Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Right, and that's the point I was hoping to make. There's not one special move this team is going to make that's going to just magically turn things around.

People around here keep trying to come up with one HUGE thing that needs to happen. Fire Q. Fire Bowman. Trade Kane for Rick Nash. No. Stop. There are multiple things that need to happen without completely rerouting the direction this team is moving.

You have your superstars playing hurt, a system that's broken, and a couple of pieces just missing. It is a blowup that is months in the making, and a lot of Hawks fans felt coming (but didn't want to admit it).

There are steps that need to be taken, and Kitch is just one of them. Obviously I believe that Roy is another. I know that Bowman LOVES to stack depth in Rockford, but there are only so many B-/B/B+ prospects you can keep down in the AHL for so long. At some point you gotta either trade them for talent now (Roy) or bring them up to the big show and see what they can do. Everyone keeps talking about how much depth the Hawks have in their organization (AHL/NHL-wise), but they don't DO anything with it. Trade Morin and Pirri, get some guys on the squad that needs it.

Also, I just want to say I feel for Nick Leddy. People need to leave the kid alone. I hope all this scrutiny/pressure doesn't ruin the kid. He's a 20 year old offensive defenseman. Those don't just develop overnight. Give the kid some time. He shows flashes of brilliance, but yeah, he's going to make his mistakes. It should be expected. You can't just expect a 20 year old to come out and be a superstar defenseman.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

All very interesting points. The problem I have with Quenneville is that, if those are Kitchen's systems, and Q continues to go with it, then he is saying that he believes they can work. Very few, if any, other teams play that triangle+1 PK system that we are running because it is way too passive. The fact is, team's are breaking it down and making it look closer to a 5-on-3 because the +1 guy just can't disrupt the play enough all by himself.

I think Bowman definitely had some misses in the off-season...Brunette hasn't done much, Montador has been ok, the Frolik contract was just brutal. Carcillo was a nice signing, as the physicality seems to be completely lost from this team since Jan. 1st. However, Bowman, unlike Tallon, knows that there is a cap and that it must be managed. The fact is, he has significantly added to the Hawks' minor-league depth and our system is fantastic.

I think Kane's wrist injury before season certainly affected his shot a bit, but right now I think he's as healthy as you could expect any NHL'er to be at this point in the season. He's playing a bit better lately. Sharp might be a bit hurt but he's probably playing the best hockey of any of the Hawk forwards lately. Toews is clearly playing hurt.

The thing about Derek Roy is that, he's a good player, but he's not helping the team defense all by himself, and he doesn't address the need in goal. At this point, it's hard to see Crawford figuring it out. He's been downright terrible in each of his starts since the Vancouver game. I think you just have to hope he can get it back together next season. But right now, I think I'm finally convinced that we probably do need a goaltender. And right now, if Hammer and Monty are going to be out for any length of time, we need a d-man, too. So that's three needs...at this point, I don't think it's worth it to unload a bunch of prospects (because you never know who out of McNeill/Pirri/Saad/etc. are going to bloom into great players) just to attempt to rekindle the magic under the same system. Not worth it.

THere isn't one magic move and everyone needs to be held accountable. Certainly it isn't all Q's fault and he is a very good coach. But, if he can't turn it around, changing the head coach is the easiest way to shake things up. Right now, this team probably needs a coach that is going to challenge them to play physically and with some real discipline. They just aren't doing that under Q and so, yeah, of course a lot of the blame should go to the players if they aren't willing to go to the dirty areas and play tough defense and block shots. But sometimes you just need a coach who will be a bit tougher on them. A lot of good coaches get fired and I think Q's time just might be up.

Thing is, Pirri could turn into a slightly lesser version of Roy, and Roy isn't exactly putting together a sparkling year. So, tough for me to think we dump him when he could develop into a strong, cheap option for the next few years.

Yeah, I agree. The problem here is on Q, though. He's mishandled the defense by not playing Montador enough minutes, rarely giving Lepisto a game, and playing Leddy way too much, and putting Leddy on the PK. Maybe a shift on the PK here and there would be ok, but Leddy was on the ice for 7 mins short-handed against Edmonton. That cannot happen, and that's certainly not helping his confidence. He still needs time to develop his defensive game.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

We already have enough #6 D men. Leddy should be on the 3rd pair with Montador, he has been brutal this season. Team needs a 3-4 veteran D-man they can play with Hammer. We already have enough 6th d-men in O'Donnel, Scott, Lepisto, etc.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Hawks will be in a dogfight the rest of the season for the 6th-8th spot. Team D and goaltending have been mediocre all season long and that isn't just going to magically change out of nowhere. Mike Kitchen isn't going anywhere either even though he is long overdue to be fired. Q is in charge if he sees that the PK and PP system suck ass then he needs to make the change, clearly he is content with the way it's been going so far. Triangle and 1 PK is an absolute joke, you notice when the Hawks are on the PP the other team pressures the hell out of the points and Hawks can't set anything up for the life of them. Why they don't try this on the PK when they are near dead last in the league is beyond me.

Top players have been invisible last few weeks but wouldn't be surprised if Toews/Sharp still hurting more than they let on. Saturday was one of the most lifeless games I've ever seen them play in person and I went to more than a fair share of games in the dark ages to know lifeless when I see it. Hopefully one win snaps them out of it and they can get back to earning some points but this week is setting up to be miserable again.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Washington Capitals are going to win the Stanley Cup this year. Book it. Take it to vegas. Hell I'm putting a g down on them to win it all baby!

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Agreed, 100%. Which is why I was saying he is and isn't the problem. Q needs to be separated from Kitch, really does. It's a shit system, both on the PK and the PP.

You and I are never going to agree with the Carcillo signing, so I'm just going to not address that :lol

Again, I think the depth in the system is all fine and good, but there has to be a line drawn when you stop just piling up B-level prospects, and start making a splash elsewhere.
Yeah, Tallon can easily be blamed for the cap problems, obviously, and that has become like beating a dead horse. The argument can be made that he was paying guys that money just because no one wanted to play here. He’s doing the same in FL. No one wants to play in Florida. No one, unless you pay them. You gotta overpay sometimes when you’re in a market that no one wants to come to. Arguing Tallon is pointless at this juncture though.

Kane recently (today I think?) said that his wrist still bothers him, and it “has it’s good days and it’s bad days”. He’s definitely still hurt.
1) I don’t agree that there is a “need in goal”. Tenders go through their struggles, and Craw’s seem to be 100% mental at this point, and it’s just getting worse. I have faith in him. That Vancouver series wasn’t a fluke. He single handedly won us games last year. I think he can still do that. I don’t want to rush out and break the bank on a goaltender. Who are we going to get? Bulin? Nabokov? No. Gotta have faith Crawford can get it done at this point. He’s just gotta get back to his game.

2) As far as Roy goes, what he does address is this: He gives Sharp and Hossa a legit scoring center to play with. He used to be a point-per-game guy. He can eat up minutes so that Kruger and Bolland don’t need to skate 17+ minutes a game. Kruger should be at around 12, not 17ish. That, in turn, strengthens the PK. So while, no, maybe not directly strengthening the PK, he lets the guys like Kruger and Bolland keep their wind for those shifts that we need them. Just a much more balanced attack. It gives us incredibly legit top 2 lines, with a checking line that’s as good as there is as well, being centered by Bolland.
Who knows what’s going on with Hammer at this point. He’s still not on IR so you gotta expect him back relatively soon. Can’t make a trade because some guy is hurt but not hurt enough for IR. I don’t exactly know what’s going on with Montador, not a lot has been said, but if he was doubtful for a game for a little while before being put on IR, it can’t be THAT bad. He would have been ruled out immediately.
I disagree, 100%. Can’t just throw the head coach in the fire because things aren’t working. As has been stated, look at lots of examples (this year’s Caps, the 02-03 Avs that were thrown around, etc.) Q has shown that he is a winner and knows how to win with these guys. It’s been a rough losing streak, but that doesn’t mean you need to completely dump what worked for 3+ years and abandon ship.
How quickly people forgot he brought a team that people thought would be OK/good to the WCF against Detroit, then won the Cup, then took a battered and bruised group that was half the team they were the year before to OT in game 7 against the SC runner-up. It’s not time to dump Q…yet. If we miss the playoffs and he wants Kitch to stay around another year…fire him. If we lose in the first round and he wants Kitch to stay around…fire him. If we miss the playoffs at all, I guess regardless of the Kitch situation, then yeah, fire him. But anything short of that…no. Not time to freak out and panic and ditch what lots of people thought was the best coach in town all of 4 weeks ago.
Eh, I’ve had enough “could” with Bowman. Morin, Ben Smith, Beach, Pirri…how many guys do we need that are a cheaper/less talented version of someone good? Beach could have gotten us A LOT not too long ago, look how that worked out. Time to stop waiting for these guys. I’m not saying dump the farm, but dump some of the farm. We don’t need to hold on to 100 of these guys. Make a move. Make one that counts. Bring in a Patrick Sharp like Tallon did. Bring in someone that we know has talent. Someone we already know is a player in this league. Buffalo is done with Roy, let’s fucking get him. Who on Buffalo is putting together a sparkling year? No one. Not even Ryan bleeping Miller. A change of scenery + playing with Sharp/Hossa for a guy that still young? Awesome. I’m sick of the guys that are too old just as much as I’m annoyed with all the guys that are too young. Get someone that is still in their prime that can make a difference now.
Yeah we can agree on that one.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

None of those guys are solid 6th defenseman though. OD should be our 7th. Scott should be sharpening skates. He does a nice job filling in every once and a while, but he's old as sin. He can't skate every night. It's going to be worse come playoff time if he needs nights off because he can't keep up.

If we can find a top 4 defenseman that fits under our cap along with someone like Roy and their contract ends at the end of this season AND we don't have to give up to much (Hal Gill? Maybe?), then absolutely. Maybe we can get Gill for a 3rd round pick + someone average from Rockford (or someone like Bickell), then again, absolutely, but I don't want to see them give up too much for a rental 2nd pair defenseman.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

See, this is where I take a bit of an issue with Kane. Sharp is going to have a bone taken out of his wrist at the end of the year and he says he's 100% ready to go, even if it's not true. Toews says nothing about his injury. Kane..."oh yeah, it still hurts, some goo days some bad." That kind of just shows the different attitude between 10/19 and 88. I'm not suggesting you get rid of Kane, but it's still something to note.

Man, I dunno. Nabokov is having a great season in front of the Islanders defense. If you could get him, I think you'd have to pull the trigger. And look, I agree that Crawford had a good year last year, but I disagree that it is mental. I think there is a reason he played so many years as a somewhat-above-average goalie in the AHL. You look at his movement, and it's just not quick enough, just not enough athleticism there. Even going back to highlights from last year, he is definitely not one of the quicker goalies. I think right now that's killing him. He's always losing his net and trying to scamper back into the crease. Teams have figured him out and he's trying to counter while in the middle of a grueling season without any confidence. Right now, better off putting some pressure off him and hoping he'll get it back next year.

Sure I certainly agree. Giving some stability to that line would be nice. Would not mind a Stalberg - Roy - Hossa 2nd line if that means Sharp - Toews - Kane comes back. But I worry that you throw Roy in there, and if the line doesn't generate offense for a couple of games, he gets jerked around the lineup like everyone else on the team.

Obviously we don't know what the deal is. Only the team knows, but if they go get a d-man I think you can be sure part of the reason is injury.

Look, the Blues did this after a slow start and with Hitch they've dominated. Sometimes you need a change of scenery. I believe (and we'd have to ask fonzz) Q's time ended in Colorado partly because they went on a slide and he just couldn't get it turned around. Right now, I look at Q and I think he just doesn't know how to get things back on track. The bizarre line juggling (Frolik to the 1st against SJ, Stalberg 7 mins TOI that game), Leddy playing so many minutes on the PK, soft d-system, no hitting style, etc...I think it just might be time for a change. It doesn't mean he's a bad coach, though.

I mean, you can't judge Bowman yet. He's been here for, what, 2 drafts? I think he did a pretty good job of getting out from under the cap hell while also acquiring guys like Leddy, Morin, Stalberg in the process. Beach has issues but it seemed like he was doing a lot better before getting hurt. Tough to judge Morin as he was down with a concussion for quite a while which has certainly hurt his development a bit. Pirri is 20 and is a PPG center in the AHL. Once he gets a bit stronger, and if he develops the two-way game a bit, he could be pretty damn good. Point is, if you trade Morin, Pirri, Beach, guys like that....then you are putting all your chips on Saad or McNeill who might be 2-3 years away. The point is, stock up on prospects because a lot of them aren't going to pan out. The more good prospects you have, the higher chance that some of them will develop into solid NHL'ers. I think the point is, you don't know who the Patrick Sharp's are going to be, so if you have a lot of good prospects, maybe you find the next Sharp.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I agree with almost everything you said so I'm going to cut this down so we aren't talking in circles.

The problem with drawing on teams like the Blues (or someone like the Ducks who seem to also have turned the corner), is that they hadn't won shit with their old coaches. Q has proven that he can and is a winner with this specific group of guys. It's not his time, yet. If this season is a bust, then yeah, it will be.



Agree to disagree. I understand what you're saying, but there has to be a line drawn where we stop just stacking potential in the AHL and go after something proven. Bowman hasn't landed one good, proven vet that can still play yet. Young talent developing is all fine and good, but when you have a core like this team, you need some here and now as well.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Damn, this thread is serious business today.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

fantabulous article on what the problem with the Hawks is: http://www.secondcityhockey.com/2012...uring-the-skid

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I know... not even a giggle for the Mike Underwood joke. ;)

I think Chris might have taken the cake for longest post EVER! :lol

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Which one? :lol:lol

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Dude, I thought you were a new poster with the new pic change. With you getting rid of the Sharp mugshot and dmbetc changing to the Kittens pic, I'm all sorts of screwed up!

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

:lol Take your pick

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I'm just way too excited about the E Street Band touring, I can't contain it anymore.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

No they are not 6th defensemen but unfortunately that is the role they have to serve on this team. I have a hard time seeing Bowman making a solid move for someone like Roy at this point with other teams bidding for him as well. My guess is it will be a 5th-6th defensemen from an eastern conference basement non-contender (Montreal, Carolina, Buffalo, Washington, etc) that they will try and plug on the 2nd pair. I'm not expecting too much this deadline though.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

you guys brought your A game tonight, solid posts :thumbsup

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I hope you're wrong. Really do.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

O/U the # of people that read that entire post (#7986)...

Setting the line at 2.5.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I hope so too but nothing Bowman has shown the last 2 deadlines would make me think he's going big.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

The Caps just gave up ANOTHER goal from center ice. All three goalies that have played for the Caps this year have given up one, and they've all been within the last two weeks. That's gotta be some kinda record.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

An interesting article, but it is certainly incomplete and overlooks part of the reason we are giving up so many GA. Fact is, yeah the Hawks have had a lot of periods where they've controlled play even strength, but you can't simply look at the numbers and lay all of the blame at the feet of the goaltenders. When you are giving up so many odd-man rushes, you are going to give up a lot of goals. The team is making pivotal mistakes & turnovers that lead to a lot of 2-on-1's, 3-on-2's, and some of those are ending up in the back of the net.

I think it would be interesting if you could find out how many 2-on-1's or breakaways the Hawks/opposition had during this streak.

That's a good point. But I still think Q has run out of answers and when that happens....he's gotta go.

This is a completely legitimate point. The team certainly does have too many kids playing right now, IMO.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Kimmo thinks that the overall effort is not there....hence his quote

Kimmo also seems to think that some of the defensive issues that the Flyers have been experiencing have been a result of a lack of commitment by the team to play their system night in and night out.

I'll be suuuuuuuuuper pissed if Homer tries to make a big splash at the deadline. The Flyers will not be legit contenders this year no matter who they get so I see no reason why the Flyers should part ways with some of their young talent (unless it is JVR)

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I read this just now so it made me laugh knowing what the score ended up being.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

Why the hate on JVR? Guy was on a thirty goal pace at the beginning of the season and has an abdominal injury that requires surgery in the off-season?

You're definitely reading way too much into Kimmo's comments. Laviolette mentioned in a phone conference that he agreed with the comments and was saying the same thing. It isn't because of the lack of effort--the Flyers have done a good job in that regard. They are just playing very good teams right now, and it's hard for them to win a game against the Rangers. Timonen appears more like the tough veteran who is frustrated with losing to a specific team, rather than a guy who is bitter about the lack of effort.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

tl; dnr; notes?

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I will admit, I skimmed. :lol No disrespect, buddy. :hug

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

If the Wings lose to Dallas to not break the record that'll suck. If Marty Turco was still playing there the Wings would probably win.

Re: NHL 2011/2012 Thread
 

I think the Wings steamroll tonight. A 5-1, 6-2 game.