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-   -   The NHL Thread (https://www.antsmarching.org/forum/showthread.php?t=324692)

hailtopitt 04-20-2016 08:08 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeyondKnight (Post 16380666)
I think it would be extremely interesting that the punishment for using a slur towards a player would be the same as taking a player dangerously into the boards and nearly breaking his neck. Those don't seem to be equal offenses to me...

yea but the slur looks TERRIBLE for the league and it's public perception so they can't take it lightly

like Brooks Orpik said...if you can play, you can play

cpxc. 04-20-2016 08:10 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
no hearing for letang

phew

SirBobalew 04-20-2016 08:11 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeyondKnight (Post 16380666)
I think it would be extremely interesting that the punishment for using a slur towards a player would be the same as taking a player dangerously into the boards and nearly breaking his neck. Those don't seem to be equal offenses to me...

I agree. As I've said, I wish the suspension for the bad hit was more, but the league has shown a hesitance to suspend for more than one game in the postseason. That's the precedent they've set for themselves, and for some stupid reason they see no need to change it.

This is now 7 years old, and it's still true (see the playoff version) http://www.downgoesbrown.com/2009/11...spensions.html

YouNeverKnow25 04-20-2016 08:12 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
guy flips double birds at an official (maybe on more than one occasion, wasn't clear on that). guy says "fuck you, _______________. fuck you" directly to an official twice; once on ice and once in penalty box.

guy deserves a penalty no matter what you fill in the blank with. this isn't nam, smokey. there are rules. you can't lose it an official like that

are the officials unionized?

edit: by penalty I mean fine or suspension after the fact; obviously he was penalized in the game itself.

Lcsulla 04-20-2016 08:15 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeyondKnight (Post 16380666)
I think it would be extremely interesting that the punishment for using a slur towards a player would be the same as taking a player dangerously into the boards and nearly breaking his neck. Those don't seem to be equal offenses to me...

Yeah, seems a tad odd to me as well. No one even knows what Shaw said anyhow, hell I doubt he even recalls what he said in the heat of the moment or who it was directed at. Still, bad for the league if he did indeed make some sort of a slur but not sure how that compares to almost breaking someone's neck.

YouNeverKnow25 04-20-2016 08:16 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16380688)
No one even knows what Shaw said anyhow

:lol :lol :lol

hailtopitt 04-20-2016 08:17 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16380688)
No one even knows what Shaw said anyhow, hell I doubt he even recalls what he said in the heat of the moment or who it was directed at.

:lol:lol you can't be serious

fonzz41 04-20-2016 08:23 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeyondKnight (Post 16380666)
I think it would be extremely interesting that the punishment for using a slur towards a player would be the same as taking a player dangerously into the boards and nearly breaking his neck. Those don't seem to be equal offenses to me...

One thing I can see happening is Shaw issuing an apology before the league gets involved, hoping that they'll see that as sufficient and not dole out any further discipline.

I can also see the league going the route of a fine rather than a suspension.

Lcsulla 04-20-2016 08:29 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16380685)
guy flips double birds at an official (maybe on more than one occasion, wasn't clear on that). guy says "fuck you, _______________. fuck you" directly to an official twice; once on ice and once in penalty box.

guy deserves a penalty no matter what you fill in the blank with. this isn't nam, smokey. there are rules. you can't lose it an official like that

are the officials unionized?

edit: by penalty I mean fine or suspension after the fact; obviously he was penalized in the game itself.

Guys who take stupid penalties often flip off or cuss out the officials in a situation like that. Shaw is more hotheaded than most guys but we have all seen it from other players.

No idea on the unionization of refs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16380690)
:lol :lol :lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16380691)
:lol:lol you can't be serious

I am serious, I have not seen a video replay and the only mention I have now seen is on ESPN where the headline is "Andrew Shaw appears to use gay slur; rights group contacting NHL." Appearing to do something is quite different than being caught red handed so to speak. Not defending him if he did make a slur like that but in the absence of conclusive evidence I do not believe it will be acted on.

Are there microphones in the box? If not it is a he said she said type thing and I doubt the league will step in.

YouNeverKnow25 04-20-2016 08:30 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
you not having seen the conclusive evidence =/= a lack of conclusive evidence

YouNeverKnow25 04-20-2016 08:32 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
https://twitter.com/myregularface/st...783104/photo/1

https://twitter.com/myregularface/st...762816/photo/1

salrx95 04-20-2016 08:32 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16380703)
One thing I can see happening is Shaw issuing an apology before the league gets involved, hoping that they'll see that as sufficient and not dole out any further discipline.

I can also see the league going the route of a fine rather than a suspension.

An apology no one will believe since he already said he had no idea what he said which the majority believe is a lie. He knows what he said and played it off as such. NHL will have p.r. Nightmare if he doesn't get a game.

hailtopitt 04-20-2016 08:34 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16380724)
I am serious, I have not seen a video replay

stopped reading after this

salrx95 04-20-2016 08:39 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16380738)
stopped reading after this

Definitely avoiding the proof of how his guy is a fool and going to get suspended and hurt his team in a win or go home scenario

~Crashintome89~ 04-20-2016 08:46 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
:lol :lol :lol :lol

This is so fun.

Lcsulla 04-20-2016 08:49 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16380731)
you not having seen the conclusive evidence =/= a lack of conclusive evidence

Agreed.

Without audio it is tough to tell what he said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salrx95 (Post 16380736)
An apology no one will believe since he already said he had no idea what he said which the majority believe is a lie. He knows what he said and played it off as such. NHL will have p.r. Nightmare if he doesn't get a game.

Agreed on all counts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16380738)
stopped reading after this

Now I have seen them but the lack of audio makes it tough to know what he said. You can't suspend or fine a player for what you think they said, you need to be certain. Plus, if they cannot produce proof of what he said the players association will go nuts if the league fines or suspends him.

I know how it feels to be sent to the box after taking a stupid penalty in an awful situation. I have been there and remember skating to the box and yelling "c-sucking, m-fucking, son of a bitch bastards, etc, etc." If all honesty I was not bitching at the refs or other players, I was yelling because I was pissed at myself.

aeroshady 04-20-2016 08:50 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
There is no doubt he should and probably will get at least a game. If he doesn't, as mentioned, the PR will be awful.

I also want to feel bad for him, but I played hockey for years and never used that kind of term on the ice. So no, he and everyone else should be better.

hailtopitt 04-20-2016 08:52 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16380782)
Without audio it is tough to tell what he said.

Now I have seen them but the lack of audio makes it tough to know what he said. You can't suspend or fine a player for what you think they said, you need to be certain. Plus, if they cannot produce proof of what he said the players association will go nuts if the league fines or suspends him.

I know how it feels to be sent to the box after taking a stupid penalty in an awful situation. I have been there and remember skating to the box and yelling "c-sucking, m-fucking, son of a bitch bastards, etc, etc." If all honesty I was not bitching at the refs or other players, I was yelling because I was pissed at myself.

sorry dude but you're being an extreme homer right now

NHL absolutely has to take action because we all know what he said, audio or not

YouNeverKnow25 04-20-2016 08:54 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
this is 2016. there is a 0.0% chance that no audio exists of that. this was the highest profile moment in the game and he had just drawn the attention of every person in the building by throwing a toddler's temper tantrum. it's just a matter of when it comes out, not if.

~Crashintome89~ 04-20-2016 08:56 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
it's most likely a given that the officials heard him utter the word as well.

Lcsulla 04-20-2016 09:01 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by hailtopitt (Post 16380794)
sorry dude but you're being an extreme homer right now

NHL absolutely has to take action because we all know what he said, audio or not

Yeah, I am being a bit of a homer. That said I am pissed at Shaw for taking such a dumb penalty at that point in the game. As for what he said - I can not read lips nor do I believe the NHL employs lip readers either.

Having stated that, if he did make a slur as assumed he definitely deserves a suspension and/or fine.

lockman21 04-20-2016 09:03 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Climb2safety (Post 16380374)
This article suggests differently -

"If he did use a homophobic slur, the NHL has to act on that, and "emotions were high" is simply not an excuse for that kind of behavior.

The You Can Play Project, an organization "that is dedicated to ensuring equality, respect and safety for all athletes, without regard to sexual orientation and/or gender identity," and an organization teamed up with the Blackhawks on a partnership just two weeks ago, has already said that it will be reaching out to the NHL to "immediately assist in an appropriate response."

A slur on its own would be worthy of a suspension from the league.

If you're looking for some sort of precedent here, former enforcer Krys Barch was suspended one game for making a racist joke directed at Montreal Canadiens defenseman P.K. Subban, while James Wisniewski was once suspended two games for making an obscene gesture directed at Sean Avery.

When you add in the fact he flipped off the referees two different times (with both hands!) and was simply out of control it only adds to the ridiculousness of the entire display. Together, it should all be enough to at least keep him out of the next game of the series. If not more."

Quote:

Originally Posted by salrx95 (Post 16380473)
I'd be surprised if he isn't suspended a game. It's all over this morning. In this day and age, you have to be so dumb to be using that word in public.

So, just catching up to everything. I didn't see him flipping off the refs.

Anyone remember this?

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/bal...urn=nba,wp1277

Huge fine, but no suspension. EVERYONE was calling for one for Kobe, too. I just don't see how there's a precedent for suspending someone for a playoff game for lip reading. It would have to go along with the flipping off of the official as well.

I'm not saying what happened was defendable or right, I'm just saying the NHLPA would lose their collective minds over a suspension from reading lips. They'd have to tie the whole thing together, which, now that I'm viewing everything, I'm starting to think they might. Just an embarrassing scene all around.

Lcsulla 04-20-2016 09:09 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 (Post 16380801)
this is 2016. there is a 0.0% chance that no audio exists of that. this was the highest profile moment in the game and he had just drawn the attention of every person in the building by throwing a toddler's temper tantrum. it's just a matter of when it comes out, not if.

Yeah, I would think they have both the benches and the penalty boxes wired up for audio. The thing that makes it look worse for Shaw is that while he was yelling in the box he is also smacking the glass with his stick leading me to believe he was saying something he did not want picked up on audio. Stupid thing to do all around beginning with taking such a dumb penalty in the first place and then compounding it. We all know he is a hot headed moron but this one takes the cake.

Dramageek 04-20-2016 09:10 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16380782)
Agreed.



Without audio it is tough to tell what he said.



Agreed on all counts.



Now I have seen them but the lack of audio makes it tough to know what he said. You can't suspend or fine a player for what you think they said, you need to be certain. Plus, if they cannot produce proof of what he said the players association will go nuts if the league fines or suspends him.

I know how it feels to be sent to the box after taking a stupid penalty in an awful situation. I have been there and remember skating to the box and yelling "c-sucking, m-fucking, son of a bitch bastards, etc, etc." If all honesty I was not bitching at the refs or other players, I was yelling because I was pissed at myself.

I agree your homer goggles are a little too foggy here. You don't have to be an expert lip reader to determine what he said. It doesn't matter if he doesn't remember it or there's no audio, the video evidence is still fairly clear.

Everybody expects foul language like the bold to be thrown around during an intense playoff game. But Shaw went beyond that.

And this isn't a beer league or a local rec league. This is the playoffs for the multi-billion dollar professional league that broadcasts games on national television and has a public image to uphold. Racial, ethnic and homosexual slurs should not be permitted not only because they're stupid and offensive, but, as said above, it causes a p.r. nightmare for the league. If they're playing the Flyers, and he called Simmonds the n-word, he should be suspended or otherwise disciplined. No difference here.

I really have nothing against the Blackhawks. They're a great team and I enjoy watching them. But Shaw has to be smarter at the end of that game on all counts. And if it was one of the Pens caught on camera saying something like that, I'd be saying the same thing and calling for discipline.

^^ I agree that the NHLPA would lose their collective minds, but that shit can't be tolerated.

lockman21 04-20-2016 09:12 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by fonzz41 (Post 16380703)
I can also see the league going the route of a fine rather than a suspension.

I was thinking that before I watched the whole thing. It was one thing to see it in the moment at the bar last night, but now that I'm rewatching it...I don't know. It goes beyond just the homophobic part, mostly flipping off the refs.

What happens will be VERY interesting. The CBA has a limit on how much you can fine a player, so the public outrage would be inevitable (not that it really matters).

Lcsulla 04-20-2016 09:22 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 16380861)
I agree your homer goggles are a little too foggy here. You don't have to be an expert lip reader to determine what he said. It doesn't matter if he doesn't remember it or there's no audio, the video evidence is still fairly clear.

Everybody expects foul language like the bold to be thrown around during an intense playoff game. But Shaw went beyond that.

And this isn't a beer league or a local rec league. This is the playoffs for the multi-billion dollar professional league that broadcasts games on national television and has a public image to uphold. Racial, ethnic and homosexual slurs should not be permitted not only because they're stupid and offensive, but, as said above, it causes a p.r. nightmare for the league. If they're playing the Flyers, and he called Simmonds the n-word, he should be suspended or otherwise disciplined. No difference here.

I really have nothing against the Blackhawks. They're a great team and I enjoy watching them. But Shaw has to be smarter at the end of that game on all counts. And if it was one of the Pens caught on camera saying something like that, I'd be saying the same thing and calling for discipline.

^^ I agree that the NHLPA would lose their collective minds, but that shit can't be tolerated.

I cannot disagree with any of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lockman21 (Post 16380865)
What happens will be VERY interesting. The CBA has a limit on how much you can fine a player, so the public outrage would be inevitable (not that it really matters).

I think (unless more conclusive evidence shows up) this is going to end up being 'tried' in the court of pubic opinion and the professionally offended brigade are going to lose their collective minds screaming for a fine and suspension while the PA will be doing the opposite. Worst part for me is taking such a stupid penalty in the first place considering he had been one of the Hawks most effective offensive guys all game.

unccrombie 04-20-2016 09:28 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dramageek (Post 16380861)
I agree your homer goggles are a little too foggy here. You don't have to be an expert lip reader to determine what he said. It doesn't matter if he doesn't remember it or there's no audio, the video evidence is still fairly clear.

Everybody expects foul language like the bold to be thrown around during an intense playoff game. But Shaw went beyond that.

And this isn't a beer league or a local rec league. This is the playoffs for the multi-billion dollar professional league that broadcasts games on national television and has a public image to uphold. Racial, ethnic and homosexual slurs should not be permitted not only because they're stupid and offensive, but, as said above, it causes a p.r. nightmare for the league. If they're playing the Flyers, and he called Simmonds the n-word, he should be suspended or otherwise disciplined. No difference here.

I really have nothing against the Blackhawks. They're a great team and I enjoy watching them. But Shaw has to be smarter at the end of that game on all counts. And if it was one of the Pens caught on camera saying something like that, I'd be saying the same thing and calling for discipline.

^^ I agree that the NHLPA would lose their collective minds, but that shit can't be tolerated.

:thumbsup

jrkarger 04-20-2016 09:28 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeyondKnight (Post 16380666)
I think it would be extremely interesting that the punishment for using a slur towards a player would be the same as taking a player dangerously into the boards and nearly breaking his neck. Those don't seem to be equal offenses to me...

If he gets a game then IMO that's more of an indictment of the lax penalty for the hit on Orlov than on any punishment for Shaw.

The league should come down hard on these guys to send a message, because like Dramageek said, it's not a beer league or rec league, or shouldn't be a #GarageLeague.

They should but probably won't.

Lcsulla 04-20-2016 09:32 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jrkarger (Post 16380912)
If he gets a game then IMO that's more of an indictment of the lax penalty for the hit on Orlov than on any punishment for Shaw.

The league should come down hard on these guys to send a message, because like Dramageek said, it's not a beer league or rec league, or shouldn't be a #GarageLeague.

They should but probably won't.

Yup, if he did make some sort of homosexual slur I have no issue with a fine and suspension at all. I know he was pissed for taking a stupid penalty when Chicago was generating a lot of offense but that is absolutely no excuse for slurs and I hope the NHL responds accordingly.

Dramageek 04-20-2016 09:38 AM

Re: The NHL Thread
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Lcsulla (Post 16380922)
Yup, if he did make some sort of homosexual slur I have no issue with a fine and suspension at all. I know he was pissed for taking a stupid penalty when Chicago was generating a lot of offense but that is absolutely no excuse for slurs and I hope the NHL responds accordingly.

:thumbsup I'm sure he was pissed at the whole situation, but like I said, he just needs to be smarter there.


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