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~Crashintome89~ 07-13-2011 08:10 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
I cannot believe how much cap space the Islanders have right now. Why won't they try and offer sheet Stamkos? That would be the real deal for them.

dduncan6er 07-13-2011 08:13 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 12770389)
I cannot believe how much cap space the Islanders have right now. Why won't they try and offer sheet Stamkos? That would be the real deal for them.
Stamkos and Tavares together for the next 10 years would be absolutely ridiculous.

~Crashintome89~ 07-13-2011 08:20 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
I mean I know/understand the stigma a GM goes through by offer sheet route, but you have to think that the Islanders have to do something for their fans.

fonzz41 07-13-2011 08:37 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
C'mon Matt, we all know Stamkos will be a Flyer at the end of the day... :rolleyes

MacGuyver 07-13-2011 11:50 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
COLLUSION.

Doug Maclean was on the Fan last night, he the ex-GM (and rightfully so after his drafting record, :lol) made a good point. All of these gms on july 1 throwing out ridiculous money for these mediocre FA's, why didn't one take the next step and just offer stammer the money, 12 mill over ten years. the four picks are a joke for compensation. He DID say that back in his day, he never made them because he assumed the other GM would match. But still, forcing stevie Y to match that contract would just screw that team. I've been on this rant from day 1, the 3rd to 4th best player in the league, an RFA, and not one offer sheet. It's unthinkable.

can't wait till Donald Fehr bites this collusion square in the ass.

TMoore4075 07-13-2011 12:01 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12771225)
COLLUSION.

Doug Maclean was on the Fan last night, he the ex-GM (and rightfully so after his drafting record, :lol) made a good point. All of these gms on july 1 throwing out ridiculous money for these mediocre FA's, why didn't one take the next step and just offer stammer the money, 12 mill over ten years. the four picks are a joke for compensation. He DID say that back in his day, he never made them because he assumed the other GM would match. But still, forcing stevie Y to match that contract would just screw that team. I've been on this rant from day 1, the 3rd to 4th best player in the league, an RFA, and not one offer sheet. It's unthinkable.

can't wait till Donald Fehr bites this collusion square in the ass.
"Hi I'm Doug Maclean. I used to be the GM of the Columbus Blue Jackets. I ran that team into the ground. I would totally sign Stamkos to a big contract worth the league max."

Other GM's watching say: "Doug Maclean would do it? Don't do it!!!!!"

Like taking GM advice from Mike Milbury.

~Crashintome89~ 07-13-2011 01:16 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12771225)
COLLUSION.

Doug Maclean was on the Fan last night, he the ex-GM (and rightfully so after his drafting record, :lol) made a good point. All of these gms on july 1 throwing out ridiculous money for these mediocre FA's, why didn't one take the next step and just offer stammer the money, 12 mill over ten years. the four picks are a joke for compensation. He DID say that back in his day, he never made them because he assumed the other GM would match. But still, forcing stevie Y to match that contract would just screw that team. I've been on this rant from day 1, the 3rd to 4th best player in the league, an RFA, and not one offer sheet. It's unthinkable.

can't wait till Donald Fehr bites this collusion square in the ass.
There are certain teams that can only offer Stamkos a sheet though. Some teams are willing to take those four picks though instead of just one player with a high salary. We had this discussion before...

MacGuyver 07-13-2011 01:30 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
nah and I still stand by what I think. But everytime I hear someone on the radio discuss it, and no one gives any good reasons why GMs shouldn't be doing it (because I can't think of one), it just makes me wonder. Blair, McCown, Cox, MacLean now.

Stamkos would have to sign this offer sheet, obviously, correct? I wonder if he had his agent tell every team - don't bother, my client is staying in TB and he isn't going to sign anything you throw at him. That makes the most sense to me.

~Crashintome89~ 07-13-2011 01:33 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12771602)
nah and I still stand by what I think. But everytime I hear someone on the radio discuss it, and no one gives any good reasons why GMs shouldn't be doing it (because I can't think of one), it just makes me wonder. Blair, McCown, Cox, MacLean now.

Stamkos would have to sign this offer sheet, obviously, correct? I wonder if he had his agent tell every team - don't bother, my client is staying in TB and he isn't going to sign anything you throw at him. That makes the most sense to me.
If thats the case, then why isn't he signed already? Unless he's a complete douche, and wants to suck every penny out of TB that he can.

TMoore4075 07-14-2011 06:09 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12771602)
nah and I still stand by what I think. But everytime I hear someone on the radio discuss it, and no one gives any good reasons why GMs shouldn't be doing it (because I can't think of one), it just makes me wonder. Blair, McCown, Cox, MacLean now.

Stamkos would have to sign this offer sheet, obviously, correct? I wonder if he had his agent tell every team - don't bother, my client is staying in TB and he isn't going to sign anything you throw at him. That makes the most sense to me.
Well Cox is an asshole and Maclean is a crap GM so throw those two out. lol

I think everyone's arguments in here against have been good ones. It's not as black and white as just offer him 12mil. Brian Burke isn't a guy who's going to give that much money (11-12mil) to anyone especially a 21 year old I don't care how good he is. He wants a team. I'm sure Burke would be happy to give him 7-9mil but of course that would get matched. I think some GM's don't want to give up 4 picks. Whether you are a top team or a bottom rebuilding team, in the cap world 4 firsts are huge. You need the depth in your organization. In some cases the top teams need them more because when you are drafting 24-30 it's harder to find the game changers. Some teams don't have the cap space and would have to clear space to get it done and probably fear the lack of depth it would cause. Would also hurt if you had a few injuries because you wouldn't have a lot of wiggle room. Then other teams probably can't afford it financially. I also really think the CBA and not knowing what next year will bring has something to do with it. The cap goes down and you might have to buy him out since you can only have one player at 20% of the cap and 12mil would be over that. If you don't have to buy him out you have a guy taking up a sizeable chunk of your cap. Yeah he's a great player but depth is good too.

i know you think a team should just do it because he's a top 5 player in the league but I think those are all pretty good reasons why some GM's aren't doing it.

fonzz41 07-14-2011 07:28 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 12773514)
Well Cox is an asshole and Maclean is a crap GM so throw those two out. lol

I think everyone's arguments in here against have been good ones. It's not as black and white as just offer him 12mil. Brian Burke isn't a guy who's going to give that much money (11-12mil) to anyone especially a 21 year old I don't care how good he is. He wants a team. I'm sure Burke would be happy to give him 7-9mil but of course that would get matched. I think some GM's don't want to give up 4 picks. Whether you are a top team or a bottom rebuilding team, in the cap world 4 firsts are huge. You need the depth in your organization. In some cases the top teams need them more because when you are drafting 24-30 it's harder to find the game changers. Some teams don't have the cap space and would have to clear space to get it done and probably fear the lack of depth it would cause. Would also hurt if you had a few injuries because you wouldn't have a lot of wiggle room. Then other teams probably can't afford it financially. I also really think the CBA and not knowing what next year will bring has something to do with it. The cap goes down and you might have to buy him out since you can only have one player at 20% of the cap and 12mil would be over that. If you don't have to buy him out you have a guy taking up a sizeable chunk of your cap. Yeah he's a great player but depth is good too.

i know you think a team should just do it because he's a top 5 player in the league but I think those are all pretty good reasons why some GM's aren't doing it.
<clap clap>

I was just about to finally throw my two cents into this discussion. No need now.

Do our Philly friends have an update on how Stamkos's house hunting is going over there? MDrums?

kev87lads 07-14-2011 07:36 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
I can't speak for MDrums but Stamkos was last seen in Chester at the Philadelphia Union game.... He was apparently house hunting in Essington.

~Crashintome89~ 07-14-2011 08:13 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Stamkos was heard on Fan 590 saying it was always his dream to play with the mullet.

dduncan6er 07-14-2011 05:11 PM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Speaking of mullets the bruins signed mcquaid to a 3 year $4.7 mil extension. Very happy about this deal. One of my favorite bruins and the deal is a bargain compared to what some free agents got this year.

esa008 07-15-2011 05:00 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev87lads (Post 12773655)
I can't speak for MDrums but Stamkos was last seen in Chester at the Philadelphia Union game.... He was apparently house hunting in Essington.
Do you have a source or any evidence on this statement?

And why would a player who will sign an 8 figure contract house hunt in Essington? I don't think moving directly underneath a flightpath would be pleasant.

~Crashintome89~ 07-15-2011 05:25 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by esa008 (Post 12776257)
Do you have a source or any evidence on this statement?

And why would a player who will sign an 8 figure contract house hunt in Essington? I don't think moving directly underneath a flightpath would be pleasant.
Because Essington is right near the stadium, and Stamkos loves to practice on the home rink--not some dingy practice facility in Vorhees.

TMoore4075 07-15-2011 05:53 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dduncan6er (Post 12775369)
Speaking of mullets the bruins signed mcquaid to a 3 year $4.7 mil extension. Very happy about this deal. One of my favorite bruins and the deal is a bargain compared to what some free agents got this year.
Good for the Bruins getting that done now.

kev87lads 07-15-2011 05:56 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 12776278)
Because Essington is right near the stadium, and Stamkos loves to practice on the home rink--not some dingy practice facility in Vorhees.
This is correct. Plus he would be right near the airport cell phone waiting lot, which I hear is a great place for a quick hook up. (If you're into that...) And Stamkos seems like a guy who would be SO into that. Delayed flights ftw...

dduncan6er 07-15-2011 05:59 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 12776322)
Good for the Bruins getting that done now.
He seems to have a bit of upside too. I can't see him really regressing at this point so it's definitely a bargain imo. Now we just have to worry about signing Marchand.

MacGuyver 07-15-2011 06:02 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Come on you dont' like Cox?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 12773514)
Well Cox is an asshole and Maclean is a crap GM so throw those two out. lol
Quote:
I think everyone's arguments in here against have been good ones. It's not as black and white as just offer him 12mil. Brian Burke isn't a guy who's going to give that much money (11-12mil) to anyone especially a 21 year old I don't care how good he is. He wants a team. I'm sure Burke would be happy to give him 7-9mil but of course that would get matched.
Well Burke's personal agendas aside (which I agree with you, everything from no offer sheets, to no long term contracts, while I agree ethical, puts the team at a disadvantage right away), why couldn't you offer 12 mill over say 3 years. lots of money, yes. short term, after that you can renegotiate it when he's 24. Would Stevie Y match that? Maybe. But not his team is screwed. Again, this is hardball.

Quote:
I think some GM's don't want to give up 4 picks. Whether you are a top team or a bottom rebuilding team, in the cap world 4 firsts are huge. You need the depth in your organization. In some cases the top teams need them more because when you are drafting 24-30 it's harder to find the game changers. Some teams don't have the cap space and would have to clear space to get it done and probably fear the lack of depth it would cause.
The four picks are a wash, sorry. Anyone who thinks differently just doesn't know hockey. And again, it's easier to get your superstar and build depth around him then to build your team and then get your star player via FA or whatever. Depth is important, but I reiterate, you can still sign FA assets and trade them for different kinds of assets, i.e. picks. I look at the leaf case again, where you sign Beauchmin as a FA, and trade him for the 17th pick a few years ago. Mid first round picks are easier to acquire than 1st overall superstar players - which Stamkos has proven he is.

Quote:
Would also hurt if you had a few injuries because you wouldn't have a lot of wiggle room. Then other teams probably can't afford it financially. I also really think the CBA and not knowing what next year will bring has something to do with it. The cap goes down and you might have to buy him out since you can only have one player at 20% of the cap and 12mil would be over that. If you don't have to buy him out you have a guy taking up a sizeable chunk of your cap. Yeah he's a great player but depth is good too.
The only reason I'm making this argument is because Stammer has proven just how good he is, and how young he is. This isn't Penner, this isn't Gratton, this isn't Federov when Carolina offered him $$$, Stammer has the chance to be the 2-3 best player in the entire league and he is 21. Why not roll the dice on him? It is worth the risk, you can't plan for injuries, and there is no way you would have to buy him out with the new CBA.

In regard to Burke, I know what he is doing, he is taking the long term team approach which I also respect, because I've seen it work in vancouver. I just hope they let him play it out over ten years and don't can him midway. The depth he is building is great, it is just slow. Very glad Richards didn't come here... that contract is awful.

It's a lot of the cap hit, but when Ovie, Gino, and Sid signed their contracts, although the cap hit is only 8 mill, when they signed those deals the cap was lower so as a percentage it was still pretty high.

i know you think a team should just do it because he's a top 5 player in the league but I think those are all pretty good reasons why some GM's aren't doing it.

~Crashintome89~ 07-15-2011 07:09 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12776335)
The four picks are a wash, sorry. Anyone who thinks differently just doesn't know hockey. And again, it's easier to get your superstar and build depth around him then to build your team and then get your star player via FA or whatever.
Wow, then Ray Shero and Dale Tallon have to be the biggest idiots in the world.

Also, pretty sure you made our argument for us. Teams who draft really well in the post-lockout, end up doing really well. Look at Pittsburgh, the Red Wings, hell, even the Lightning with Stamkos and Hedman. They have one or two players that are homegrown stars, and then they just fill in the blanks with depth through trades or free agency. This is a lot easier than say the New York approach by bringing in flesh blood via trade or free agency. The draft is important now. In the new NHL teams have to use the draft wisely. No longer are you just able to spend so much in free agency. It doesn't happen like that anymore.

MacGuyver 07-15-2011 07:23 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Not sure what you're getting at.

The core of Detroit is three superstars filled in with depth players, who has emerged as a young talent for them? I will concede those three superstars were taken quite late in the draft, but times were much different back then. I'm of the personal belief that Detroit just got really, really lucky with Dats and Zetts. Gotta be lucky to be good though.

Pitts - core is Fleury, Staal, Gino, and Sid. Combined draft positions of those four players are: 6 I believe.
Lightning - core is Vinny, St Louis, Stammer, and Hedman (will be in the future). Aside from St louis, all high picks.
Chicage - core is.... do you want me to go on? Keith was a later pick, but Toews, Kane, both high picks.
Washington - core is Ovie, Backstrom, Semin, all high picks.

Do high picks always work out? absolutely not.

The high end draft picks are important, but picks 10-30? four of those for a number 1 superstar? Easily, easily. If you're Stevie y, you would make that trade, my four round first rounders for your stammer??

TMoore4075 07-15-2011 07:31 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
4 picks are a wash? Hawks, Pens and Oilers would have to disagree. If there was a Stamkos type player on the market in 2002 and the Pens went and signed whoever that would have been and lost 4 first rounders there would be no Fleury (2003), no Malkin (2004), no Crosby (2005), and no Staal (2006). I think I'd take them over just Stamkos.

Hawks do the same thing in 03 they have no Barker, who had a great 09 and got them Leddy now, no Toews and no Kane. Yes I skipped Skille.

Oilers do the same in 07,no Eberle, no Pääjärvi-Svensson, no Hall and no Nugent-Hopkins.

I'm sure you'll say if they get a guy like Stamkos they don't finish that low to get those guys. Maybe but having those guys now sets you up for the future better than just one guy.

dduncan6er 07-15-2011 07:33 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Why are you assuming the Leafs will be picking outside of the top 10 for the next 4 years?

MacGuyver 07-15-2011 07:50 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 12776488)
4 picks are a wash? Hawks, Pens and Oilers would have to disagree. If there was a Stamkos type player on the market in 2002 and the Pens went and signed whoever that would have been and lost 4 first rounders there would be no Fleury (2003), no Malkin (2004), no Crosby (2005), and no Staal (2006). I think I'd take them over just Stamkos.

Hawks do the same thing in 03 they have no Barker, who had a great 09 and got them Leddy now, no Toews and no Kane. Yes I skipped Skille.

Oilers do the same in 07,no Eberle, no Pääjärvi-Svensson, no Hall and no Nugent-Hopkins.

I'm sure you'll say if they get a guy like Stamkos they don't finish that low to get those guys. Maybe but having those guys now sets you up for the future better than just one guy.
of COURSE I would say that. Leafs finished with the ninth pick, adding Stamkos, one would rationally think that this would push them into the 10-30 range. Right??

I agree, four top 10 picks are not worth Stamkos. You have to assume that Stamkos would improve your team where you're not drafting like that. Obviously this can backfire, i.e. Kessel, but come on, Kessel is no Stamkos.

Again, if you think the compensation is more than fair, if you're Stevie Y - you make that trade? Toronto's next four first rounders for Stamkos straight up? Not a chance.

dduncan6er 07-15-2011 07:55 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12776542)
of COURSE I would say that. Leafs finished with the ninth pick, adding Stamkos, one would rationally think that this would push them into the 10-30 range. Right??

I agree, four top 10 picks are not worth Stamkos. You have to assume that Stamkos would improve your team where you're not drafting like that. Obviously this can backfire, i.e. Kessel, but come on, Kessel is no Stamkos.

Again, if you think the compensation is more than fair, if you're Stevie Y - you make that trade? Toronto's next four first rounders for Stamkos straight up? Not a chance.
If you're Stevie Y you can't make that trade regardless of what you think the value would be. Letting Stamkos walk would be the end of that franchise in Tampa. Fans would stop coming to games and the team would be moved because there's no way a Stamkos-less Lightning team would last in that shitty market. So even if he thought it was the right move hockey-wise he couldn't do it because it's such a shitty move business-wise.

MacGuyver 07-15-2011 08:06 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
You know what that argument wreaks of? Conflict of interest, and collusion. It's not Burke's fault that TB is a shitty market.

Guaranteed though that is one of the reasons no one is bidding on Stamkos. And it's one of the reasons the NHL is an absolute joke.

dduncan6er 07-15-2011 08:07 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12776593)
You know what that argument wreaks of? Conflict of interest, and collusion. It's not Burke's fault that TB is a shitty market.

Guaranteed though that is one of the reasons no one is bidding on Stamkos. And it's one of the reasons the NHL is an absolute joke.
You seem to have gotten to the bottom of it. The whole league is out to get the Leafs!!!!!!

MacGuyver 07-15-2011 08:15 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
It may be coming from a leafs fan, but it's true. There are so many shitty markets that GB has created, and continued with, and it affects the actual game. Did florida want to sign 10 shitty players? nope, but they were forced to. which is going to force them to lose like 30 million dollars. a league owning a team for how long? how is THAT not a conflict of interest. The CBA was great, for like a year, and now they are back at square 1. curious to see if they lose another year to a lockout.

From a neutral perspective, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the NHL is run by a chimp :lol

dduncan6er 07-15-2011 08:17 AM
Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGuyver (Post 12776627)
It may be coming from a leafs fan, but it's true. There are so many shitty markets that GB has created, and continued with, and it affects the actual game. Did florida want to sign 10 shitty players? nope, but they were forced to. which is going to force them to lose like 30 million dollars. a league owning a team for how long? how is THAT not a conflict of interest. The CBA was great, for like a year, and now they are back at square 1. curious to see if they lose another year to a lockout.

From a neutral perspective, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the NHL is run by a chimp :lol
Everyone knows that. You're incesant bitching about the Leafs not being able to get Stamkos is just getting very old at this point.


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