Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

My sincere apologies. My anger at Ovechkin caused me to partially lose my ability to reason.

Please see below for amended post

#jacketsin5

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Yeah, wouldn't want to throw people you just called up into the NHL playoffs....

Hjalmarsson's 08-09 regular season games played: 21
Hjalmarsson's 08-09 playoff games played: 17

but I'll be told how that's different.


Exactly. That is the entire thing right there. The Hawks are a fast paced team that thrive at moving as a 5-man unit down the ice quickly. Handzus has no place on the team ONLY because of his speed.

Zus is only on this team for the playoffs, so I'm more willing to go with that than Bollig.

And the Bollig-Bickell argument has no weight. It was very clear that his knee was still hurt to start the year and then he hurt his other knee so he was skating on no knee's all year. Once he rested himself and healed both his knees during the Olympic break, he has been one of the Hawks better forwards and was playing very well when Toews and Kane were out.

The microcosm of how useless Bollig is is when the Hawks beat the Blues and Morin went out there and scored a great goal and changed the momentum of the game and shifted the energy of the entire building and ON THE NEXT SHIFT Bollig drops the gloves with Ryan Reeves in what was ultimately a completely useless fight. There's no convincing me Bollig should be in the lineup over Morin...his contributions are minimal. Versteeg over Morin is a crime as well...but that's another discussion.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Bickell-Regin-Morin was the Hawks best line while Toews and Kane were out. Morin's Corsi against STL was 85%...that's absurd.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

:lol can you imagine the melt situation we'd be looking at from bonzo if the blues beat the hawks?

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

It's certainly a possibility, and the organization needs to ask itself some questions. Do we want to focus on being competitive or making money? Ovie will make you money every year. The NHL loves him, his jersey sells, etc. It allows for things like multiple winter classics, etc. etc.

So if you decide you'd rather build a competitive team, the next question is can you do that with Ovechkin on your squad? He's never proven he can win on any level, so what would it take to build a team with him to win at this level? Can you do it with Backstrom and Green? They have money to spend this offseason, do they try to trade for Kesler? If you think you can win with Ovie, do you keep him as the captain?

If the answer is no, that you don't think Ovie is the right answer to build a Cup contender, how low are you willing to sell Ovie in order to start your rebuild? Can you handle the backlash that is sure to come from trading away a huge star like Ovechkin? What if Ovie pulls a Kovalchuck and goes running for the KHL if you trade him? Are there potential cap implications that you can handle/are willing to deal with if that happens?

Lots of questions, not a lot of answers.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Um, it's completely different. Were you around for that time, as in, following the Hawks closely to actually remember what happened there?

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

oh man I'm gonna have a terrible summer if the Hawks lose to the Blues

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Yes, absolutely

Bruce Boudreau said publicly after he was let go that he wasn't allowed to coach the way he wanted. Called out McPhee in particular.

Say what you want about Dale Hunter, but the guy isn't stupid. His war with Ovie got very public very quickly, and McPhee once again sided with Ovie. I believe there's too much love betweens the Caps and Hunter to make why he left completely public, but I don't really buy that Dale "wanted to give it a shot, and once they were out he was planning on going back to London all along". I know he loves the London Knights, and he and his family have a truly amazing thing going there, but he knew he wasn't going to be able to keep Ovechkin on the bench forever. And he also knew the Caps were doomed without a more defensive structure, starting mostly with commitment from Ovie, and McPhee has never done anything to indicate dissatisfaction with Ovechkin. So Dale Hunter left. And good for him.

And now there's this with Adam Oates. If there's one thing we know about Alex, it's that he'll blame someone else, every time. Another report came out yesterday that said he wants Oates back. But Oates is a coddler, worse than Bruce ever was. Which is why I think he'll stay and so will McPhee. They'll coddle Ovie.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

It'll probably be because of superstar Jeremy Morin and his ridiculous Corsi numbers why they lost.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

The only spot I think you're wrong in is that the building WILL empty out if this team loses for too long. And by loses, I mean, keeps missing the playoffs. Won't take more than three years of that and Verizon Center WILL be empty, just like it was after the '03 fire sale. You could fill the team with Ovechkins. Wouldn't matter

It already started this year to an extent

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

:lol And St. Louis's GWG comes from Bickell attempting to clear the zone and accidentally putting it into his own net.
Exactly. What they need is a leader, but if you strip Ovie of the captaincy, something he's obviously very proud of, will he just quit on the ice? Wouldn't put it past him.

There are plenty of teams that would pay well for him, even knowing his tendencies, personality, and attitude. But, to one of your questions, is addition by subtraction better, or addition by addition? Very risky, and it's too bad the Caps find themselves in this position purely because of a player.

If he were to be traded, I can see him doing well on a team like the Ducks, where Getzlaf is already the established leader (and a damn good one). The Cali lifestyle would suit Ovechkin too, I think. They probably couldn't afford Perry, Getzlaf, and Ovie... but maybe Perry goes over in the deal? Nah... who am I kidding? Perry for Ovie is way too lopsided. Washington would have to send over Green or something too.

Green is 100% expendable at this point. If I'm Washington, I absolutely hold on to Backstrom. I love his game and work ethic. Problem there is, he needs a scorer to be successful. Not a knock on him, just the nature of his style. He's a playmaking centerman, and thus needs finishing wingers.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Even in Ovie's rookie year in 05, the building was half empty. They were a better draw on the road that year by a lot

Leonsis cannot bank on Ovechkin selling tickets for the next 8 seasons if the team sucks

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

I never said the building wouldn't empty out, but the NHL will continue to market it's leading goal scorer until their faces turn blue, which in turn, will make the organization money.

Jersey sales, promotional games like the Winter Classic will continue to happen for Washington as long as Ovechkin is there.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

I really appreciated that from Hunter. Took balls.

The really sad thing is, Barbogast, that your team has some good pieces. I like the tandem of Holtby and Halak, both of whom seem suited to tandem duty. Two good defensive pieces in Alzner and Carlson. A world-class playmaker in Backstrom. Good gritty forwards like Brouwer and Chimera... this team has potential. It's too bad one guy can have such a negative impact.

EDIT: Sorry man :lol Really not trying to rub salt in the wounds.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Maybe, I dunno. I think you're underestimating the value of ticket sales. And I don't see the Caps getting another Winter Classic if they continue to get worse. I really don't

I think Ovie's charm in general will start to fade quicker than you're estimating if they keep missing the playoffs

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

The level of meltdown would depend largely on Corsi numbers.

Two HUGE issues spelled out right there. If you're going to keep him around, stripping him of the C or clearly taking his team away from him might have even worse ramifications, especially with the new CBA. Paying a cap hit for him to retire early and bolt for the KHL combined with losing him for nothing would be devastating.

Other issue being that if you want to trade him, who would a potential trade partner be? I could imagine most teams would kick the tires if he became available, but how many legit trade partners would exist? Vancouver certainly would be one, I would think. I mean, who else would be interested in taking him on AND has something that Washington would deem an acceptable return? Edmonton? I just don't see a lot of trade partners out there.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

The thing is though you're exactly right. I'll put the season that Chimera and Joel Ward just had up against any other team's 3rd line. Once Brooks Laich went out Troy Brouwer had an incredible finish to the team. Backstrom finished 3rd in assists and 1st in PP points. Holtby can be very good if coached correctly, and the kid they've got in the minors is very strong also. Alzner and Carlson are coming along exactly as planned. There's tons of good things happening in Washington.

Meanwhile Ovechkin goes pointless at even strength in the month if March. :rolleyes

Also Halak already said he doesn't wanna come back

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

I can see it going both the way Chris is talking, and the way you are.

I mean, it's just been this past year that analysts have started mentioning publicly what we've been talking about for 3+ years in here. Why don't we all have jobs at NBCSN yet?! :lol I would much rather listen to any of our regulars here over Dilbury.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Love this time of year. This video gives me chills every time.

http://youtu.be/jkzlXXdXe1Q

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

:lol:lol


I think teams would pay, especially those smaller market teams looking for the off-ice boost Ovechkin would bring.

But I agree with what is being implied here by all who have chimed in... the longer McPhee waits, the worse it's going to get. The secret is getting out.
Chimera is one of the most underrated 3rd liners in the game. Always working hard, doing his part, and can chip in offensively once in a while. My brother and I, when at boring family functions, will sometimes set a salary cap and draft our own team of current NHL-ers. Chimera is always a pick for me.

I forgot to mention Laich. I like him as well. :thumbsup

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Probably the saddest and most frustrating thing about the whole Ovechkin ordeal to me is that he seems completely okay with the way things are

He's got his mega contract in the NHL, his bombshell tennis star girlfriend, his Russian bros and buds on the team, and he's got the seemingly undying support of management

And of course the kicker, he's always got the KHL in his back pocket. He could just leave, and he's a fucking rock star in Russia.

I don't believe he really gives any shits about winning a Cup or having actual real success in the NHL. He's already gone down as one of the most prolific scorers of the last 20 years, and I don't think he needs any validation from NHL playoff success.

That really sucks since I'm in it for the hockey

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

That was awesome. Enough Ovie talk. On to playoff hockey.

I love this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hCOinbvEsuU

And these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx33IT4xjaM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cM1n4BhJ9zE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zD8tpV3CxU

And my favorite non Hawk ones:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSd8CqBEbcY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_akrdMYdG4

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Lol I think a lot of you guys have things a bit....backwards.

Yes Ovechkin is not nearly the player that, say, Stamkos/Crosby/Toews/Bergeron are. But he is still a great scorer. Negative impact? THat my friend is laughable when 1/4 of your goals are scored by 1 guy.

Washington loses Ovechkin they go from a borderline team to bottom dwellers.

You are WAY overrating Brouwer (who should not see top-6 minutes on good teams) and Chimera (old).

Backstrom is that team's only other great forward, no wonder they missed the playoffs.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Jesus. You sound the guys that comment on Caps Facebook pages.

Ovechkin is a cancer. His work ethic and attitude disqualify him from being an effective captain. Great scorer? Maybe, on the power play definitely, but when get 0 goals in March while you're team is on the wrong side of the playoff bubble, how great can you really be?

I watched the Caps play 82 times this season, I know a thing or two about their depth. Chimera may be older but he's still one of the best skaters in the whole league. Brouwer is very effective when played correctly. When he wasn't paired with Laich anymore (who, for the record, I believe is very overvalued) his game went for bad to pretty good. He scored like 15 goals in the final 30 games.

They missed the playoffs because they don't play defense, and their scoring wasn't deep enough to get them in this year

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Yeah wtf? Caps aren't in the playoffs. Tonight on the NHL Network is the WC preview so lets stick to that.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

:lol sorry man

I don't even think I was the one that brought them up today

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

No it was the stupid Avs fan. lol And I don't really care, but to quote Ron Burgundy, " Boy, that escalated quickly."

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

:lol no it was my fault.

I floated an Ovie to the Panthers rumor this morning and shit hit the fan.

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

Yep, a 1/4 of their goals are scored by one guy... who does nothing else and is content filling one role and throwing teammates under the bus.

How did I overrate Brouwer? By saying, and I quote, that he was a "good, gritty forward"? I never said he should play top-6 minutes. Not every player has to score 30 goals to be good. Brouwer and Chimera are fantastic 3rd line type players, who are essential to a successful team. That's what I'm pointing out.

Like Chris said, enough Ovechkin. Kudos to Barbogast for being a good sport and for providing a unique, un-Brohan perspective for us all :thumbsup

Re: The NHL 2013-14 Thread
 

:lol :lol