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TMoore4075 03-07-2012 11:45 AM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
The Bob has spoken

https://twitter.com/#!/TSNBobMcKenzi...17384825593856

kev87lads 03-07-2012 11:49 AM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
^ Good call.

TMoore4075 03-07-2012 11:52 AM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
And on Turco, at least one team won't dick them over.

https://twitter.com/#!/erlendssontri...18477978652672

lockman21 03-07-2012 11:57 AM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 13409964)

I agree 100%. It was a clean hit. Not much to argue about.

wampa3 03-07-2012 12:23 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
So now that the NHL has deemed the hit A-OK, they have it being headlined as one of the "Hits of the Year" on the front page of the site. Not sure how to feel about this given how fucked up Voracek looked afterwards. You'd think the NHL wouldn't want to celebrate it as much as they are. I don't really care that much about it either way, but it's interesting move on their part.

TMoore4075 03-07-2012 12:27 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wampa3 (Post 13410145)
So now that the NHL has deemed the hit A-OK, they have it being headlined as one of the "Hits of the Year" on the front page of the site. Not sure how to feel about this given how fucked up Voracek looked afterwards. You'd think the NHL wouldn't want to celebrate it as much as they are. I don't really care that much about it either way, but it's interesting move on their part.

Yeah while the hit was great in terms of viewing I guess, the aftermath was not pretty and shouldn't be celebrated.

efraser77 03-07-2012 12:30 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 13410162)
Yeah while the hit was great in terms of viewing I guess, the aftermath was not pretty and shouldn't be celebrated.

Both the NHL and NFL have this problem. They glorify huge hits and the hard-hitting nature of their games, while simultaneously saying they need to cut down on all the serious injuries that result from the hitting.

Two years ago, the NFL was fining James Harrison (I think it was him) for a hit while simultaneously selling photos of said hit on NFL.com.

lockman21 03-07-2012 12:34 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by efraser77 (Post 13410165)
Both the NHL and NFL have this problem. They glorify huge hits and the hard-hitting nature of their games, while simultaneously saying they need to cut down on all the serious injuries that result from the hitting.

Two years ago, the NFL was fining James Harrison (I think it was him) for a hit while simultaneously selling photos of said hit on NFL.com.

It's such a fine line to walk, I don't know if either league can find where exactly that line is. The games are rough, and dangerous. Big hits happen, like Kronwall's hit. Guys are going to get hurt. If it was a clean hit, and Voracek got hurt on it, well...tough. That's hockey.

wampa3 03-07-2012 01:02 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Unveiling Mario's statue right now.

http://video.penguins.nhl.com/videoc...=616&id=162905

dduncan6er 03-07-2012 01:14 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Turco cleared waivers!

lockman21 03-07-2012 01:29 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dduncan6er (Post 13410359)
Turco cleared waivers!

:lol YES!!!!

TMoore4075 03-07-2012 01:59 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Lupul out for 3-4 weeks. I think that about ends the Leafs season.

fonzz41 03-07-2012 02:06 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
My thoughts on the Kronwall hit (I know, I'm woefully behind the times... work will do that sometimes).

Link I'm basing my thoughts on: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8T9sKZiGzk

I first watched only Voracek, then watched only Kronwall.

First off, Voracek:
* As can be seen at :06 of the video, his head is woefully down. This is a tough position for him to be in... he was going for the quick breakout of the zone, his feet got a little bit ahead of him, and the puck obviously wasn't cooperating (:05). I've been in this situation, and I know what's gone through my head: "I'm going to get creamed!"
* He could've put himself in a less dangerous position by corralling the puck (both hands) and then going for the breakout. It would appear he had the time and space to do so. I would've considered gaining control of the puck, and using the space he had to go for a more conventional breakout (hitting a streaking forward going up the middle with a pass).
* Or, even better, he could've brought his head up before he began accelerating (:06)... a common rule of hockey ("Keep your f***** head up!!! is a common thing heard from a coach). Tough to judge though, when you're not in the heat of the game. As you can see, this took a grand total of around 3 seconds.

Kronwall:
* As can be seen at :05, Kronwall is at his left point position on the blueline, he's not coming in from further away which could've led to a charging penalty. At the time he sets his sights on Voracek, he's in a holding pattern, circling with both skates pointed outwards - meaning he's not moving very quickly, but enough to get momentum if he needed to. He takes approximately two quick strides before delivering the hit, again ruling out charging.
* Kronwall did not change direction or angle before delivering the hit, meaning that had Voracek looked up, he easily would've seen Kronwall right in front of him.
* Kronwall delivers a hard body check. The head became the principal point of contact because of Voracek's body position. In that sense, it was, by definition, a headshot.

Despite this being a headshot, I wouldn't deem it suspendable. Kronwall was in a clean, clear, position to make a body check. He delivered it in a clean manner... you see checks thrown like this all the time. He put his shoulder into the player, elbows down, without leaving his feet. That's a textbook body check.

Voracek not paying attention is what really troubles me about all of this. Even if his head had been up, it still would've been the principal contact point if a hit had occurred. However, if his head had been up, I do not believe there would have even been a hit. Kronwall was in his line of sight and far enough away that he could have avoided the hit completely.

Kronwall could have gone lower on the hit, yes, but I believe he followed his instincts in not doing so. I would've done the same thing, and at the risk of me sounding like a dirty hockey player, I'll tell you why. By standing his ground, basically making himself a pylon, Kronwall ensured he would take Voracek out of the play without taking himself out of it. NOTHING is worse for a defenseman than effing up at the blueline and allowing a team an odd-man rush. Nothing. With that, we condition ourselves to make safe plays and minimize risk. Had Kronwall lowered himself, perhaps to throw a hip check, he increases the chance of him falling over, getting tangled up with Voracek, or otherwise getting taken out of the play. If he had, would it have led to an odd-man rush? Probably not, but the instinct and conditioning is still there. Just watch, and you'll rarely see a defenseman throw a hip check at the opposing team's blueline.

My two cents.

Oh, and regarding him not fighting, he's completely in the right for not doing so. Having to fight for clean hits is absolutely stupid I think. Fighting hurts - it's not fun - and for players to have be looking over their shoulder every time they throw a clean body check, waiting to get their face pummelled, is stupid. I understand that to Flyers this may have looked dirty, and for that I don't really fault them challenging him, but he was under no responsibility, by the Code or otherwise, to fight.

kev87lads 03-07-2012 04:05 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
^ I read that whole post in Brendan Shanahan's tone and demeanor. :lol Good stuff Matt.

dduncan6er 03-07-2012 04:10 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
The post would have been more effective with power point slides.

fonzz41 03-07-2012 04:14 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kev87lads (Post 13411098)
^ I read that whole post in Brendan Shanahan's tone and demeanor. :lol Good stuff Matt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dduncan6er (Post 13411118)
The post would have been more effective with power point slides.

:lol :thumbsup:thumbsup If it helps, I was wearing a suit jacket with no tie... with shorts and flip flops. I'll see what I can do for the powerpoint.

kev87lads 03-07-2012 04:15 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Visual is clearer now. Thanks.

fonzz41 03-07-2012 04:26 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
1 Attachment(s)
For DJ and Kev:

dduncan6er 03-07-2012 04:30 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
:lol:lol:lol

fonzz41 03-07-2012 04:32 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
1 Attachment(s)
Actually, this one's for you, Kev:

lockman21 03-07-2012 04:37 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
My problem with Kronwall, and maybe not this specific hit, but just in general, is that he NEVER fights. He delivers that same exact check to so many guys right along the boards, and never, ever fights. If you're going to make a name for yourself destroying guys, at least drop the gloves occasionally. He fights about as much as Toews and Crosby.

efraser77 03-07-2012 04:40 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 13411172)
For DJ and Kev:

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 13411192)
Actually, this one's for you, Kev:

:lol these are awesome.

fonzz41 03-07-2012 04:44 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
^ I can understand this. At the very least, dropping the gloves once in a while sends a statement. This is almost completely unrelated, but I loved it when Gabriel Landeskog (a rookie) dropped 'em last week. He's been targeted a lot, especially the latter half of this season, and it was cool to see him make that statement.

On the other hand, fighting does suck for the guys fighting. If he does choose to fight, it should be because of something other than delivering a clean hit, on his own terms. If he throws a clean hit, then fights for it, does that set precedence that he is willing to fight EVERY time he does it? And if after that, for some reason, he doesn't fight after one, does that suddenly make him a pussy? I'm not entirely sure.

And all that being said, I am not a Kronwall fan by any stretch of the imagination.

dduncan6er 03-07-2012 04:48 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 13411219)
^ I can understand this. At the very least, dropping the gloves once in a while sends a statement. This is almost completely unrelated, but I loved it when Gabriel Landeskog (a rookie) dropped 'em last week. He's been targeted a lot, especially the latter half of this season, and it was cool to see him make that statement.

On the other hand, fighting does suck for the guys fighting. If he does choose to fight, it should be because of something other than delivering a clean hit, on his own terms. If he throws a clean hit, then fights for it, does that set precedence that he is willing to fight EVERY time he does it? And if after that, for some reason, he doesn't fight after one, does that suddenly make him a pussy? I'm not entirely sure.

And all that being said, I am not a Kronwall fan by any stretch of the imagination.

I dont think your obligated to drop them every time. But I do think its a bit hypocritical that people criticize Subban for stuff like that and the Kronwall gets a free pass. He knew as soon as he hit him it would draw a reaction. And skating around when you have someone confronting you after that is kind of cowardly imo.

Jsweeney 03-07-2012 04:48 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
to the point about fighting though, why was Rinaldo given his first unsportmanlike penalty and why the 10 min game mis conduct penalty at end of game? was there and didnt understand and/or see the tv coverage...

fonzz41 03-07-2012 04:54 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dduncan6er (Post 13411234)
I dont think your obligated to drop them every time. But I do think its a bit hypocritical that people criticize Subban for stuff like that and the Kronwall gets a free pass. He knew as soon as he hit him it would draw a reaction. And skating around when you have someone confronting you after that is kind of cowardly imo.

Yeah, like I said, it is important at times to make the statement that you won't back down when challenged. But there are many reasons a guy turns down a fight... maybe his coach has told him not to, maybe he's injured, maybe he just doesn't want to. I'm not saying any of that was going on with Kronwall, and I would personally like to see how he handles himself in an actual scrap.

TMoore4075 03-07-2012 05:33 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dduncan6er (Post 13411234)
I dont think your obligated to drop them every time. But I do think its a bit hypocritical that people criticize Subban for stuff like that and the Kronwall gets a free pass. He knew as soon as he hit him it would draw a reaction. And skating around when you have someone confronting you after that is kind of cowardly imo.

But again why should he fight if it's clean? Because the other teams players get pissed that he rocked his guy he should fight? I don't get that at all.

Plus Babcock would have killed his ass. No Lidstrom, no Ericsson and no Kindl and Kronner has been their best defenseman recently and he goes and fights and is off the ice for 5 minutes. What if he goes and breaks his hand while punching some guy and is gone long term? Was that worth it for a hit that was clean just to make the other team feel better about themselves?

fonzz41 03-07-2012 05:37 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
I would rather be called a Pussy every time I stepped on the ice than face the wrath of Babcock. :lol

lockman21 03-07-2012 05:38 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
It's not just about last night Tim, it's about ALL THE TIME.

Kronwall destroys some guy, that guy's teammates step up to defend him, and Kronwall goes and hides in the corner.

TMoore4075 03-07-2012 05:39 PM

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 13411375)
I would rather be called a Pussy every time I stepped on the ice than face the wrath of Babcock. :lol

Brendan Smith fought in his first game the other night and Babcock said afterwards that when we have 6 defensemen he can do what he wants but that was stupid. Sine he was gone for 5 minutes and Kindl left the game early they only had 4 D for those 5 minutes.


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