roose13 (Post 18089231)
The Flyers make more money every season than some of the Original 6 teams.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 18093643)
Not totally surprising but here is the Forbes list for most valuable teams in the NHL.

1. New York Rangers - $2 billion

2. Toronto Maple Leafs - $1.8 billion

3. Montreal Canadiens - $1.6 billion

4. Chicago Blackhawks - $1.4 billion

5. Boston Bruins - $1.3 billion

6. Philadelphia Flyers - $1.2 billion

7. Edmonton Oilers - $1.1 billion
Well, it's more than one Original 6 team! I figured Ottawa for sure. Thought they would be close with Chicago.

aeroshady 12-10-2021 09:38 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roose13 (Post 18093759)
Well, it's more than one Original 6 team! I figured Ottawa for sure. Thought they would be close with Chicago.
Looks like it would just be Detroit. Sens are not original six. In random order:

1. NY Rangers
2. Boston Bruins
3. Chicago Blackhawks
4. Toronto Maple Leafs
5. Detroit Red Wings
6. Montreal Canadiens

Sens are a very old team, but only came back into the NHL in the early 1990's. They have a few Cup wins pre-NHL though.

Roose13 12-10-2021 11:33 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aeroshady (Post 18093761)
Looks like it would just be Detroit. Sens are not original six. In random order:

1. NY Rangers
2. Boston Bruins
3. Chicago Blackhawks
4. Toronto Maple Leafs
5. Detroit Red Wings
6. Montreal Canadiens

Sens are a very old team, but only came back into the NHL in the early 1990's. They have a few Cup wins pre-NHL though.
Woops, that's what I meant. I always think the Sens were Original 6 like a dope because of the colors being similar to Chicago.

TypicalBilly14 12-11-2021 09:53 PM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Bruins! Great win over Calgary!!!! :bounce :bounce :bounce :bounce

swordo84 12-12-2021 05:56 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
Oilers have burned through all their early season equity. They've gone 3-7 in their last 10 with a 5 game losing streak. Decidedly un-good.

Roose13 12-12-2021 08:49 AM
Re: The NHL Thread
 
The Flyers have started winning when a majority of its fanbase has gone to bed. Go figures.


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