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-   -   The NHL Thread (http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

bradshaw06 05-22-2016 11:26 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Hope all the people that pined for Fleury are satisfied.

mthawk07 05-22-2016 11:27 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
So I've pretty much stopped watching this series live. Every time I've watched, the Lightning have played like hot, stinky garbage, including the first period tonight. I stopped watching and played board games with my wife the rest of the night, and they win. Proudly won't be watching game 6. :lol

trd1610 05-22-2016 11:39 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
If you're the Pens do you go back to Murray in game six? If one shaky game, and it wasn't really that terrible by him, from MAF is enough to make you go back then why even make the switch to begin with?

bradshaw06 05-22-2016 11:44 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Yup. But the pens are run like a country club. So they'll prolly stick with fleury.

Lcsulla 05-22-2016 11:45 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by trd1610 (Post 16431628)
If you're the Pens do you go back to Murray in game six? If one shaky game, and it wasn't really that terrible by him, from MAF is enough to make you go back then why even make the switch to begin with?

Yeah, I agree you have to go back to him - MAF looked rusty tonight. Also, Pens need a better game out of Letang than they got tonight or their season ends Tuesday in Tampa.

bradshaw06 05-22-2016 11:48 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Letang has been horrid. He is probably the dumbest player in the league for the money he makes.

trd1610 05-22-2016 11:48 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16431633)
Yeah, I agree you have to go back to him - MAF looked rusty tonight. Also, Pens need a better game out of Letang than they got tonight or their season ends Tuesday in Tampa.



Idk what the answer is, I was more commenting on the position they put themselves in. I think they should've stayed with Murray to begin with, but if all it took was one loss by fleury to go back to him what were they thinking by putting him in to begin with? Now that it's an elimination game and your backs against the wall I guess you have to go to Murray, but it just seems like a mismanaged situation.

bradshaw06 05-22-2016 11:54 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Penguins mismanging something is nothing new.

JRS1386 05-22-2016 11:56 PM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
I love this. Keep it going, Bolts

barbogast 05-23-2016 07:03 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
What on earth caused them to go with MAF? Has Murray been bad this round?

unccrombie 05-23-2016 07:34 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16431699)
What on earth caused them to go with MAF? Has Murray been bad this round?

he got lit up the other night and MAF came in late.
sure looks like the wrong decision in hindsight
MAF let in some wonky goals.

barbogast 05-23-2016 07:37 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Vintage Fleury. Nice.

TMoore4075 05-23-2016 08:15 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Yeah I wouldn't have put in MAF. Sure Murray gave up 4 the other night but it wasn't all his fault and it's not like MAF had anything to do with the near comeback, that had to do with the TBL sitting back like teams tend to do up 4-0. I just don't get it. It wasn't like Murray's game put you down 0-2 and you think a change will do something. The loss, heavily to do with your team playing like shit, only put the series 2-2. You also have to wonder what Murray is thinking. It wasn't my fault and they put the veteran who hasn't played in 2 months in...I'd be hard pressed to find the last time a goalie who got a team all the way to a conference final was replaced after losing a game 4 like that after his team had previously won 2 in a row to go up 2-1. I questioned it yesterday when I saw it and obviously after a loss, you question it more.

unccrombie 05-23-2016 08:25 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
yeah, agreed Tim. can't imagine any sane spectator, fan or not, thought that was the right call

Dramageek 05-23-2016 10:13 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bradshaw06 (Post 16431614)
Hope all the people that pined for Fleury are satisfied.

Mark Madden certainly will be :lol Murray wasn't exactly a wall this series, though. And I posit that the goaltender is not the problem here.

hailtopitt 05-23-2016 10:17 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Daley being hurt completely demolishes the Pens' blue line

that's the bottom line

plus Tampa is thwarting the big guns

Lcsulla 05-23-2016 10:20 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
It is tough for me to criticize Sullivan's decision to start Fleury last night despite the result. Murray had a dud in game 4 and Fleury came on and did absolutely everything right giving the Pens a chance to nearly complete an epic comeback. It is also reasonable to wonder if Murray (who has been amazing all postseason) was hitting a bad stretch that all goalies hit. You have to remember the kid is only 21 years old and has played in a grand total of 13 playoff games, maybe Sullivan thought the pressure was catching up to him. We have all seen it happen to goalies on other teams, hell last year the Hawks season almost ended in a first round loss because Crawford looked so awful against Nashville and Q put in Darling who saved the season. Hence enter Fleury who has started 100 playoff games and won more often than lost, plus he has been there and done that in a deep run that ended up with him holding the cup. Guessing Murray will be back in net tomorrow but the bottom line is that Pittsburgh needs to do more to limit TB's scoring chances, they need Crosby and Malkin to step up, they need to bury more chances and they really need to stop taking stupid penalties against a damn good TB power play. Tough to really fault a goalie who is not getting much support and being peppered with shots, also if Kucherov does not put that in the back of the net with 3 minutes left to tie it the decision to start Fleury would be seen as a genius move. You also have to credit the resiliency of Tampa and how good Vasilevskiy has played while Bishop has been out. Just some bad breaks, I fully expect tomorrow to be another battle with maybe some line juggling by Sullivan and if I am Cooper I do not fix what isn't broken even if Bishop is available.

Be interesting tonight to see if another goalie 'controversy' alters the outcome when Allen starts instead of Elliot for St. Louis, no prediction on whether it helps or harms them.

barbogast 05-23-2016 10:26 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16431887)
It is tough for me to criticize Sullivan's decision to start Fleury last night despite the result. Murray had a dud in game 4 and Fleury came on and did absolutely everything right giving the Pens a chance to nearly complete an epic comeback. It is also reasonable to wonder if Murray (who has been amazing all postseason) was hitting a bad stretch that all goalies hit. You have to remember the kid is only 21 years old and has played in a grand total of 13 playoff games, maybe Sullivan thought the pressure was catching up to him. We have all seen it happen to goalies on other teams, hell last year the Hawks season almost ended in a first round loss because Crawford looked so awful against Nashville and Q put in Darling who saved the season. Hence enter Fleury who has started 100 playoff games and won more often than lost, plus he has been there and done that in a deep run that ended up with him holding the cup. Guessing Murray will be back in net tomorrow but the bottom line is that Pittsburgh needs to do more to limit TB's scoring chances, they need Crosby and Malkin to step up, they need to bury more chances and they really need to stop taking stupid penalties against a damn good TB power play. Tough to really fault a goalie who is not getting much support and being peppered with shots, also if Kucherov does not put that in the back of the net with 3 minutes left to tie it the decision to start Fleury would be seen as a genius move. You also have to credit the resiliency of Tampa and how good Vasilevskiy has played while Bishop has been out. Just some bad breaks, I fully expect tomorrow to be another battle with maybe some line juggling by Sullivan and if I am Cooper I do not fix what isn't broken even if Bishop is available.

Be interesting tonight to see if another goalie 'controversy' alters the outcome when Allen starts instead of Elliot for St. Louis, no prediction on whether it helps or harms them.

Was Murray really that bad in game 4? It just seems like a questionable move since Murray has carried them so well all postseason to sit him after one bad game, unless it was completely terrible I guess. I know MAF has been successful for them, but just not sure it's the right move to put him in after you're goalie that's done so so well has one off night.

Of course this is coming from someone who didn't watch so maybe Murray really was awful, and I'm sure that's not the only reason Tampa is up. Losing Daley is huge

Dramageek 05-23-2016 10:35 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16431884)
Daley being hurt completely demolishes the Pens' blue line

that's the bottom line

plus Tampa is thwarting the big guns

This. Daley being hurt sucks hard. That certainly doesn't help the goaltenders at all when Tampa creates dangerous chances.

And Tim, I understand your point completely, but Fleury isn't just "the veteran." He is a Stanley Cup winner who, prior to his injury, was having a stellar season. Fleury was the reason the Pens had a pulse and stayed in the playoff hunt during the last days of the Mike Johnston era. Murray had to understand that once Fleury was healthy, he'd be on some sort of leash.

I don't know what they do, now. Playing the goalie carousel is never a good idea, but the goaltending really isn't the problem. The offense has still been able put up 2-4 a game, even with Tampa's great defensemen. Maybe try to get 5-6 this time.

MOWJO8185 05-23-2016 10:40 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Waiting anxiously to hear about Backes and Fabbri tonight.

unccrombie 05-23-2016 10:41 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
healthy and game ready are 2 different topics for discussion though.

barbogast 05-23-2016 10:48 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 16431914)
This. Daley being hurt sucks hard. That certainly doesn't help the goaltenders at all when Tampa creates dangerous chances.

And Tim, I understand your point completely, but Fleury isn't just "the veteran." He is a Stanley Cup winner who, prior to his injury, was having a stellar season. Fleury was the reason the Pens had a pulse and stayed in the playoff hunt during the last days of the Mike Johnston era. Murray had to understand that once Fleury was healthy, he'd be on some sort of leash.

I don't know what they do, now. Playing the goalie carousel is never a good idea, but the goaltending really isn't the problem. The offense has still been able put up 2-4 a game, even with Tampa's great defensemen. Maybe try to get 5-6 this time.

What is the problem, in your opinion? The Penns should be winning games where they get 4 goals in the playoffs. Trying to do the high scoring fire wagon thing isn't really a good formula for success

TMoore4075 05-23-2016 10:48 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16431900)
Was Murray really that bad in game 4? It just seems like a questionable move since Murray has carried them so well all postseason to sit him after one bad game, unless it was completely terrible I guess. I know MAF has been successful for them, but just not sure it's the right move to put him in after you're goalie that's done so so well has one off night.

Of course this is coming from someone who didn't watch so maybe Murray really was awful, and I'm sure that's not the only reason Tampa is up. Losing Daley is huge

I watched half the game and then the highlights, it wasn't all his fault. Was he great? No but the team wasn't either and I go back to he had gotten you to a 2-1 series lead in the ECF's before losing game 4 and you start the guy who had played 20 minutes over the last 2 months. First goal of game 4 was tipped, 2nd one Suster was wide open , 3rd was a PPG with Drouin all alone. It's not like he was giving up goals the way MAF was in 2012 or 2013. I'm just not sure as a coaching decision what are you saying to your young goalie who was 9-3 and the team plays crappy in front of him and you put in the other guy.

Lcsulla 05-23-2016 10:51 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16431900)
Was Murray really that bad in game 4? It just seems like a questionable move since Murray has carried them so well all postseason to sit him after one bad game, unless it was completely terrible I guess. I know MAF has been successful for them, but just not sure it's the right move to put him in after you're goalie that's done so so well has one off night.

No, he was not as bad as the scoresheet indicated IMO, the Pens just gave him no support and were down 4-0 after 2 periods and they replaced him with Fleury who responded by blocking everything TB threw at him and allowing Pittsburgh to end up losing 4-3 and nearly tying it up towards the end but being stopped by some timely saves. It was almost the same thing as last night, the Pens failed to cash in on some opportunities, they let TB have their way in the O zone, Crosby and Malkin did not pay as good as we've come to expect and they took too many stupid penalties.

Tough for me to fault a goalie when a team just isn't playing that good in front of him, not backchecking as well they have through the playoffs, giving up too many odd man rushes and truthfully I did not think losiing Daley would loom so badly for the Pens. Perhaps they are gassed and all the killer play they have done since that awful start is catching up with them, then add in a blowout series against the Rangers and a pretty tough series against Washington and maybe they have just played too many games in the past 6 months and it is getting to them. I don't have an answer but if Pittsburg wants to avoid being eliminated tomorrow in Tampa they better find some answers.

Dramageek 05-23-2016 11:02 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by barbogast (Post 16431943)
What is the problem, in your opinion? The Penns should be winning games where they get 4 goals in the playoffs. Trying to do the high scoring fire wagon thing isn't really a good formula for success

I agree. If they put up 3-4 goals, they absolutely should win. I'm not saying they should have go to the high scoring fire wagon method. But that's what has been driving me bonkers going back to Game 6 of the Caps series. Go up 3-0, let the Caps back in it. Game 2 against Tampa: Go up 2-0, let Tampa back in it and win in overtime. Last night: Go up 2-0, let them back in it. Go up 3-2, and they tie it. Lose in overtime. All credit to Washington and Tampa for creating the scoring chances necessary to come back and taking advantage of them. But the Pens need to do more to prevent that from happening.

And honestly I don't know what they do right now. Should they have put in Fleury? Probably not. But Murray was also giving up at least one soft goal a game. Tighten up and play better in front of the goaltender.

TMoore4075 05-23-2016 11:08 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 16431914)
And Tim, I understand your point completely, but Fleury isn't just "the veteran." He is a Stanley Cup winner who, prior to his injury, was having a stellar season. Fleury was the reason the Pens had a pulse and stayed in the playoff hunt during the last days of the Mike Johnston era. Murray had to understand that once Fleury was healthy, he'd be on some sort of leash.
.

He is a Cup winner... 7 years ago but he's had more playoff flops in recent memory than great playoffs. Yes he was having a great year, one of his best, but that was 2 months ago with no games (other than 20 minutes) since then and this was game 5 of the ECF's. If this series was happening in round one, and they lose game 4 to go 2-2 and MAF was healthy I'd have no problem with it. He would have only been out a few weeks and you question having a kid in there. Short leash then I see but the leash should be much longer when you are 9-4 and your team played like crap in the first two periods of game 4.

I'm not a coach of a team in that position, so I get why Sullivan probably feels the pressure to do that, but me sitting on the outside this guy got you there and MAF hasn't played since March 31st.

Quote:

Originally Posted by unccrombie (Post 16431927)
healthy and game ready are 2 different topics for discussion though.

This. I don't care what he did in the season, he hadn't missed 2 months with a concussion then.

Dramageek 05-23-2016 11:15 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TMoore4075 (Post 16431994)
He is a Cup winner... 7 years ago but he's had more playoff flops in recent memory than great playoffs. Yes he was having a great year, one of his best, but that was 2 months ago with no games (other than 20 minutes) since then and this was game 5 of the ECF's. If this series was happening in round one, and they lose game 4 to go 2-2 and MAF was healthy I'd have no problem with it. He would have only been out a few weeks and you question having a kid in there. Short leash then I see but the leash should be much longer when you are 9-4 and your team played like crap in the first two periods of game 4.

I'm not a coach of a team in that position, so I get why Sullivan probably feels the pressure to do that, but me sitting on the outside this guy got you there and MAF hasn't played since March 31st.


This. I don't care what he did in the season, he hadn't missed 2 months with a concussion then.

True. But I doubt Fleury totally forgot how to play in those two months, whatever rust might be there. It's a tough call either way. If they ride Murray all the way and lose, there will be the lingering question of "Should they have tried Fleury for a game when Murray started struggling?" At the very least that's been put to bed.

TheLastPig 05-23-2016 11:32 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Last night was a tough loss. Really hard to decide which goalie to play. I cant fault Sullivan for going with MAF, and I would assume MAF plays tomorrow.

Im still not panicking, I figured this would go 7, I have a good feeling about tomorrow for the Pens. Missing Daley is huge though, Letang trying to over-compensate for it and he has a bad game.

Need goals for 87 and 71 though, thats the bottom line right now. Sid was nowhere to be found last night, playing Bennett with him was a horrible decision IMO, especially with Sid. I would think Sheary gets back in there tomorrow.

jrkarger 05-23-2016 11:37 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Malkin has been Keyser Soze this whole damn series except for his goal in Game 4. Any time he decides to do something it's normally a whiff on a pass or a turnover in the neutral zone.

Dramageek 05-23-2016 11:45 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jrkarger (Post 16432054)
Malkin has been Keyser Soze this whole damn series except for his goal in Game 4. Any time he decides to do something it's normally a whiff on a pass or a turnover in the neutral zone.

Don't forget that offensive-zone penalty!


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