Is Big Whiskey getting worse to anyone else?

[pat3773]

i hate this album ill be 1oo percent honest i wouldnt mind if they never played another song off it ever again wooooo!

[canes101190]

Not sure what the criteria is to make it a "Big 4" or whatever, but I view it as a Big 4. Meaning that I'd take any and every song from those 4 albums.

UTTAD, Crash, BTCS, and Big Whiskey.

Busted Stuff misses the cut because I don't want to hear WAYG, KKJ, Busted Stuff, or Ditch at a show.

[CGTP13]

I've been listening to BW quite a bit lately. SMLAM, Squirm and A-Pie especially are great.

[Beefsteak1138]

I'd put it on par with BTCS

UTTAD
Crash
BTCS/Whiskey
Busted Stuff
Everyday
Stand Up

[RobRoy286]

This album would so much better if it were this...

1. Grux
2. Shake Me Like A Monkey
3. Funny The Way It Is
4. Lying In The Hands of God
5. Why I Am
6. #27
7. Spaceman
8. Squirm
9. Alligator Pie
10. Seven
11. Time Bomb
12. Baby Blue
13. Beach Ball

[btpeters]

Originally Posted by RobRoy286

This album would so much better if it were this...

1. Grux
2. Shake Me Like A Monkey
3. Funny The Way It Is
4. Lying In The Hands of God
5. Why I Am
6. #27
7. Spaceman
8. Squirm
9. Alligator Pie
10. Seven
11. Time Bomb
12. Baby Blue
13. Beach Ball

Album's great just the way it is. Beach Ball would worsen it honestly

[manderso]

Originally Posted by Beefsteak1138

I'd put it on par with BTCS

UTTAD
Crash
BTCS/Whiskey
Busted Stuff
Everyday
Stand Up

I just threw up all over everything.

[PantalaNagaMan]

I honestly, full-heatedly continue to become more and more in love with this album. It still surprises me how well-thought and done this album really is. I'm falling in love with different songs, different parts - constantly. I gave Stand Up a shot a week ago, and then listened to Big Whiskey (after not listening to a song from it in nearly 2 months) - and the differences were almost laughable. The production is there, the work is there, the heart is there - you can hear it in the songs, you can vision these guys sitting in a room playing these songs together - going, "wow, that's something". I have a respect for this album because its one of the first albums I was able to go out as a TRUE fan and go - "now this is why I thought about this constantly for 415 days". I wasn't there for UTTAD, I wasn't there for BTCS - I was there for ED ---> BW. And this is the one album that finally captivated me after so long of a wait. You in all honesty just have to listen - really, really, listen - and just let the music take you to get this album. Really.

[btpeters]

Originally Posted by PantalaNagaMan

I honestly, full-heatedly continue to become more and more in love with this album. It still surprises me how well-thought and done this album really is. I'm falling in love with different songs, different parts - constantly. I gave Stand Up a shot a week ago, and then listened to Big Whiskey (after not listening to a song from it in nearly 2 months) - and the differences were almost laughable. The production is there, the work is there, the heart is there - you can hear it in the songs, you can vision these guys sitting in a room playing these songs together - going, "wow, that's something". I have a respect for this album because its one of the first albums I was able to go out as a TRUE fan and go - "now this is why I thought about this constantly for 415 days". I wasn't there for UTTAD, I wasn't there for BTCS - I was there for ED ---> BW. And this is the one album that finally captivated me after so long of a wait. You in all honesty just have to listen - really, really, listen - and just let the music take you to get this album. Really.

Love this brilliant post!

[mechman]

I'd put it like this now:

BTCS
UTTAD
Busted Stuff
Crash
BWGGK
Everyday
Stand Up

On the day of release it was:

BTCS
UTTAD
Crash
Busted Stuff
BWGGK
Everyday
Stand Up

[Beefsteak1138]

Originally Posted by manderso

I just threw up all over everything.

Sucks to be you.

[PantalaNagaMan]

Originally Posted by mechman

I'd put it like this now:

BTCS
UTTAD
Busted Stuff
Crash
BWGGK
Everyday
Stand Up

On the day of release it was:

BTCS
UTTAD
Crash
Busted Stuff
BWGGK
Everyday
Stand Up

So......

Big Whiskey makes you like BS better than Crash now?

[CGTP13]

My list would go something like this

BTCS
Crash





Big Whiskey/UTTAD
BS

ED






SU

[kydmb99]

Originally Posted by PantalaNagaMan

I honestly, full-heatedly continue to become more and more in love with this album. It still surprises me how well-thought and done this album really is. I'm falling in love with different songs, different parts - constantly. I gave Stand Up a shot a week ago, and then listened to Big Whiskey (after not listening to a song from it in nearly 2 months) - and the differences were almost laughable. The production is there, the work is there, the heart is there - you can hear it in the songs, you can vision these guys sitting in a room playing these songs together - going, "wow, that's something". I have a respect for this album because its one of the first albums I was able to go out as a TRUE fan and go - "now this is why I thought about this constantly for 415 days". I wasn't there for UTTAD, I wasn't there for BTCS - I was there for ED ---> BW. And this is the one album that finally captivated me after so long of a wait. You in all honesty just have to listen - really, really, listen - and just let the music take you to get this album. Really.

It's better than SU for sure... but comes nowhere near the Big 3 in any regard IMO..

[lockman21]

Album is mediocre at best. I liked it when it came out, now it's just ok.

[SmoothG]

Originally Posted by kydmb99

It's better than SU for sure... but comes nowhere near the Big 3 in any regard IMO..

Originally Posted by lockman21

Album is mediocre at best.

This is how I feel. I don't understand how anyone could think this is better than Busted Stuff. I rank it barely ahead of Everyday.

[canes101190]

It's very easily better than SU, ED, and BS. I think it's better produced than Crash as well.

[Beefsteak1138]

Originally Posted by SmoothG

This is how I feel. I don't understand how anyone could think this is better than Busted Stuff. I rank it barely ahead of Everyday.

BS just lacks something for me. The whole album just feels like it has no energy.

[Evans]

In my history of a DMB fan, the first album I was a fan to experience was Before These Crowded Streets. The Spring of 1998 is very clear in my mind, I remember it so well and that album permeates that time period for me. Then I saw my first show in August 1998 and I was blown away. Nonetheless, BTCS is a very "spring" album for me, I tend to get the itch to give it a hard listen in the spring or it feels good to play in the car when the weather is nice. Big Whiskey does have that similar vibe for me.

If I look past the lazy lyrics, I really enjoy this album in the spring/summer just like someone said. It's always in the CD player in the car lately. My 4 year old daughter really really loves "You & Me". I've been playing certain tracks for her to show her how music is made. I played Dive In for her and pointed out how Carter is just so all over the place in that song and that's what a good drummer sounds like. She really soaks it in. She's so funny, when my wife drives the car and I'm not there, my wife will usually shut the Groogrux off and my daughter will say "NO Mommy, Dave Matthews Band is Daddy and mine's favorite BAND!".

[jaymas9]

I don't get the lazy lyrics sentiment from this album at all. Some of the greatest songs ever have lyrics this board would consider lazy. Just look at Hello, Goodbye by the Beatles or D'yer Maker by Zeppelin. Is someone really going to try and say those aren't incredible tunes? There has been posts in the past criticizing Squirm's lyrics for being mediocre at best or lazy. I'm not singling you out Evans, I am just looking for some sort of insight into this lyric criticizing phenomenon that goes on there a whole lot. It just seems like a contradiction people would crap on Shake Me even for lyrics yet praise classic bands who have songs just as simplistic and light-hearted.

[SmoothG]

Originally Posted by jaymas9

I don't get the lazy lyrics sentiment from this album at all. Some of the greatest songs ever have lyrics this board would consider lazy. Just look at Hello, Goodbye by the Beatles or D'yer Maker by Zeppelin. Is someone really going to try and say those aren't incredible tunes? There has been posts in the past criticizing Squirm's lyrics for being mediocre at best or lazy. I'm not singling you out Evans, I am just looking for some sort of insight into this lyric criticizing phenomenon that goes on there a whole lot. It just seems like a contradiction people would crap on Shake Me even for lyrics yet praise classic bands who have songs just as simplistic and light-hearted.

So, are we allowed to analyze/criticize lyrics at all? Brittany Spears and Nickleback are on the same level as the Beatles and Dylan? I don't get your point. BW is nowhere near the level of Crash, UTTD, BTCS or tLWS as a whole. I don't mind Squirms lyrics and I don't mind some simple lyrics. But as a whole, there are some weak spots all over BW. I just don't think its that good an album. Its okay and a step in the right direction.

Also, easily better than BS? Come on now. Say what you will about the production, etc...but the songs (minus wayg) are much better than BW.

It seems like some people just want this album to be great and as good as their first three. Its not. Its okay. It is what it is. A decent effort and a step in the right direction.

[SmoothG]

Originally Posted by Beefsteak1138

BS just lacks something for me. The whole album just feels like it has no energy.

I know what you mean. I feel that as well. But the songs are so much better on BS. BW does have a lot of energy...I just don't dig the songs that much.

[grace2]

BTCS


UTTAD




Crash


Big Whiskey

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by SmoothG

It seems like some people just want this album to be great and as good as their first three. Its not. Its okay. It is what it is. A decent effort and a step in the right direction.

I feel the same way. People want this to be the resurgence of DMB. This may sound a little bit off, but I wonder if people would look upon this album the same if it weren't a dedication to LeRoi.

[canes101190]

Originally Posted by lockman21

I feel the same way. People want this to be the resurgence of DMB. This may sound a little bit off, but I wonder if people would look upon this album the same if it weren't a dedication to LeRoi.

Yeah, it does sound completely off because this album would be totally different if Leroi was still around.

[Evans]

Originally Posted by jaymas9

I don't get the lazy lyrics sentiment from this album at all. Some of the greatest songs ever have lyrics this board would consider lazy. Just look at Hello, Goodbye by the Beatles or D'yer Maker by Zeppelin. Is someone really going to try and say those aren't incredible tunes? There has been posts in the past criticizing Squirm's lyrics for being mediocre at best or lazy. I'm not singling you out Evans, I am just looking for some sort of insight into this lyric criticizing phenomenon that goes on there a whole lot. It just seems like a contradiction people would crap on Shake Me even for lyrics yet praise classic bands who have songs just as simplistic and light-hearted.

Let me try to break this down so I can maybe show you what i mean.

Shake Me: The lyrics are dripping with sex and that's not a bad thing. The problem is, Dave used to be able to say alot more without saying so much (if you get what I mean). Look at Rapunzel for example. That song is dripping with sex but the imagery is rich. The wordplay is creative. But in Shake Me, we get "I like my coffee with toast and jelly but I'd rather be lickin' you from your back to your belly". We get "thing I, like about you" said like twice in the first part of the song, like he's filling space. It's like he's being blatantly crude to distract us from the creativity that is sorely missing.

Funny: I don't mind the lyrics here. It's a little bit bordering on Alanis and "Ironic", but I like it.

Lying in the Hands of God: to me, this is the highlight of the album. If you have an album full of songs written and produced like this, then you have a TRUE top 3 contender.

Why I Am: lyrics are OK, nothing too special here. The lyrics are really "on the nose".

Dive In: Perhaps the most embarrassing lyrical part of this album is Dave contemplating about this polar bear. He really wants to make this grand statement about global warming and he's willing to shoehorn lyrics for the opportunity to put it on the album. It's a fun song and I enjoy it, as I enjoy all the songs on this album, but if we're talking lyrics then this is not too hot.

Space Man: "I love the way you _______ baby, and I love the way you _______". And then leading up to the chorus it's just dave kinda scat-humming along. I feel like this song started with the chorus, like one night they came up with the "All the freaks are on parade......" lyric and then sort of half-assed the rest of the song. It just doesn't feel like alot of effort went into this. I also feel like the chorus should be instrumentally more "new-orleans Jazzized", it's just dying for a horn to be playing some of those scales.

Squirm: The lyrics here are good. I think Dave did a good job here.

Alligator Pie: This song is fun, I like it, but it's sort of a mess all around. Sometimes a mess is fun though. Lyrically though, is just okay I guess. Meh.

Seven: Aaaand here goes Dave again really wanting to be down and dirty and write something dripping with sex.....aaaand once again he hits us over the head with crudity rather than coming up with creative ways to say things. I mean c'mon, talking about not washing your hands because you smell the person's crotch on them? Holy hell in a shit house Dave.

Time Bomb: I nearly forgot to include Time Bomb. That says something. "If Martians fell from the sky what would that do to God?" C'mon Dave, too on the nose again. And this "noone would believe it except the fucking nutjobs". That is so awkward. The ending is awesome instrumentally, but the lyrics are a little bit cringeworthy.

Baby Blue: An absolutely beautiful song here. The lyrics are beautiful and you know why? Because it's real, it's heartfelt, it meant something to him personally. Dave's always been at his best that way.

You & Me: Nearly cringeworthy bubble gum pop, but it is very sweet-natured. No real lyrics worth mentioning here.

[inmytree]

Originally Posted by jaymas9

I don't get the lazy lyrics sentiment from this album at all. Some of the greatest songs ever have lyrics this board would consider lazy. Just look at Hello, Goodbye by the Beatles or D'yer Maker by Zeppelin. Is someone really going to try and say those aren't incredible tunes? There has been posts in the past criticizing Squirm's lyrics for being mediocre at best or lazy. I'm not singling you out Evans, I am just looking for some sort of insight into this lyric criticizing phenomenon that goes on there a whole lot. It just seems like a contradiction people would crap on Shake Me even for lyrics yet praise classic bands who have songs just as simplistic and light-hearted.

I think sometimes criticism of a song just gravitates towards lyrics because they're easier to talk about. It's easy to try and point out what makes a great lyric or a bad one. It's much harder, IMO, to really try hard to explain why you think a melody is a great one vs. a good one, or why how the players arranged it changes the song from good to great. The first thing people talk about (with this band more than others, but even for every band) are lyrics. Which are important, but not everything. It reminds me of the criticism of setlist diversity. You hear that talked about much more as a criticism than performance or anything else. Why? Cause it's the easiest thing to talk about. It's blatant, how you can criticize a band for stagnant sets; just look at the sets. But it's harder to talk about how performance and atmosphere and all the other intangibles make a show great or poor.

[inmytree]

Originally Posted by Evans

Baby Blue: An absolutely beautiful song here. The lyrics are beautiful and you know why? Because it's real, it's heartfelt, it meant something to him personally. Dave's always been at his best that way.

You & Me: Nearly cringeworthy bubble gum pop, but it is very sweet-natured. No real lyrics worth mentioning here.

You seem to be saying here that since you don't like the lyrics on the rest of the album, they didn't mean something to Dave personally. Which I don't think is a good assumption to make.

[Evans]

Originally Posted by inmytree

You seem to be saying here that since you don't like the lyrics on the rest of the album, they didn't mean something to Dave personally. Which I don't think is a good assumption to make.

I think Dave writes better lyrics when he's rightly inspired. I think the other songs can mean something to him without having good lyrics though. Baby Blue stands out more to me because it is lyrically stronger than most of the rest of the album.

[inmytree]

Well, for all we know, the lyrics on this album mean just as much or more to Dave than anything he has written in the past. What we personally think about them doesn't change that possibility.

But in a way I agree; if there's a weak point on the album, it's the lyrics. But they're just not that much of a weak point to sink the album. As I said earlier in the thread, I think this is one of Dave's most ambitious and diverse albums lyrically; it certainly covers the "love, sex, God and death" topics that Dave's been obsessed with. However, it certainly takes you on a journey, beginning with the brashness of Shake Me, continuing to the NOLA inspired stories of Spaceman and Alligator Pie, the obsession of Seven, the complete collapse of faith in Time Bomb, making peace in Baby Blue, and finding comfort in You And Me. It's a hell of an album in terms of it's lyrical scope. I just think Dave sometimes doesn't follow through on the execution, i.e. the ideas are better than the details. But in the end that's a relatively minor thing to damn an entire album on. And I still think that this fanbase is overly obsessed with lyricism; it questions a song not only if it doesn't have "good" lyrics, but that if the lyrics aren't deep and complex. There's a time for those songs, and there's a time for Shake Me Like A Monkey. People that criticize Shake Me not only for it's actual content, but on the fact that it's not Dreaming Tree are missing the point. But, long story short, I agree with you, but I definetely wouldn't go as far as you went in your post.

That being said, I think Rapunzel is just as quality lyrically (and certainly as nasty) as both Seven and Shake Me. Your criticism of Shake Me and Seven as being blatantly crude ring a little hollow when Rapunzel litterally begins with a description of the narrator eating his woman out, with locked hips all over the place. Rapunzel succeeds, like Seven and Shake Me do, on the music, the melody, the creativity of it and the fitingness of the lyrics to the musicial foundation.