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-   -   The NHL Thread (http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

salrx95 12-03-2014 02:35 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
I feel like I will be seeing crazy stats like this a lot in the coming months.

The islanders now have 10 wins at home. They had 13 all of last year and just 10 2 years ago.

I doubt the jagr hit ends up resulting in a sūspension.

I picked up Raanta since Crawford will be out 2-3 weeks . Do you think he or Darling will get the bulk of the work? @lockman or whoever.

fonzz41 12-03-2014 02:38 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Just watched the hit for the first time using this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foCJqUxXhpk

There are three big things to look for in a situation like this.
1) Was the hit late?
2) What kind of motion was the hitter in? Multiple strides and acceleration? Leaving his feet?
3) Was the hit high?


The hit wasn't late, occurring about a second after Jagr released the puck. Bortuzzo was already in motion and really had no time to avoid the check at that point. He was within reason in terms of time. I also like that he wasn't striding into Jagr (Charging). He was already gliding and not over-accelerating, which is good.

The hit was a little high by today's standards. If Jagr would've continued his course around the net, that's probably a shoulder-on-shoulder hit. But it looks like Jagr made a sharper turn, probably to move up into the slot area. Good move, but probably opened his face up to receiving Bortuzzo's shoulder. PLEASE NOTE: I'M NOT BLAMING JAGR. There just wasn't a lot either player could do at this point. If anything, Bortuzzo could've aimed a little bit lower as he was going in for the hit. But even then, it's awfully close.

I don't see any reason for a suspension. I would be mildly surprised if a fine was levied.

dmbetc 12-03-2014 02:54 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
The big bad Bruins weren't big last night, just bad.

lockman21 12-03-2014 07:37 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Crawford out 2-3 weeks because he tripped and fell while wasted at a Rise Against concert.

Good Lord.

fonzz41 12-03-2014 07:38 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15702514)
Just watched the hit for the first time using this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foCJqUxXhpk

There are three big things to look for in a situation like this.
1) Was the hit late?
2) What kind of motion was the hitter in? Multiple strides and acceleration? Leaving his feet?
3) Was the hit high?


The hit wasn't late, occurring about a second after Jagr released the puck. Bortuzzo was already in motion and really had no time to avoid the check at that point. He was within reason in terms of time. I also like that he wasn't striding into Jagr (Charging). He was already gliding and not over-accelerating, which is good.

The hit was a little high by today's standards. If Jagr would've continued his course around the net, that's probably a shoulder-on-shoulder hit. But it looks like Jagr made a sharper turn, probably to move up into the slot area. Good move, but probably opened his face up to receiving Bortuzzo's shoulder. PLEASE NOTE: I'M NOT BLAMING JAGR. There just wasn't a lot either player could do at this point. If anything, Bortuzzo could've aimed a little bit lower as he was going in for the hit. But even then, it's awfully close.

I don't see any reason for a suspension. I would be mildly surprised if a fine was levied.

Looks like the NHL disagrees with me.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...enseless-jagr/

kev87lads 12-03-2014 09:19 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15703014)
Looks like the NHL disagrees with me.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...enseless-jagr/

Who's the nerd that gives the explanations now? He just sounded like a pencil geek. No offense to pencil geeks.

And the only thing I disagree with really, I guess, is the phrase they used in the explanation of "ample time" to avoid the hit. Going that speed, some time I guess, but not ample.

pathetic 12-03-2014 09:27 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by dmbetc (Post 15702560)
The big bad Bruins weren't big last night, just bad.


tough to be big and bad without best Dman and best scorer. still stuck around a goal down and had a lot of scoring chances in the third.

injured sad bruins right now. hope it's not too late when everyone's healthy

JRS1386 12-03-2014 09:54 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15703014)
Looks like the NHL disagrees with me.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...enseless-jagr/

Didn't read, but I disagree. The hit was hard and it was solid. I understand goign after high and reckless hits, but I don't feel this was one of them

bonzo48280 12-03-2014 11:27 PM

There are 4 so-called "superpowers" in the West. The Hawks are one. They just played the last 3 in a row and ran all 3 of them off the rink. Boo yah. Just sayin.

JRS1386 12-03-2014 11:30 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bonzo48280 (Post 15703296)
There are 4 so-called "superpowers" in the West. The Hawks are one. They just played the last 3 in a row and ran all 3 of them off the rink. Boo yah. Just sayin.

Saved for the inevitable HAwks skid and all the Hawks fans claiming the world is ending

bonzo48280 12-03-2014 11:53 PM

Not me dawg

~Crashintome89~ 12-04-2014 12:16 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 15702225)
why? no intent to injure and Bortz has never been suspended before

That hit was as late as they come.

Also high.

It was so shitty.

barbogast 12-04-2014 04:12 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 15703389)
That hit was as late as they come.

Also high.

It was so shitty.

Thank you. I was like, how am I the only one who saw it as a pretty late hit? Flyers fan making sense.

Alazais 12-04-2014 11:15 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
God Damnit. I hate that I picked Mason in my fantasy pool. They are the absolute worst. I've always hated Philly. Scum Bags. They couldn't win a game if the opposition had no goalie. Fuck you Flyers.

~Crashintome89~ 12-04-2014 11:18 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
1967. 888888

hailtopitt 12-04-2014 11:36 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 15703389)
That hit was as late as they come.

Also high.

It was so shitty.

not as late as they come...i've seen hits much later than that go unpunished (David Steckel *cough*)

elbow was tucked, there was no targeting

i'm fine with 2 games because whatever, i hope he does it again if the opportunity presents itself...he went hard at Jagr's chest

Alazais 12-04-2014 11:37 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
It's true. The Leafs haven't won a cup since 1967. This isn't a commentary on that. If that's the debate you'd like to turn it into that's fine. But My fucking god the Flyers are bad. Scum of the earth bad. I hate that I picked up Mason. Get a fucking win... or at least come close sometimes... brutal.

barbogast 12-04-2014 11:56 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 15703911)
not as late as they come...i've seen hits much later than that go unpunished (David Steckel *cough*)

elbow was tucked, there was no targeting

i'm fine with 2 games because whatever, i hope he does it again if the opportunity presents itself...he went hard at Jagr's chest

:rolleyes

swordo84 12-04-2014 12:05 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
LolololololOilers. Amiright gang??

~Crashintome89~ 12-04-2014 12:07 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Alazais (Post 15703914)
It's true. The Leafs haven't won a cup since 1967. This isn't a commentary on that. If that's the debate you'd like to turn it into that's fine. But My fucking god the Flyers are bad. Scum of the earth bad. I hate that I picked up Mason. Get a fucking win... or at least come close sometimes... brutal.

you should never pick a Flyers goalie for fantasy. That's like fantasy 101.

hailtopitt 12-04-2014 12:14 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 15703944)
:rolleyes

:lol:lol

edit: knew you'd respond to that

fonzz41 12-04-2014 12:15 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 15703389)
That hit was as late as they come.

Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 15703616)
Thank you. I was like, how am I the only one who saw it as a pretty late hit? Flyers fan making sense.

Disagree, my friends.

What I don't like about the NHL's explanation is they make all sorts of mention about how far away the puck is by the time is delivered and such. But it's almost less than a SECOND from when Jagr releases the puck at 2:12 to when Bortuzzo hits him at 2:11. And I was just going off the time on the screen. That's a perfectly reasonable time to check a player, and happens at multiple instances during a game. Watch zone-clearing passes in particular. A d-man gathers the puck in the corner, chips it out, gets checked a second later. Happens ALL the time.

Back to the thing about where the puck was at the time of the hit. Of COURSE the puck is already in the slot by the time the hit takes place. These guys aren't waffling the puck around like my son who is 5. They are NHL players making NHL passes to create scoring chances. They're going to be quick.

You slow the play down (like the video does OVER AND OVER), of course it makes the hit look late. It will make any hit look late. But all you have to do, like I said before, is look at the real time to see it really wasn't all that late at all. If that's considered late, there should be a lot more interference calls made like that one every single game.

Where the hit was dangerous - and I mentioned this before - was because it hit the head. Was he targeting? Absolutely not. In fact, like I said before, if Jagr wouldn't have pivoted to go to the slot, it would've been shoulder-on-shoulder. Regardless, intent doesn't matter at that point. It hit the head and that made it dangerous.

JRS1386 12-04-2014 12:15 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 15703961)
you should never pick a Flyers goalie for fantasy. That's like fantasy 101.

Seriously, What an idiot

fonzz41 12-04-2014 12:21 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~ (Post 15703961)
you should never pick a Flyers goalie for fantasy. That's like fantasy 101.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRS1386 (Post 15703983)
Seriously, What an idiot

:lol:lol

That's like picking a NJD forward.

hailtopitt 12-04-2014 12:22 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15703978)
Disagree, my friends.

What I don't like about the NHL's explanation is they make all sorts of mention about how far away the puck is by the time is delivered and such. But it's almost less than a SECOND from when Jagr releases the puck at 2:12 to when Bortuzzo hits him at 2:11. And I was just going off the time on the screen. That's a perfectly reasonable time to check a player, and happens at multiple instances during a game. Watch zone-clearing passes in particular. A d-man gathers the puck in the corner, chips it out, gets checked a second later. Happens ALL the time.

Back to the thing about where the puck was at the time of the hit. Of COURSE the puck is already in the slot by the time the hit takes place. These guys aren't waffling the puck around like my son who is 5. They are NHL players making NHL passes to create scoring chances. They're going to be quick.

You slow the play down (like the video does OVER AND OVER), of course it makes the hit look late. It will make any hit look late. But all you have to do, like I said before, is look at the real time to see it really wasn't all that late at all. If that's considered late, there should be a lot more interference calls made like that one every single game.

Where the hit was dangerous - and I mentioned this before - was because it hit the head. Was he targeting? Absolutely not. In fact, like I said before, if Jagr wouldn't have pivoted to go to the slot, it would've been shoulder-on-shoulder. Regardless, intent doesn't matter at that point. It hit the head and that made it dangerous.

for the record, i think it's absolutely ridiculous that they even mention the severity of injury that the player being hit suffered. why is this even mentioned? if Jagr was able to continue playing does that mean Bortz doesn't get suspended? if so, that's hypocrisy. if not, why even mention it to begin with?

Bron Yr Aur 12-04-2014 12:23 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15703978)
Disagree, my friends.

What I don't like about the NHL's explanation is they make all sorts of mention about how far away the puck is by the time is delivered and such. But it's almost less than a SECOND from when Jagr releases the puck at 2:12 to when Bortuzzo hits him at 2:11. And I was just going off the time on the screen. That's a perfectly reasonable time to check a player, and happens at multiple instances during a game. Watch zone-clearing passes in particular. A d-man gathers the puck in the corner, chips it out, gets checked a second later. Happens ALL the time.

Back to the thing about where the puck was at the time of the hit. Of COURSE the puck is already in the slot by the time the hit takes place. These guys aren't waffling the puck around like my son who is 5. They are NHL players making NHL passes to create scoring chances. They're going to be quick.

You slow the play down (like the video does OVER AND OVER), of course it makes the hit look late. It will make any hit look late. But all you have to do, like I said before, is look at the real time to see it really wasn't all that late at all. If that's considered late, there should be a lot more interference calls made like that one every single game.

Where the hit was dangerous - and I mentioned this before - was because it hit the head. Was he targeting? Absolutely not. In fact, like I said before, if Jagr wouldn't have pivoted to go to the slot, it would've been shoulder-on-shoulder. Regardless, intent doesn't matter at that point. It hit the head and that made it dangerous.

I mean essentially this. That said, it was pretty damn late. I get your argument about the amount of time, but the puck being so far gone does have a bearing on this because it's not a hockey play to finish your check like that when the puck is not in the vicinity. Serves no purpose.

hailtopitt 12-04-2014 12:25 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur (Post 15704002)
I mean essentially this. That said, it was pretty damn late. I get your argument about the amount of time, but the puck being so far gone does have a bearing on this because it's not a hockey play to finish your check like that when the puck is not in the vicinity. Serves no purpose.

it serves a great purpose. do you even hockey?

mr.MikeD 12-04-2014 12:30 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by swordo84 (Post 15703957)
LolololololOilers. Amiright gang??

11 straight losses, awful record, and the only change so far is to the goal tending coach. Hard to believe.

fonzz41 12-04-2014 12:33 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 15704000)
for the record, i think it's absolutely ridiculous that they even mention the severity of injury that the player being hit suffered. why is this even mentioned? if Jagr was able to continue playing does that mean Bortz doesn't get suspended? if so, that's hypocrisy. if not, why even mention it to begin with?

Yeah, we've talked about that before in here. What you're saying is that a penalty is a penalty, whether or not it injures. Hard to disagree with that logic.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur (Post 15704002)
I mean essentially this. That said, it was pretty damn late. I get your argument about the amount of time, but the puck being so far gone does have a bearing on this because it's not a hockey play to finish your check like that when the puck is not in the vicinity. Serves no purpose.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the time. You simply can't veer out of a check in that amount of time when you're already on a trajectory like that.

If that hit was late and is considered Interference, there has to be at least half a dozen more Interference penalties per game because it happens all the time.

What made it dangerous was the head. If this would've been shoulder-on-shoulder, I doubt there would've even been a penalty called on the ice, much less supplemental discipline.

Bron Yr Aur 12-04-2014 12:42 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Not much makes me happier than seeing Hawks drop 3 goals on the Blues in about 4 mins last night....great way to cap off tough wins against the Ducks, Kings, and Blues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 15704030)
Yeah, we've talked about that before in here. What you're saying is that a penalty is a penalty, whether or not it injures. Hard to disagree with that logic.

It has EVERYTHING to do with the time. You simply can't veer out of a check in that amount of time when you're already on a trajectory like that.

If that hit was late and is considered Interference, there has to be at least half a dozen more Interference penalties per game because it happens all the time.

What made it dangerous was the head. If this would've been shoulder-on-shoulder, I doubt there would've even been a penalty called on the ice, much less supplemental discipline.

Well I certainly agree with this. We see it every year. And it's annoying. There are a lot of teams that are better at subtle interference plays than they are at actually playing hockey.

You are right, though, had it not been a high hit, nothing to talk about. But there was ample time to take the body, not lay a shoulder into Jagr's head.


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