End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

First off, this is the best song on the album in my opinion, and probably the best song they've released in a longgg time.

I don't understand the end of it though. It reminds me of the end of proudest monkey except the end of that song makes sense and the count works. What I'm talking about starts at 4:15. I've been playing drums since I was like six years old and I know how to hold tempos and keep count.

It sounds like they lose each other at 4:52 when carter starts smashing the china cymbal, after that it just goes crazy and they meet eventually at 5:12. Does anyone with tempo/count skills know if this makes any sense musically? Maybe I'm just not understanding this one but I really do think it's off and it sounds horrible. I've been covering DMB's music on the drums for a longg ass time and nothing has ever thrown me off like this.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

interesting, i don't know much about musical timing but did notice a change during the jam...i like the jam and invision this song turning into one of their classic 12-20 minute monsters live, anxious to hear others' responses to this

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

just checked it out. the 6 beat is maintained throughout that whole span, but where you're getting tripped up is when Boyd seems to start his little diddy on the 4, but he extends it to fill out the following 6

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

What time does Boyd come in?

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

Best song on the album.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

i'm talking about the part he's been playing for the whole jam, but he breaks up his usual pattern at various times by a beat or two, and I think the one that's throwing you off is at 4:14, and the china coming in makes it difficult to hear the recovery of the timing but it's there. the easiest thing to hold onto throughout is the bass. it remains the same count but does sound like it got changed

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

I'm listening to it through my shitty monitor speakers right now so there is no bass at all. I will check this out in my car in about an hour. Thanks dude

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

:freak

For what it's worth, I don't agree with either point

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

Just count...I just counted 123456 thru the whole jam section and it didn't change at all. Obviously Carter fucks with the beat a lot, as he does with a lot of songs and jam sections. But it's still in 6 and you can't really say they "lose each other."

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

similar to the final Boyd jam on Drive In Drive Out if I'm not mistaken

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Boyd's violin in the end comes out of your speakers and wraps around your head just like his descending violin solo in cry freedom. Just my 0.02.

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i felt the same way when i heard it first. it kinda feels like it switches from 6/4 to like a slow four during the jam or 6/8 or 12/8 based on stefans triplets. really if you follow stefans bassline throughout the jam hes the one keeping the groove and time going.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

its almost like that bela fleck song where they all play in different time signatures. Cause daves guitar line is going through out but it doesnt fit stefan when he starts the fast triplet bassline. which makes this song fuckin awesome haha

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

if you watch the video dave seems extremely focused on his guitar part becuase its hard to keep that going when everybody else is doing different shit

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I looove that jam. It sounds messed up but it's really straight forward. Just keep counting. Carter hits his crash cymbals on "1" every now and then to help you out (4:59, 5:02, 5:05)

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

They never lose each other. Carter keeps the time and the other members do meander some but they all get back in line at the end. Sounds great to me. Very Flecktones like.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

this. There is just so much going on in that jam that it sounds extremely convoluted, and possibly out of sync. But it is in fact just pure genius and perfection.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

It can be called Hemiola or Cross Rhythm. It's a type of polyrhythm; basically just a 3 against 2 pattern. If you think of it as 6/4 or a sort of half time 3/4 feel, you just think 8th or 16th note triplets in place of 8th/16th notes accordingly to go from a simple feel to a compound feel.

To me, I just feel it as if I'm in 9/8 for awhile. This technique is actually used a lot though it's oftentimes easy to miss as it's typically employed more in brief fills.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

yea when I counted I kept getting a 6/8 feel but then it seemed like I found the 9/8 as well. It's a very interesting piece of music and was wonderfully executed.

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There's no real meandering or change, just accents in different places to change the feel. Polyrhythm. Carter's playing in a compound (3) meter basically over the simple meter (2). Dave is still locked into the simple meter with the same riff, Stefan plays with Carter in compound. Tim's doing triplets on Carter's triplets. Aside from Carter's always incredible fills, it's all pretty straightforward; they're all playing to the same beat, just accenting different note patterns. Accents are amazing. It feels faster, but it's not!

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

Best thing they've released officially since BTCS if you ask me.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

That section specifically is just more cross-rhythm. Thinking in 3 still or 9/8 spread against two bars...

Before you have...

Make sense?

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

I love the sound Stefan gives in this piece. to me, that's what makes it. but, it's not JUST stefan, but his playing in time with Carter and how forward in the production he is, especially when they are changing the time...fantastic.

agree with Lillywhite being a perfect match. shame on record labels, the band, whoever that would stop him from producing any music that they want to release. such an unbelievable difference.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

speaking of weird timing that is kinda hard to figure out... does anyone know what's happening on certain parts of Belly Full? Dave is strumming and it sounds like a simple 4-count. but there's a few parts where it sounds like the strumming 'hic-cups' for lack of a better word. Anyone else notice that/know what is going on w/the timing there? i've thought it over and i can't figure it out. :confused

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

Again, I think it's just different beats getting a strong accent. On quick listeh, it seems there are times where the 2 gets the accent and the 1 is weak, and this at times makes the 3 feel almost like a 1, but it's still a straight 4 count. Again, accents are powerful; such a simple and effective way to break up otherwise boring rhythms a bit.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

100% agree. I was grinning from ear to ear, chills up and down when I first heard it.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

Listen to the bass...time is always kept by the bass player. Carter often strays from the feel to solo and embellish, the only way the band stays together is because of Fonzi in these situations. All the time feels solid to me. :thumbsup

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

Before today I really really liked this jam but now after probably my 20th listen I'm absolutely amazed and in love with this jam. Maybe the single best part of the album. Snow outside is now my second favorite song on AFTW

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

This jam is completely making my morning today. Love it.

Re: End of Snow Outside- Analyzing the jam
 

Love the jam, especially the drum work (as always!), but does anyone else get frustrated by the rising guitar line getting so loud and covering up the genius happening underneath?

J