Re: The NHL Thread
 

Just could not recall who said that but could not resist the crack because he is playing damn well for the Hawks.

Well played! :lol

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Ants is running really slowly today...having a hard time getting to the nhl thread

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Kings look like poo going into the playoffs.

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:lol congrats man!

We need a trophy to move around the league.

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Nice! Definitely deserves a banner. Back to back defending champ now yes?

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Go Canes!

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Solid win vs the Lightning. Team looked and Bishop not so good again vs us.

Also , I saw video of Patrick Roy calling out Duchene publicly over his over the top celebration of a goal when Avs were down 4-0. Not the biggest Roy fan but I had no problem with it. I rather liked it.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Wow, lot of clinching playoff slots yesterday - Rangers, Pathers, Sharks and Preds - plus I cannot see a scenario where the Wild or the Lightening do not get in, rest is going down to the wire.

Lets talk trophies now

Presidents cup is already won by the Caps.
I think with 8 points in the past 2 games Panarin sealed up the Calder
Vezina is tough. Holtby, Bishop and Elliot are the frontrunners I would say.
Kane runs away with the Art Ross
Lady Bing goes to Tofoli IMO, he probably gets the Selke too - though you could also make a Selke case for Toews, Bergeron or Hossa.
Karlsonn wins another Norris
Kane likely sneaks out a win in for the Hart
McDavid would be my vote for the Bill Masterson
Barring a fluke Tofoli gets the Plus minus award
Ovi is almost a lock for the Maurice Ricards
Jack Adams is tough, best guesses are John Cooper, Barry Trotz, Bruce Boudreau - possibly to Dave Hakstol or Joel Quenneville
Roger Crozier award probably goes to Elliot or Bishop barring a barring both of them taking a dump and getting smoked in the last few games in which case it would oddly go to Crawford
Ted Lindsay Award probably goes to Kane
Yzerman probably retains the GM award
Toews likely gets the Messier leadership award

The rest are going to be battles right up until the end and I won't even bother making predictions!

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, I have no issue with him calling out Duchene either. Roy gave me fits growing up following every Whalers game! :lol

Re: The NHL Thread
 

^ Nice assessment on the trophies. I might throw Mike Sullivan in consideration for Jack Adams because the Pens have been just ridiculous since he took over. But he wasn't there the entire season, so I'd still give weight to Trotz or Boudreau.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

the fact that Sullivan hasn't been there all season adds to his Jack Adams resume IMO

never understood why being there all year would help someone's case

Re: The NHL Thread
 

and the trophy assessment is a little blackhawks heavy :lol i know it's hard to be unbiased sometimes but damn

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Do you expect anything less from Jamie? :lol The thing is, though, Kane has the Art Ross pretty much tied up, and has a good shot at the Hart. Kane also has a good shot at the Ted Lindsay award given his performance.

Panera Bread has a good shot at the Calder, though I'd say it's not locked.

Quennville might be in the Jack Adams consideration because he's Quennville, but I don't think the Hawks as a team stood out enough this year to merit that.

Overall, he's not entirely out of line favoring the Hawks players in those categories.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Villanova!!!!

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Q shouldn't be in the convo for Jack Adams whatsoever

Toews and Hossa shouldn't be in the Selke mix IMO

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I agree with this, too. I think Selke likely goes to Bergeron. Though I'll put my homer hat on and say Crosby should be a Selke nominee this year.

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it's silly that Crosby never gets considered for the Selke because he's the best 2-way player in the league by a lot...but he never will because everyone associates him with offense because people are dumb

also, if Karlsson wins another Norris that will be bullshit...Letang has been the better player pretty much all year

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Driving me nuts too, it is every thread that I have opened for 2 days now! Rather annoying.

Not sure if it hurts or harms to be honest, the votes by the broadcasting association are impossible to predict.

I know but Kane is a large part of that and you really cannot deny that he is the frontrunner for the Art Ross and the Hart. Also, stats do not lie - Panarin should easily win the Calder. You really cannot deny that both Toews and Hossa are great two way guys who contribute a lot on D. Also, not sure there is a better captain and leader in the NHL then Toews right now. Q is not going to get coach of the year but I think he will get some votes. I threw in Crawford for the Save Percentage award because it is such a tight race (.005 separating Elliot and Crawford) so if Bishop has a bad night against the Rangers tonight and Elliot gets blown out on Thursday in Chicago or Saturday against the Caps it could strangely end up in Crawford's hands.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

never said anything about Kane, he's having a great year...same with Panera

but sorry, Toews and Hossa for the Selke...just no...would be terrible if either of them win that award

and don't care about save % award (:lol) because you can't vote on that

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Agreed on Crosby - they only seem to see his offense.

Equally the writers association will probably be dazzled by Karlsson's point total and award him another Norris. Though maybe they will do their jobs and actually look solely at defensive contributions - in which case there are a lot of guys in the mix, doubt it though.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Jamie, I've noticed this too. I'm on chrome and the bottom bar is always saying "waiting for piwik.antsmarching.org" as the page loads and does nothing.

A quick google search says "piwik" is a "Piwik is the leading open-source analytics platform that gives you more than just powerful analytics:" - that's from piwik.org; whatever that is.

I think this is something am.org has installed on its side because I don't have this problem with any other site i go to.

Perhaps you can pass this on to the higher ups.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Agreed on Kane and Panarin. When it come to these awards the voters are idiots IMO. In fairness to Toews he does have one Selke and gets back damn quick to help out a lot on defense.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

This seems to happen every year with the Norris, which essentially goes to the best offensive defenseman. I'll put my homer hat on one more time for Letang, because he's played stellar defense along with putting up a nice point total. But others should be in the mix, too.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

yes, we can all agree the voters are idiots

Toews is pretty good both ways but guys like Bergeron, Crosby and Datsyuk in his prime are next level

it's a crime that Crosby doesn't have one yet

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I will take a crack at mentioning it to Jake because the forum runs on a SQL platform anyhow so we could do all the analytic's we want ourselves if we wanted.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Letang has been just as offensively productive as Karlsson and is much better in his own zone

Letang is on another level than everyone right now. his plays speaks for itself

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Thanks. :thumbsup

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please. Q, Bruce, or Mike Sullivan won't win the Jack Adams.


That trophy belongs to Dave Hakstol.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

he deserves an honorable mention for sure but Bruce Boudreau and Mike Sullivan have done the best coaching jobs this year

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Yeah, they are always more concerned with offense than defense. Not to take anything away from Duncan Keith because he is truly a shutdown defense guy but I think in 2015 they focused more on his point total than his defense. The first time he won it in 2009 (in a very close race) they got it right because they balanced his amazing offense stats as well as his shut down D and having the second highest ice time in the league.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

:thumbsup :thumbsup

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this statement is why the Norris is basically meaningless nowadays

kind of sad in a lot of ways

i was always confused as to why Brooks Orpik was never in the running when he was in his prime. the guy would be SO good in his own zone that he would inspire chants of "defense" at the Igloo

not saying he should've won because guys like Lidstrom, Chara, & Keith were in their primes also, but to not even get a mention because he didn't score is just absurd

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I agree with you but the writers in their infinite wisdom will look more at the 15 more points Karlsson has than Letang while conveniently overlooking the fact that Karlsson has played ten more games than Letang.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

What the hell is the Roger Crozier award?

There's a plus minus award?

Vezina is not close, sorry

Can McDavid even win the Masterson this year?

What h2p said about Crosby and the Selke is exactly how I feel about Nick Backstrom (of course it is, I know)

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Doughty for Norris.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Roger Crozier award is for the goalie who has the best save percentage.

Agreed the plus minus award is pointless.

I think Holtby runs away with the Vezina.

I also think McDavid has a good shot at the Masterson, he certainly qualifies based on the NHL criteria:

Re: The NHL Thread
 

bingo

:lol you aren't going to try to convince us that Backstrom is as good as Crosby againm are you?

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I would have no issue with that but I think the writers will likely put him 2nd or 3rd on the vote due to his point total being well behind Karlsson.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I think Trotz definitely deserves the Adams award this year. Of course, if you look back over the years, I think I've said that for the last 5 years at least. I just love that guy.

But a big one that we're missing here is Gerard Gallant in Florida. The patient work he's done in Florida bringing along those young guys has been fantastic. He's easily second place to Trotz in my book. Boudreau would round out my top 3. A lot of teams have performed admirable turn-arounds, but none so dramatically as Anaheim's in my book.

As for the Norris, you guys know me and me aversion to giving it to offensive defensemen, but I just saw a stat on Erik Karlsson that blew me away: With his 64 (SIXTY FOUR) assists, not to mention 15 goals which is nothing to balk at for a defenseman, he factored into ONE THIRD of all the goals the Sens scored this year. That's not just Norris-worthy, that should have him in the Hart discussion as well for most valuable to the team. Not only that, but his defense improves every year. This hard-nosed defenseman really enjoys watching him now at all ends of the ice. He's really becoming Lidstrom-esque in his positioning and smarts.

Rounding out my Norris voting is Letang (I agree with you all that his defensive improvement this year has been dramatic) and Oliver Ekman-Larsson. I would sure love to see what OEL could do away from the Yotes, but they're going to keep their future captain locked up for a long time if they can.

Hart voting for me comes down to Kane, Karlsson, and Crosby.

Vezina is Holtby, Quick, and Luongo.

You all know my Calder thoughts. Even with them, Panarin wins.

Selke will most likely have the usual lineup of Bergeron, Datsyuk, and Toews. Nothing wrong with those three - they deserve it - but it's getting predictable. Crosby has always been a very defensively responsible player (remember the arguments we used to have in here about him vs Ovechkin? Some of the most heated we've ever had :lol). And I would love to see some bottom 6 PK-ers get some love for this award. Guys like Jack Skille, Zack Smith, etc.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

we'll see Karlsson vs. Letang tonight

if anyone is able to watch Sens vs. Pens, i suggest doing it

IMO, the eye test will tell you that Crosby is more deserving of the Selke than anyone and that Letang is the best defenseman in the world right now

god the Pens are fucking sexy right now

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, have a look at Karlsson. He's really improved and is a lot of fun to watch, regardless if you're trying to compare him to Letang.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

yea, not taking anything away from Karlsson whatsoever. love watching him play too

but the Norris has turned into the Art Ross for defensemen, which is such bullshit

i'm sure Karlsson is rounding out his game in his own zone, but Letang is unreal. just as good of a skater as Karlsson but with a better stick and more physicality.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I cannot stand the guy but they have to put Brent Burns in the Norris mix too.

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Could not agree more.

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You won't find anyone around that agrees with you more than me on this. If it were up to me, guys like Niklas Hjalmarsson and Karl Alzner would be winning the Norris every year.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Re: The NHL Thread
 

God I love you

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, two of the most under-rated guys in the NHL but both of them put up squat for points. The voters never consider how valuable their penalty killing, shot blocking, checking, passing and playing shut down defense is! Hell in Hjalmarsson's case you'd think he merit some more attention considering he was a key cog in 3 championships!

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Coulda sworn that was called the William Jennings award

Also I literally did not know they gave an award for +/-. Yikes

No, but I do think he deserves some Selke consideration, and he's never really had any

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I knew that would make you smile.

Guys - another d-man to watch is John Klingberg in Dallas. He's finishing up a superb sophomore campaign in which he didn't come anywhere close to sophomore slump. I almost included him in my Norris top 3, he's that solid. He'll be a perennial nominee for years to come, mark my words.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

i can get on board with that

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:lol I had to look it up myself. Jennings is for the goalie who's team has given up the least goals in the league. Crozier is for individual save percentage.

Completely agree that no one gives a damn about +/-!

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, Jennings is a tandem award. So the both the backup and starting goalies for the team share the award.

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Is Crozier new? How have I never heard of this before?

Also is the +/- award really just called the Plus Minus Award? I don't ever remember an award being given for that

Re: The NHL Thread
 

A tandem award in which the defense that actually shuts down the opposition gets no credit at all. ;)

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Crozier award has been around since the 2000 season.

Yup, that is exactly what it is called - that one has been around since 1983.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Couts needs some Selke love

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Sarah Bangs award: Who is the hairiest?

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I thought it would have been hockey wife Sarah would most want to bang

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Turned into the Art Ross?. It's mostly been that way for most our lives. Rod Langway was a very long time ago at this point.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Ok the trophy thing was bothering me so I researched it. Apparently the Crozier really is a real award (which I swore it wasn't) however it was only awarded 7 times and hasn't been awarded in almost a decade.

The Plus Minus Award also no longer exists, hasn't since Datsyuk won it in 2008. But they awarded it for 25 years and I've never heard of it until today. I genuinely can't believe that I wasn't even aware of it.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

To be clear, just because a defenseman has offensive skills doesn't take him out of Norris contention in my eyes (I kinda feel that's the way this convo is going). Recent-ish winners like Keith, Chara, Lidstrom, Niedermayer, Pronger, etc. all were great offensively and still all deserved their Norris wins.

However, their primary talent and focus was in their own zone, where each of them excelled.

Karlsson's first win bugged me because I felt it was offensively-oriented, but with the growth he's undergone in his defensive game, I think he's more than deserving now.

The one that really bugged me was PK Subban. You all know the game well enough to know why him winning an award for best defenseman would bug me.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

exactly this :thumbsup

Re: The NHL Thread
 

before chris pronger in 2000, and without peeking, who was the last defenseman to win the Hart Trophy?

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i would assume Bobby Orr unless another D-man won it after him that i don't know

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First guess would be Chelios

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Bobby Orr in 1972.

That's freaking crazy.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, I think you may just have to go back that far. Going to cheat and peek now.

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i thought so

Chelios was a good guess

Lidstrom would've been my next guess but i knew in the back of my head he never won the Hart

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Bobby Orr won the Norris 8 times in a row. That's insane.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, damn - that is crazy. Year before that he had a +124 rating that I doubt will ever be matched.

Yeah, that was a tough question. I sort of flipped a coin in my head and picked Chelios over Al MacInnis because when I thought of defensemen who were genuine game changers those two were the first that popped into my head.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Bobby Orr pretty good

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Meh, he was all right. ;)

I still contend that no one - with MAYBE the exception of Gretzky - changed the game of hockey more than Bobby Orr did. I've got a DVD of his that's one of my favorites... it's amazing to see how he forced teams and players to completely change the way they played to even come close to his level. It just sucks that I wasn't around to see him play game in and out.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

And we all know who broke that streak right in his best offensive season in which his team won the Presidents Trophy but had a disappointing playoffs as they clearly weren't "ready".

Maybe he could have won the Hart that year but his teammate did.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Taking nothing at all away from Orr but damn were those 1970's Bruin's teams stacked! Orr, Dryden, Sanderson, Esposito, Bucyk, Stanfield, Hodge, etc, etc - with no damn cap like today. Wish I could have seen them play.

Sidenote: NBC did a great documentary on Derek Sanderson and his triumphs and troubles with booze and drugs. It is called "Center of Attention, The Unreal Life of Derek Sanderson"

Link here if anyone is interested: https://vimeo.com/130112921

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, if I'm not mistaken that guy went on to win another Norris or two... ;)

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Bruins wished they had Dryden. Cheevers was in nets for many of those teams.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Gordie Howe was pretty good too! Small bias showing here since he played on the Whalers for a season. Man that 1979-1980 all star game must have been amazing to watch, 19 year old Gretzky on the ice along with Howe, the Esposito brothers, Ratelle, Bossy, Propp, Trottier, Lafleur, Dionne, Sittler and others. Smart move by Scotty Bowman to get all those greats on the ice together!

Weird on my last post, I just cut and pasted that link and the photo showed up! :lol

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Definitely 2 so it was 3 in 4 years and I mis-remembered in my last post. The last of potvins Norris years was his best season when Trotts won the Hart, the isles won the Presidents Trophy. Bossy had 69 goals that season in his second season but the dirty stupid Leafs knocked us out of the playoffs. The dynasty may not have happened without that series. It toughened them up.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

My mistake, I misread an article and posted before I double checked. One curious thing about his career that baffles me is how he won the Conn Smyth (1971) before he won the Calder in 1972.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

That's probably the most well known thing about Ken Dryden honestly

That and how he stood between whistles

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He only played a handful of games late in the season and was good enough that the Habs gave him the reigns and rode him to that cup and a few more.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah, I love the grit of Gordie.

Here's the thing, and I regret that this will sound like a knock on Howe, because it's not meant to be: Gordie played exceptionally well within the skill boundaries of the game at that point in hockey. And he did it for a long damn time. He deserves all the accolades he's been given and more.

But Bobby Orr... Dude, Bobby Orr REDEFINED the skill boundaries of the game. All of a sudden, defensemen weren't just counted on to prevent opportunities or once in a while participate in them, they were able to CREATE them. And to do it with speed, precision, and intelligence equal to any forward. Orr could outskate anyone, could outshoot anyone, could outhink anyone, and the dude still blocked shot and hit with the best of 'em...

And everyone - those on his team and on opposing teams - had to evolve along with him in order to keep up. Defenses had to adjust to having the potential of four attackers instead of three. Backchecking became a primary skill of focus for forwards principally because of Bobby Orr. Box defense on the penalty kill became common because of the threat of a PP QB like Orr. Hell, the position of PP QB belonging to a defenseman essentially started with Orr. There's so much of today's game that we don't even think about that was influenced - whether heavily or slightly - by Bobby Orr.

Great players have played the game, but Orr changed it.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah. He won 3 total, right? Potvin is a legend in New York, but woefully underappreciated out of it.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Great post. This is exactly why Bobby Orr was probably the most important hockey player of all time. Like you said, he completely changed how the game was played. He was very much ahead of his time.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yeah. I hate to jinx it by saying dynasty, but...

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It's ok. I held true to form, dominated the regular season, finished in first place, got smoked in my round one matchup

Sound familiar?!?!?!?!

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I think he was. I mean, the next closest would be Wayne, who certainly did his own changing of the game. But if I really dissected the game and how it was played down to its core, I would give the edge to Bobby.

Again, not to diminish #99. The big thing that Wayne did is revolutionize the marketing and popularity of hockey. He was on the right stage at the right time, with the right set of completely unmatched dazzling skills, to inspire thousands of kids to play hockey that may have never picked up the sport otherwise. I mean, the Gretzky trade is pretty much responsible for hockey in expansion markets and all these American kids getting drafted in high spots these days.

But of course, he wasn't just a figurehead. He was, IMO, the best player of all time. I mean, just look at the record books. But in terms of CHANGING the game, I would give it to Bobby.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Legendary to even the Rag$ fans as they still can't forget him and still do their stupid Potvin chant to this day.

He won 3 in 4 years, scoring 30 goals or more in each but none during the Cups years. Islanders mostly won no hardware during the Cup years. It was a team effort. Bossy was the Lady Byng a few times and Smith won the Vezina once but that about it during the Cup years.....besides the Conn Smythe, of course :)

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Matty, this made me think of you

Sorry for the mobile link

http://m.thn.com/blog/hit-of-the-yea...ect-hip-check/

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Yep. Wayne did more to grow the game itself. Him going to LA is the reason there are 3 teams in California, in Arizona, Texas, Florida. Marrying Janet Jones helped. :D

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Agreed, completely. That's why I chose to use the word "important", and was speaking in terms of how the game is played. One could (rightfully) argue that no player was as important as Wayne when it comes to growth of the game and the NHL into what we know it as today.

Also, there's no question 99 is the "best" player ever

But in terms of how the game is executed on the ice, Bobby Orr's influence outweighs Wayne's I think.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

This is actually a really cool stat. Something I'd be proud of if I played for the Isles then :thumbsup
Oh man, THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. :lol

It's a clean hit, right in Corrado's gut, that flips him over in a way that his head is not going to hit the ice and completely breaks up the play, leading almost immediately to a breakout the other way.

This is precisely why good, clean, hard hitting is still a valuable part of hockey. Kampfer showed how it can still be executed cleanly and effectivelty. I'm gonna add this to my growing list of hits I show kids I coach.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I like seeing this sort of attitude from the league's stars: http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2016/04/05/...rm%5Bhockey%5D

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I knew you would love it

That was my first thought honestly :lol "Matty must see this"

:thumbsup nice to see him own up a little bit and recognize that, while 30 goals is very much something to be proud of, that celebration at that time was out if place

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Islanders have no chance tonight with our 4th goalie making his NHL debut tonight. He is not ready for prime time.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

Rangers are out in the first round no matter who they play. There is Zero fight left in them. May be time to blow it up.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

They are doing a piece on the islanders goalie during intermission. His first nhl action was in relief during the Penguins blowout. He said in the interview that crosby skated by him and asked if this was his nhl game. When the kid said yes, crosby told him "congrats". Obviously, I hate Crosby but I will give him props for a classy move there.

Re: The NHL Thread
 

They won't do that nor should they until Henrik starts sucking. So hopefully next season:D

Re: The NHL Thread
 

I agree with that assessment, Orr did more to fundamentally change the game but sort of overshadowed Gretzky because he was just plain light years ahead of any of his peers.

No idea the Ranger fans would be chanting him, he never even played for them. Yeah, he is vastly under-rated, a point per game player who helped win the Islanders 4 Cups somehow skips under the radar. Amazing.

Agreed, that trade did so much for the NHL in the US. Before he got there the NHL was an afterthought behind baseball, football and basketball and then the great one comes to LA and all of a sudden millions of Americans start to give a shit about hockey!