Net Neutrality

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by rconverse

You could say that about airline travel and about 1,000 other things. Cars comes to mind as well. Laptops/computers...What good is the Internet if you can't afford a computer.

The issue that I have with the government taking it over is socializing it, like other utilities.

What is the problem with the government socializing utilities? Those are the very things that government is supposed to socialize because it protects the people that the government is tasked with protecting. You don't like your government regulated electricity prices that keep them affordable? You don't like your clean drinking water?

Why would you, as a consumer, be in favor of private businesses being able to regulate the internet as they see fit? They would be able to screw over your connection speeds, control which sites you can visit easily, and manipulate the costs you pay to use the things that happen over the internet. What is the benefit to you for that?

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Benny003

Communication is protected as a utility because how people communicate has huge implications to how business is conducted and how people's lives are saved (911). The internet is the modern way that people use to communicate in a variety of forms. It needs to be protected by the government from private interests and manipulation.

You have too much faith in the government. Most people took on HC cost increases thanks to the government. Government is not the answer here.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by Arby

If their costs went up because they had to pay service providers, do you think they would eat the cost or pass it on to the consumer?

Of course they would pass it onto consumers, but that means they would also probably lose customers. The content creator's costs of doing business, like the cost to deliver their content, would also be hugely left up to the whims of the ISP's. The ISP's would hold all of the power, not consumers.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Benny003

What is the problem with the government socializing utilities? Those are the very things that government is supposed to socialize because it protects the people that the government is tasked with protecting. You don't like your government regulated electricity prices that keep them affordable? You don't like your clean drinking water?

Why would you, as a consumer, be in favor of private businesses being able to regulate the internet as they see fit? They would be able to screw over your connection speeds, control which sites you can visit easily, and manipulate the costs you pay to use the things that happen over the internet. What is the benefit to you for that?

Why should there be any businesses ever? They just screw everyone over adding no value.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by rconverse

You have too much faith in the government. Most people took on HC cost increases thanks to the government. Government is not the answer here.

Literally, the only reason anybody could possibly be against net neutrality is if they work for an ISP.

I don't want to get into a health care debate, but millions of people who didn't have health care coverage before now have it because it was made more affordable for a lot of people while becoming more expensive to other people who could more or less afford the increase in cost. That's what government is supposed to do when it comes to "necessities" in life because they are the only ones with the power to do things like that.

[Jake]

The one thing that is remarkably clear to me is that if net neutrality passes ALL internet will become more expensive.


History tells me that.

[rconverse]

Just asking the question "why wouldn't you want a government to socialize.." is beyond crazy to me. Here's a question...Do you like paying $50 for something when everyone else is paying $20? Then multiply that times everything. Gee...I wonder why I wouldn't like that.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Why should there be any businesses ever? They just screw everyone over adding no value.

Businesses provide the services, as they should, but that doesn't mean they should have free reign over how the industries they work within operate. Consumers need to be protected and the government is the only ones who can do that. I'm not saying businesses are bad. What I am saying though is that businesses put themselves first, not the general public. The government is supposed to put the people first. That's how it's supposed to work anyway.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by Jake

The one thing that is remarkably clear to me is that if net neutrality passes ALL internet will become more expensive.


History tells me that.

How do you figure?


In the long run, hopefully this leads to more competition. Cities starting their own broadband service to keep the big names in check.


You're not still paying for long distance calling and roaming are you? Caller ID?

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Benny003

Literally, the only reason anybody could possibly be against net neutrality is if they work for an ISP.

Idon't want to get into a health care debate, but millions of people who didn't have health care coverage before now have it because it was made more affordable for a lot of people while becoming more expensive to other people who could more or less afford the increase in cost. That's what government is supposed to do when it comes to "necessities" in life because they are the only ones with the power to do things like that.

Your arrogance about what others can afford literally makes me want to kick your teeth in. That's like KO type arrogance. For the life of me, I'll never understand how others are able to decide what people they don't know can or cannot afford and how much better they are at spending others' money.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by Jake

The one thing that is remarkably clear to me is that if net neutrality passes ALL internet will become more expensive.


History tells me that.

TV and internet is pretty damn expensive today but I agree, this opens up a lot of things to taxes and in cases where there are so few providers any costs get completely passed to end users.

Broadband as it stands today is a cartel.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by Jake

The one thing that is remarkably clear to me is that if net neutrality passes ALL internet will become more expensive.


History tells me that.

You realize that since the internet was invented that it's been operating under the rules of net neutrality, right? Up until the FCC was ruled against a year ago or so, everyone was operating under net neutrality. Once the FCC was ruled against, then it opened the market up to being less regulated. All the FCC is really trying to do now is go back to the way it was about a year ago. So no, costs will not be going up. It will be business as usual as it was from about 1994 to early 2014.

Originally Posted by rconverse

Just asking the question "why wouldn't you want a government to socialize.." is beyond crazy to me. Here's a question...Do you like paying $50 for something when everyone else is paying $20? Then multiply that times everything. Gee...I wonder why I wouldn't like that.

Because some people paying more means other poorer people are able to afford it all. We all prosper. Keep in mind, I'm only talking about necessities. We can debate what is a necessity and what isn't, but that's another discussion.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Benny003

Businesses provide the services, as they should, but that doesn't mean they should have free reign over how the industries they work within operate. Consumers need to be protected and the government is the only ones who can do that. I'm not saying businesses are bad. What I am saying though is that businesses put themselves first, not the general public. The government is supposed to put the people first. That's how it's supposed to work anyway.

Oh, I see. That makes me feel muich better as I was starting to melt. It doesn't matter how it's supposed to work. I kind of forget that you're farleft and believe in unicorns.

[AJF_41]

Benny killing it in here.

Edit: #yikes - hopefully he's wearing a mouth guard!

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Benny003

Because some people paying more means other poorer people are able to afford it all. We all prosper. Keep in mind, I'm only talking about necessities. We can debate what is a necessity and what isn't, but that's another discussion.

The Internet is no more necessary than a TV or a mobile phone. They are 100% conveniences. Heck an ATM card is just a convenience as well. There's really no need for government to be involved in conveniences.

[scrock25]

Originally Posted by rconverse

The Internet is no more necessary than a TV or a mobile phone. They are 100% conveniences. Heck an ATM card is just a convenience as well. There's really no need for government to be involved in conveniences.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Your arrogance about what others can afford literally makes me want to kick your teeth in. That's like KO type arrogance. For the life of me, I'll never understand how others are able to decide what people they don't know can or cannot afford and how much better they are at spending others' money.

That's what taxes are. People who have more, pay more. People who have less, pay less. It gives people who have less advantages a better opportunity to prosper. With no government regulation, what you get is the middle ages and a ruling class and a slave class essentially. Again, don't take my comments out of context or hyperbolize them. There needs to be a balance between regulation and free market. It shouldn't be one or the other. Net neutrality isn't even onerous really. It just says that ISP's need to treat all data the same. It's not telling them how to operate their companies.

[rconverse]

I'm racking my brain and I cannot think of 1 decent reason why people need to absolutely have Internet access in their homes. Be honest, if you're for net neutrality it's because you want it. It has nothing to do with it being a necessity. There's nothing on the Internet that you have to be able to access 24/7.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by rconverse

The Internet is no more necessary than a TV or a mobile phone. They are 100% conveniences. Heck an ATM card is just a convenience as well. There's really no need for government to be involved in conveniences.

We're not talking to individual people. We're talking about the American economy as a whole. Access to the internet is absolutely critical in order for the economy to prosper.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by rconverse

I'm racking my brain and I cannot think of 1 decent reason why people need to absolutely have Internet access in their homes. Be honest, if you're for net neutrality it's because you want it. It has nothing to do with it being a necessity. There's nothing on the Internet that you have to be able to access 24/7.

It's not a necessity to individual people, but it is a necessity to the health of our economy. The government's role is to do what it can to promote the health of the economy.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Benny003

That's what taxes are. People who have more, pay more. People who have less, pay less. It gives people who have less advantages a better opportunity to prosper. With no government regulation, what you get is the middle ages and a ruling class and a slave class essentially. Again, don't take my comments out of context or hyperbolize them. There needs to be a balance between regulation and free market. It shouldn't be one or the other. Net neutrality isn't even onerous really. It just says that ISP's need to treat all data the same. It's not telling them how to operate their companies.

I don't want everything taxed. That's my point. When I go to the movies for entertainment, I pay the same as you. The Internet should be the same as it's not a necessity and, at home, generally used for entertainment.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by rconverse

I don't want everything taxed. That's my point. When I go to the movies for entertainment, I pay the same as you. The Internet should be the same as it's not a necessity and, at home, generally used for entertainment.

Id rather be taxed than raped an pillaged by whatever arbitrary price Comcast decides to bill be for the month

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by rconverse

The Internet is no more necessary than a TV or a mobile phone. They are 100% conveniences. Heck an ATM card is just a convenience as well. There's really no need for government to be involved in conveniences.

My doctor sent me an email when my test results were ready. I logged in to his site to see them and his message to me.

We all want cheaper healthcare. Without the internet he has to pay someone to call me and I would pay more for his services.

If we want cheaper healthcare and many other things it actually is necessary.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Benny003

It's not a necessity to individual people, but it is a necessity to the health of our economy. The government's role is to do what it can to promote the health of the economy.

The government would not be protecting the economy.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

My doctor sent me an email when my test results were ready. I logged in to his site to see them and his message to me.

We all want cheaper healthcare. Without the internet he has to pay someone to call me and I would pay more for his services.

If we want cheaper healthcare and many other things it actually is necessary.

Those are all conveniences. It's like people are so spoiled they don't even know the difference bewteen the two.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by Arby

Id rather be taxed than raped an pillaged by whatever arbitrary price Comcast decides to bill be for the month

Me to. I trust the government more than the bastardized form of "free market" capitalism we've created.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Arby

How do you figure?


In the long run, hopefully this leads to more competition. Cities starting their own broadband service to keep the big names in check.


You're not still paying for long distance calling and roaming are you? Caller ID?

The government regulated health care & it got more expensive.

The government made it illegal for cc companies to raise rates past a certain pt so they raised ALL the rates.


Obviously if the government throttles internet providers they will increase rates

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Arby

Id rather be taxed than raped an pillaged by whatever arbitrary price Comcast decides to bill be for the month

That's how every business works everywhere on the planet. You pay for the services that are provided or don't take advantage of the service.

The real issue is the lack of competition. Generally speaking, people are already slaves to Comcast or Time Warner.

No one is calling for this on cell phone plans and look how the prices are dropping for plans. Some providers have rollover data now that was previously not available.

Honestly, a lot of you view this like it's the boogey man.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Me to. I trust the government more than the bastardized form of "free market" capitalism we've created.

Are you saying that we exist in a free market or not?

[Speilmen230]

Originally Posted by Arby

Id rather be taxed than raped an pillaged by whatever arbitrary price Comcast decides to bill be for the month

The arbitrary price is the thing that baffles me the most about cable and internet service. They can just charge whatever they see fit once all of the infrastructure is in place. It is a service that is based totally on whatever the provider feels is an acceptable rate. It isn't based on making a product and the cost that goes into it.

Case and point being, call up your cable company and tell them you are switching to Direct TV, dish, or FiOS. They will roll out the red carpet for you and start slashing your bill left and right. It is all a game. There is no base price for the service it is whatever they think they can get for it.