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-   -   *Prompter Thread* (NO personal attacks, trolling, but Hamilton discussion OK) (http://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=343913)

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 08:44 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyh24 (Post 16814235)
It's simple. There are people out there with conditions. Conditions that can worsen if you don't live the right lifestyle. Some decide to take care of themselves and some don't. The people that don't are obviously going to cost more money to help in the long run.

Right...although you don't have to already have a "condition." If a perfectly healthy 20 year old starts smoking 2 packs day along with a 6 pack of Bud and fast food for every meal, they will end up with some combo of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer.

coldengrey12 06-13-2017 08:47 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyh24 (Post 16814235)
It's simple. There are people out there with conditions. Conditions that can worsen if you don't live the right lifestyle. Some decide to take care of themselves and some don't. The people that don't are obviously going to cost more money to help in the long run.

Who decides what "the right lifestyle" is?

Route_2 06-13-2017 08:48 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gryspn41 (Post 16814170)
We do the same thing to other governments don't we? Why should we expect anyone else to stay out of ours?

If people paid more attention to the politicians and looked at their own words and voting records then it wouldn't matter who interfered in our elections.

WTF? Let's concede we do it to other countries. Is that supposed to mean that we just rollover and let Russia do it to us without any repercussions or investigations to find out the who/why/what/where and when in order to improve our defenses for next time and hold anyone that aided them accountable? It sounds like that's what you're saying, but you couldn't be saying that because that would be ludicrous.

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 08:48 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
universal healthcare would make my early retirement easier...that's for sure!

coldengrey12 06-13-2017 08:48 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
A dated example, but what about someone like Jim Fixx? Health nut and runner. Fucking guy dropped dead of a heart attack at 52. So I still dunno what "the right lifestyle" means.

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 08:51 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coldengrey12 (Post 16814249)
Who decides what "the right lifestyle" is?

I think the only way of doing it is taxing known bads. Sugar, alcohol, tobacco...gray area on what evidence you need to add something to the list, but I think those 3 would go a long way to paying for universal care.

rickyh24 06-13-2017 08:51 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coldengrey12 (Post 16814249)
Who decides what "the right lifestyle" is?



Your doctor. This question serious?

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 08:53 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coldengrey12 (Post 16814254)
A dated example, but what about someone like Jim Fixx? Health nut and runner. Fucking guy dropped dead of a heart attack at 52. So I still dunno what "the right lifestyle" means.

yeah, but now your talking about the tails. Lets keep focused on the middle 90%...not the 5% on each end. There are people that can completely abstain from sugar, alcohol, and tobacco, and still die of cancer or heart attack at 50. There's also people that smoke/drink/eat like shit and live to 90. But those are the extremes. Let's focus on the middle.

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 08:54 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyh24 (Post 16814259)
Your doctor. This question serious?

I think he means how do you actually implement charging people with unhealthy lifestyles more.

coldengrey12 06-13-2017 08:55 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmarvich (Post 16814260)
yeah, but now your talking about the tails. Lets keep focused on the middle 90%...not the 5% on each end. There are people that can completely abstain from sugar, alcohol, and tobacco, and still die of cancer or heart attack at 50. There's also people that smoke/drink/eat like shit and live to 90. But those are the extremes. Let's focus on the middle.

It sounds like your system wants to penalize those people monetarily.

rickyh24 06-13-2017 08:55 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmarvich (Post 16814248)
Right...although you don't have to already have a "condition." If a perfectly healthy 20 year old starts smoking 2 packs day along with a 6 pack of Bud and fast food for every meal, they will end up with some combo of heart disease, diabetes, and cancer.



Right. I'm more of less talking about what happens when you find out about your condition. Once you are diagnosed with something like diabetes you have a choice to make. You can improve your lifestyle or keep just shoving what you want down your throat. A person who makes the right decision is going to be infinitely less expensive to maintain health care wise.

coldengrey12 06-13-2017 08:55 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmarvich (Post 16814261)
I think he means how do you actually implement charging people with unhealthy lifestyles more.

Exactly. Thank you.

coldengrey12 06-13-2017 08:56 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyh24 (Post 16814263)
Right. I'm more of less talking about what happens when you find out about your condition. Once you are diagnosed with something like diabetes you have a choice to make. You can improve your lifestyle or keep just shoving what you want down your throat. A person who makes the right decision is going to be infinitely less expensive to maintain health care wise.

I think that's pretty presumptuous about what someone should do with their body and their life.

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 08:56 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
you could also provide tax credits for passing certain fitness challenges...running a mile < 8 minutes, swimming a mile, etc. but that's hard to implement. not sure if overhead would cover cost savings from behavioral change

rickyh24 06-13-2017 08:57 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmarvich (Post 16814261)
I think he means how do you actually implement charging people with unhealthy lifestyles more.



With universal health care you probably don't right?

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 08:58 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coldengrey12 (Post 16814262)
It sounds like your system wants to penalize those people monetarily.

no not at all. I want universal care. I just want to tax the shit out of things that directly contribute to people becoming unhealthy bc of poor personal choices.

rickyh24 06-13-2017 08:59 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coldengrey12 (Post 16814267)
I think that's pretty presumptuous about what someone should do with their body and their life.



:lol :lol

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 08:59 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coldengrey12 (Post 16814267)
I think that's pretty presumptuous about what someone should do with their body and their life.

but you're talking about others paying for their poor choices.

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 09:00 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyh24 (Post 16814269)
With universal health care you probably don't right?

That's why I think we need universal + sin tax on shit we know drives up medical expenses and makes us unhealthy.

coldengrey12 06-13-2017 09:02 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyh24 (Post 16814272)
:lol :lol

Damn. I would've swore I was talking to you.

I think we get into "right to life" territory pretty fast. If someone has cancer and refuses to get treatment because they don't want to fight it, are you going to charge that person more for that decision? Isn't that their choice?

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 09:04 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coldengrey12 (Post 16814281)
Damn. I would've swore I was talking to you.

I think we get into "right to life" territory pretty fast. If someone has cancer and refuses to get treatment because they don't want to fight it, are you going to charge that person more for that decision? Isn't that their choice?

Under my plan...no. That's absolutely their choice.

rickyh24 06-13-2017 09:06 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by coldengrey12 (Post 16814281)
Damn. I would've swore I was talking to you.



I think we get into "right to life" territory pretty fast. If someone has cancer and refuses to get treatment because they don't want to fight it, are you going to charge that person more for that decision? Isn't that their choice?



They can do whatever they want. I'm just saying I don't wanna pay for it. If the guy with the shot liver wants to drink until he needs a transplant go ahead. If the diabetic wants to pound cake and cookies and ignore their meds until they need limbs cut off have at it. This is America. Do what you want. This is also why universal can't be a thing though.

coldengrey12 06-13-2017 09:08 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyh24 (Post 16814287)
They can do whatever they want. I'm just saying I don't wanna pay for it. If the guy with the shot liver wants to drink until he needs a transplant go ahead. If the diabetic wants to pound cake and cookies and ignore their meds until they need limbs cut off have at it. This is America. Do what you want. This is also why universal can't be a thing though.

We'll have to agree to disagree, but at least you're intellectually consistent. :thumbsup

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 09:10 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
But ricky - you're already paying for it today.

rickyh24 06-13-2017 09:17 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmarvich (Post 16814291)
But ricky - you're already paying for it today.



Obviously and I'm not a fan of it. I don't see universal health care improving that situation though. Do you?

Arby 06-13-2017 09:17 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Jesus, are we talking about the "right" lifestyle or the "healthy" lifestyle?

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 09:18 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arby (Post 16814296)
Jesus, are we talking about the "right" lifestyle or the "healthy" lifestyle?

Care to add some detail? Not sure what your point is here

coldengrey12 06-13-2017 09:19 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Arby (Post 16814296)
Jesus, are we talking about the "right" lifestyle or the "healthy" lifestyle?

You will live as the government tells you to live, emotional flesh sack.

Arby 06-13-2017 09:21 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mdmarvich (Post 16814298)
Care to add some detail? Not sure what your point is here

Maybe I skimmed thru too quickly but it seems like the argument from the last page or so is just a miscommunication on one word.

EDIT: post 30002?

mdmarvich 06-13-2017 09:21 PM

Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by rickyh24 (Post 16814295)
Obviously and I'm not a fan of it. I don't see universal health care improving that situation though. Do you?

Honestly I don't think it will impact it either way. I also dont think obscene sin taxes will much impact choices. BUT they would raise a shit ton of money, and the majority of that money will come from people making poor health decisions most often. And I think there would be savings w/ universal from overall administration costs, drug prices, and savings from preventative care versus waiting for mild issues to turn into emergencies.


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