Carter Beauford vs. Jon Fishman

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by bowa36

I like to look at it this way too, especially with drummers, but with musicians in general. Everybody just speaks in a different way. There isn't an objective "better" or "best", but I do prefer Carter's drumming. As a drummer myself, he is very inspirational to me.

Originally Posted by bowa36

Didn't even see this before I posted

Music is meant to be enjoyed...

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Fishman is serviceable. He's good for what his role in the band requires. He's just not in Carter's league.

The biggest criticism I have of Carter is that he tries to do too much sometimes. There are some songs where he could back off a little and it'd be better. But that's nitpicking.

Agree with this... especially over the last few years.

[ToySoldier#34]

Carter plays too fast too often but he's still my favorite drummer, ever

[davem#36]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Fishman is serviceable. He's good for what his role in the band requires. He's just not in Carter's league.

The biggest criticism I have of Carter is that he tries to do too much sometimes. There are some songs where he could back off a little and it'd be better. But that's nitpicking.

I agree and don't think you are not picking at all. It seems he's lost the groove or "pocket" on a lot of songs most notably grey st.

[berman1125]

Fish had a really great year. Loved his drumming. Carter still wins

[Heelslm05]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Fishman is serviceable. He's good for what his role in the band requires. He's just not in Carter's league.

The biggest criticism I have of Carter is that he tries to do too much sometimes. There are some songs where he could back off a little and it'd be better. But that's nitpicking.

One that comes to mind right off the bat is Spaceman. It's impressive what he does, but almost seems a little too busy and unnecessary. Granted, it isn't the greatest DMB song ever, but ya know..

[WidespreadMule3]

Originally Posted by dancheatham

I don't think Fishman is as good as Carter, but he is very underappreciated, IMO. He does a lot of really subtle stuff that's great but easy to miss if you're not really listening.

This. Exactly what I was going to post.

[raven20]

Love me some Fish but You serious Clark?

[phillybeezler]

Carter
/thread

[Bruce]

I think the elephant in the room here Carter Vs. Fishman, in an actual fight. A bare-knuckles, anything goes, brawl-until-someone-can't-get-up street fight. I still think Carter would have his way with him. Both would attempt to use their stocky frames to leverage their weight, almost like mini sumo wrestlers. Ultimately Carter's strength would be too much for the weak Fishman, and that would spell the end for the wily jambander. But I'd also expect Fishman to resort to dirty methods such as eye poking and fire throwing, tactics on which the righteous Beauford need not rely.

[DMBzilla]

Anyone saying this is no contest has no idea what the fuck he or she is talking about. I felt the same way at one point, and while I do believe Carter is the better drummer, Fishman is outstanding at what he does, and as far as improvisation they're on pretty equal footing.

And whether or not you like Phish is completely irrelevant. I don't care if you hate Phish with every fiber of your being - Trey and Mike are better than Dave and Stefan on every level from a playing standpoint.

[RAPUNZEL13]

Marimba lumina.


/thread

[bartender_man]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

Anyone saying this is no contest has no idea what the fuck he or she is talking about. I felt the same way at one point, and while I do believe Carter is the better drummer, Fishman is outstanding at what he does, and as far as improvisation they're on pretty equal footing.

And whether or not you like Phish is completely irrelevant. I don't care if you hate Phish with every fiber of your being - Trey and Mike are better than Dave and Stefan on every level from a playing standpoint.

Except Trey and Mike are fucking boring...

[DMBzilla]

Originally Posted by bartender_man

Except Trey and Mike are fucking boring...

A DMB fan criticizing another band for being boring at this point is hysterical.

However, as you obviously missed, your opinion of Phish's music is irrelevant to the discussion. Whether you like a band or not has absolutely no bearing on their abilities as musicians.

[moosicmaniac]

Maybe Fishman can't do what Carter does, but if you put Carter behind Phish there is no way he would be able to jam as fluidly as Fishman. He'd be fucking lost.

Fishman might not be able to do rolls as fast as Carter, but he's 10x more tasteful. Being a great drummer is more than double-bass fills.

Originally Posted by jray1823

Fishman couldn't fill a Starbucks if it wasn't for Phish.

If it wasn't for Phish, I'm pretty sure Jon Fishman would have found his way into another top-tier jam band.

[bartender_man]

Originally Posted by moosicmaniac

Maybe Fishman can't do what Carter does, but if you put Carter behind Phish there is no way he would be able to jam as fluidly as Fishman. He'd be fucking lost.

Fishman might not be able to do rolls as fast as Carter, but he's 10x more tasteful. Being a great drummer is more than double-bass fills.



If it wasn't for Phish, I'm pretty sure Jon Fishman would have found his way into another top-tier jam band.

How the hell do you know he would get fucking lost?

[Useliteski]

i think both are fantastic.

sorry if thats freaks some people out.

[canes101190]

Originally Posted by DMBzilla

A DMB fan criticizing another band for being boring at this point is hysterical.

The truth in this is hysterical and depressing all at the same time.

[LetYouDown22]

Well that escalated quickly

[coolhotwaves]

Fishman can hold his own through some very complex music. Not easily done as a drummer. Carter is faster and more precise. I'd give the edge to Carter, but Fishman shouldn't be shrugged off.

[pure_guava]

I personally think Phish is the better band, but Carter wins this hands down and it isn't even close.

[s0628711]

Originally Posted by RAPUNZEL13

Marimba lumina.


/thread

Carter is the more technical drummer, but Fishman really knows his place in the music. He has somehow only gotten better too. See: Fuego

[RAPUNZEL13]

Originally Posted by canes101190

The truth in this is hysterical and depressing all at the same time.

So true.

[canes101190]

For what it's worth, Fishman played like a man possessed last night. He must've read this thread.

[gripes81]

Originally Posted by canes101190

Those saying it "isn't close" need to do more listening.

Agree with this, Carter is my personal favorite but you can't overlook fishmans talent.

[jarguitar86]

I don't think it's a dumb question at all. DMB & Phish are my 2 favorite bands as well & as many have pointed out, the playing styles of the musicians differs so much, it makes picking a little more difficult. I would say Carter is a better drummer overall, but the way Fishman's playing complements the improv styles of phish, he holds the edge there.

[KevinTH]

I am blown away by the amount of people that think it's "not even close". You are clearly the people who have never played drums before or just think Carter is the best because he's in your favorite band. Don't get me wrong, Carter is an absolute beast and is incredibly technically proficient and has been one of my favorite drummers of all time. I started drumming when I was in 5th grade and discovered Carter probably about 3 years later (I'm 33 now) and instantly became his biggest fan. I even adopted his open handed style of playing. Then, when I was a junior in high school, someone let me borrow Billy Breaths which led to Story of the Ghost, Picture of Nectar, Live at..., etc. and became just as big of a fan of Jon Fishman. I would say I can come close to a lot of things Carter can do (used to actually, I've been out of practice for quite awhile) but sometimes can't even comprehend how to play things Fishman does. Sometimes I wonder if Fishman has 4 different brains the way he plays one time signature on one hand, another signature with his feet and then some crazy syncopated rhythm with his other hand. If you don't think Jon Fishman is one of the greats then you are not a drummer and don't know anything about drumming. Maybe you don't like Phish, fine, I HATE Rush but that doesn't make Neal Peart a crappy drummer. Someone mentioned technical proficiency - Fishman is so incredibly technically proficient that it's borderline insane.

This question has often plagued me. I think what it comes down to is that you can't say one is better than the other. The two have completely different playing styles. I think Carter has the chops to play things Fishman does, but DMB's music doesn't require that. I haven't heard Fishman play as aggressive as Carter before, but that doesn't mean he's not capable. But seriously, as a drummer for many years who used to study both of these guys you really don't know what you're talking about if you say Fishman is no contest to Carter. In my opinion if you do believe Fishman to be no contest than your opinion is completely invalid.

Having said all that, Carter has gone downhill in my eyes since Roi passed. His aggressive playing has become more about fast and loud vs. dynamic and precise. The louder and faster he is the louder the crowd roars so I guess that's what we're stuck with. He's way more talented than what he's been producing the past few years. Grey Street is the best example when comparing his playing style as of late. The way he plays that song these days makes me not able to listen sometimes. The way he used to play it was so much more interesting and exciting. The split rhythms between the toms, hi-hat and cymbals in the old versions are so much better than the loud bashing he does these days.

[willndmb]

I'm blown away by the number of people who think fishman is in the same league as carter lol
Granted I never played drums to any real scale and I don't care for phish lyrics
But seriously carter is considered one of the best drummers ever and has fishman ever been talked about in those discussions, not by ones I have read/seen
So even though my technical opinion might be lacking, I doubt everyone making those lists and discussions are as uneducated as me

[KevinTH]

Originally Posted by willndmb

I'm blown away by the number of people who think fishman is in the same league as carter lol
Granted I never played drums to any real scale and I don't care for phish lyrics
But seriously carter is considered one of the best drummers ever and has fishman ever been talked about in those discussions, not by ones I have read/seen
So even though my technical opinion might be lacking, I doubt everyone making those lists and discussions are as uneducated as me

I think he's simply overlooked. Phish takes a certain kind of fan to enjoy their music and I think people just don't know enough. His creativity and ability to split time signatures the way he does is incredible. There's so much more to drumming than people realize and Fishman is definitely up there. Just because a list in a magazine doesn't have him listed doesn't mean he isn't in the same league as Carter. How many lists have there been that don't include DMB on them for best bands of all time, or best songs of all time and people around here get pissed?

Like I said, if you know nothing about drumming then you don't know the complexities involved. However, the styles of these two drummers are completely different so it's really hard to compare. But Jon Fishman is definitely up there.

[Roose13]

Can Carter play the fucking vacuum? I think not!

[KevinTH]

Originally Posted by Roose13

Can Carter play the fucking vacuum? I think not!

Trying to picture carter in the dress.