*Prompter Thread* (NO personal attacks, NO trolling)

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by Rodey

Personal attacks are not allowed.

Don't be the guy with no sense of humor

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by Route_2

You keep saying "our money" like we're a bunch of millionaires in here. The biggest revenue raiser in Obamacare was the net investment income tax, which is an additional 3.8% surtax on interest, dividend, rent, royalty and passive business income of high-income taxpayers, those earning more than $250,000. It was a transfer payment from the wealthy to people who earned too little to afford insurance pre-Obamacare.

Trump/Ryan-care's main goal is to provide a multi-billion dollar tax cut to the wealthy by unwinding this transfer. Instead, they are gutting Medicaid and providing tax credits tied to age that won't peg to rises in premiums.

It's a backdoor tax cuts and they're doing it before the tax reform they've promised so that Ryan can use the new lower taxes as the baseline for further tax cuts.

Completely agree, good post.

[justink]

It'd be nice if healthcare could be bought like auto insurance (levels and providers cheaply).

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Rodey

Personal attacks are not allowed.

Wasnt a personal attack. You asked for a smartass reply with your rolleyes emoji. Relax.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by justink

It'd be nice if healthcare could be bought like auto insurance (levels and providers cheaply).

The cost structure of payments is on a completely different scale.

And you know what, if everyone was guaranteed to get in an extremely costly accident when they get older (Aka end of life illnesses) maybe they'd be more similar.

[cazzie34]

Originally Posted by justink

It'd be nice if healthcare could be bought like auto insurance (levels and providers cheaply).

It'd be nice if apples were like oranges.

[DMBstandUP1984]

I use my health insurance way more then I do car insurance. Maybe I'll drop that and keep my fingers crossed.

[justink]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

The cost structure of payments is on a completely different scale.

And you know what, if everyone was guaranteed to get in an extremely costly accident when they get older (Aka end of life illnesses) maybe they'd be more similar.

You know what, as a 16 year old male, I paid a much higher auto price. Because of your example.

There's no reason it can't be.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Route_2

You keep saying "our money" like we're a bunch of millionaires in here. The biggest revenue raiser in Obamacare was the net investment income tax, which is an additional 3.8% surtax on interest, dividend, rent, royalty and passive business income of high-income taxpayers, those earning more than $250,000. It was a transfer payment from the wealthy to people who earned too little to afford insurance pre-Obamacare.

Trump/Ryan-care's main goal is to provide a multi-billion dollar tax cut to the wealthy by unwinding this transfer. Instead, they are gutting Medicaid and providing tax credits tied to age that won't peg to rises in premiums.

It's a backdoor tax cut and they're doing it before the tax reform they've promised so that Ryan can use the new lower tax rates as the baseline for further tax cuts.

Oh, you mean those type investments that rich people move off shore so the actual costs fall on the MC?

I don't know how else to say it. The ACA was the largest tax increase on the MC ever. They went to court to literally prove this.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by cazzie34

It'd be nice if apples were like oranges.

He's not wrong.

I don't want to be in the same pool as fat peopel because it's well known they're going To cost a ton. I also don't want to be in a car insurance pool that includes Asian females.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by justink

You know what, as a 16 year old male, I paid a much higher auto price. Because of your example.

There's no reason it can't be.

Exactly. My past car insurance was through the roof. Now that I don't drive like an asshole, it's reasonable.

[cazzie34]

Old people pay more for their health insurance. Not sure if people know that....

[Rodey]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Wasnt a personal attack. You asked for a smartass reply with your rolleyes emoji. Relax.

Still waiting to hear how Obama stole from the middle class...

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by rconverse

He's not wrong.

I don't want to be in the same pool as fat peopel because it's well known they're going To cost a ton. I also don't want to be in a car insurance pool that includes Asian females.

Let's move to what your solution is then. Let's all stipulate there is no business model to insure solely sick and unhealthy people and break even financially. Because there is not.

So what should we do?

1. Subsidize their insurance
2. Just pay for their healthcare outright
3. Turn them away at the hospital and send them home to die

[Route_2]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Oh, you mean those type investments that rich people move off shore so the actual costs fall on the MC?

Nope, it's getting paid. I work in this industry. I see it every day.

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by rconverse

He's not wrong.

I don't want to be in the same pool as fat peopel because it's well known they're going To cost a ton. I also don't want to be in a car insurance pool that includes Asian females.

Let's say we do this. Ok, how about people who have a familial history of heart disease? Or any negative trait potentially passed on genetically? Can't have them because, well, you know...

This is why preexisting conditions are a thing. Insurance company lawyers can probably argue their way out of everything.

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by Rodey

Still waiting to hear how Obama stole from the middle class...

According to his comment paired with the article he posted, Obama personally advised the middle class to invest half their wealth in homes, and then he single-handedly destroyed the housing market. I assume whilst cackling all the way to the bank.

[DMBstandUP1984]

Originally Posted by zajDmB1

According to his comment paired with the article he posted, Obama personally advised the middle class to invest half their wealth in homes, and then he single-handedly destroyed the housing market. I assume whilst cackling all the way to the bank.

And doing tapps

[justink]

Originally Posted by rconverse

He's not wrong.

I don't want to be in the same pool as fat peopel because it's well known they're going To cost a ton. I also don't want to be in a car insurance pool that includes Asian females.

Typical Cazzie. Posting before thinking things through.

[cazzie34]

Originally Posted by justink

Typical Cazzie. Posting before thinking things through.

Let's think this through.

If there were a non-pre existing insurance everyone who didn't have pre existing would buy that and those would be real cheap rates!

then there would be everyone else who couldn't buy that insurance. They'd be left with the plan offered by the insurance companies for everyone with pre-existing. Those would be super expensive. Let's say 50% of the people can afford that plan (they can't). Then either the government subsidizes that or those people go without insurance.

Now let's say there are different levels of pre-existing. So that little things don't raise your rates as much. Well guess what, the person that had cancer won't be able to afford the super expensive plan.

Know why? because health care costs a shit ton more than car costs and personal injury claims and everyone needs health care. Not everyone needs car insurance because you might not own a car.

Typical Justink doing a false comparison.

[zajDmB1]

I don't have insurance so when I bump into people on the sidewalk I run away yelling "sorry, sucker!!"


JK. I have insurance. Thanks Obama!

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Route_2

Nope, it's getting paid. I work in this industry. I see it every day.

You're right. There wasn't just a HUGE article about this last year. And, rich people hire accountants so they can pay more in taxes. I should know because I'm in the "industry."

Originally Posted by zajDmB1

Let's say we do this. Ok, how about people who have a familial history of heart disease? Or any negative trait potentially passed on genetically? Can't have them because, well, you know...

This is why preexisting conditions are a thing. Insurance company lawyers can probably argue their way out of everything.

Those people don't have pre-existing conditions. They just have familial traits. As long as they're not smokers, drug addicts, or obese, then what's the problem?

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by cazzie34

Let's think this through.

If there were a non-pre existing insurance everyone who didn't have pre existing would buy that and those would be real cheap rates!

then there would be everyone else who couldn't buy that insurance. They'd be left with the plan offered by the insurance companies for everyone with pre-existing. Those would be super expensive. Let's say 50% of the people can afford that plan (they can't). Then either the government subsidizes that or those people go without insurance.

Now let's say there are different levels of pre-existing. So that little things don't raise your rates as much. Well guess what, the person that had cancer won't be able to afford the super expensive plan.

Know why? because health care costs a shit ton more than car costs and personal injury claims and everyone needs health care. Not everyone needs car insurance because you might not own a car.

Typical Justink doing a false comparison.

Everyone may need healthcare but not everyone needs health insurance. You're creating a reality that doesn't exist in order to make your argument make sense.

As I've stated. With the way the ACA is setup, I don't need insurance. All of my HC costs come out of pocket regardless. The money I"m paying to the insurance company is literally free money to the insurance companies that Obama made sure got paid off

My "insurance" is essentially worthless.

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by rconverse

He's not wrong.

I don't want to be in the same pool as fat peopel because it's well known they're going To cost a ton. I also don't want to be in a car insurance pool that includes Asian females.

that's just mean

[justink]

Originally Posted by cazzie34

Let's think this through.

If there were a non-pre existing insurance everyone who didn't have pre existing would buy that and those would be real cheap rates!

then there would be everyone else who couldn't buy that insurance. They'd be left with the plan offered by the insurance companies for everyone with pre-existing. Those would be super expensive. Let's say 50% of the people can afford that plan (they can't). Then either the government subsidizes that or those people go without insurance.

Now let's say there are different levels of pre-existing. So that little things don't raise your rates as much. Well guess what, the person that had cancer won't be able to afford the super expensive plan.

Know why? because health care costs a shit ton more than car costs and personal injury claims and everyone needs health care. Not everyone needs car insurance because you might not own a car.

Typical Justink doing a false comparison.

Life IS preexisting.

Preexisting driving record (points on DL and accidents) to get insurance.

Preexisting criminal record when looking for jobs.

Preexisting credit history to buy a house.

Why shouldn't preexisting medical conditions be factored into health insurance?

[DMBstandUP1984]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1dac27e703.jpg

[cazzie34]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Everyone may need healthcare but not everyone needs health insurance. You're creating a reality that doesn't exist in order to make your argument make sense.

As I've stated. With the way the ACA is setup, I don't need insurance. All of my HC costs come out of pocket regardless. The money I"m paying to the insurance company is literally free money to the insurance companies that Obama made sure got paid off

My "insurance" is essentially worthless.

That's the point of insurance. It's not a health savings account.

Should something bad happen you get your hundreds of thousands of medical expenses covered. They are covered by people who aren't using the insurance but have it

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by rconverse

You're right. There wasn't just a HUGE article about this last year. And, rich people hire accountants so they can pay more in taxes. I should know because I'm in the "industry."


Those people don't have pre-existing conditions. They just have familial traits. As long as they're not smokers, drug addicts, or obese, then what's the problem?

Insurance co's could easily justify higher rates, as someone with heart disease running in their family is at a higher risk of heart disease than I am, because it doesn't run in my family. So why should I be in their pool? My point is really just that this is one of the many reasons healthcare is so, to quote our president, 'complicated.'

So in terms of figuring out a relatively simple plan, not letting companies deny people because of conditions is key. You can shit on other parts of Obamacare all you want, I know it was problematic. But I think as a very rich country, it's absurd to me how people still think healthcare/insurance, however you want to look at it, should be a luxury.

[DMBZeppelin]

Originally Posted by justink

Life IS preexisting.

Preexisting driving record (points on DL and accidents) to get insurance.

Preexisting criminal record when looking for jobs.

Preexisting credit history to buy a house.

Why shouldn't preexisting medical conditions be factored into health insurance?

It just depends on what you want the goal of healthcare to be, and if it's about driving profits then ABSOLUTELY we should factor that in everything.

If you read that whole bible thing and claim to be a nation built on Christian values. Then screwing over the poor and sick probably isn't the best thing to do, even if it's not the best option financially.

But regardless we're the worst at healthcare. No one spends more on it than this country, and we're no where close to the top in actual healthcare rankings. Other countries offer free healthcare and spend a lot less. We're doing something very wrong.

[TwoStep2888]

Obamacare wasn't the socialized medicine bill it should have been but it helped a lot of people and it's a shame it's being killed for something much worse