Link Park's Chester Bennington committed suicide

[crashintonickdm]

If you kill yourself obviously your frame of mind is not right. So thinking if it's selfish or not probably isn't even happening.

Come on people

[jmkratt]

Originally Posted by bigeyedpigs

Yea, I know it isn't a popular opinion and my apologies if you are offended. I'm not trying to be asshole, however I do think its selfish.

I'm not offended but do appreciate your comment, you're not being an asshole. I am just disappointed people share that sentiment. I agree with Crowley. Mental health is legit, it's not weakness or selfishness. I don't see how anyone can judge a person without walking in their shoes.

[Roose13]

People think suicide is just a snap decision made by a sane person giving up. I hope that no one here, regardless how stupid their opinions are on a lot of things, or anywhere else, goes through a depression severe enough to warp the mind into thinking suicide is a solution.

[bigeyedpigs]

Originally Posted by jmkratt

I'm not offended but do appreciate your comment, you're not being an asshole. I am just disappointed people share that sentiment. I agree with Crowley. Mental health is legit, it's not weakness or selfishness. I don't see how anyone can judge a person without walking in their shoes.

I completely agree with your stance on mental health and walking in another's shoes. Depression is a terrible thing and can change a person entirely. I don't think a person can ever really judge what another is going through. Some people can empathize, having been in similar circumstances, and have their perceived idea but not actually know. I don't believe depression or mental illness should be categorized as weakness what so ever. Life is hard and unfortunately bad things happen to good people, I'd just prefer not to see them quit.

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by bigeyedpigs

I completely agree with your stance on mental health and walking in another's shoes. Depression is a terrible thing and can change a person entirely. I don't think a person can ever really judge what another is going through. Some people can empathize, having been in similar circumstances, and have their perceived idea but not actually know. I don't believe depression or mental illness should be categorized as weakness what so ever. Life is hard and unfortunately bad things happen to good people, I'd just prefer not to see them quit.

But that's the thing...it's not really 'quitting.' You can't think someone 'deciding' to kill themselves is anything close to being in the same frame of mind as when they go to the grocery store or something. It's probably not even like being drunk. It's obviously some super fucked up brain chemistry going on.

If you're acknowledging it's a mental illness, think about it like a mental illness. Do schizophrenics choose to have that? No, of course not. But it's a physiological condition.

[bigeyedpigs]

Originally Posted by zajDmB1

But that's the thing...it's not really 'quitting.' You can't think someone 'deciding' to kill themselves is anything close to being in the same frame of mind as when they go to the grocery store or something. It's probably not even like being drunk. It's obviously some super fucked up brain chemistry going on.

If you're acknowledging it's a mental illness, think about it like a mental illness. Do schizophrenics choose to have that? No, of course not. But it's a physiological condition.

You are correct schizophrenia is not something a person would choose to have, and honestly I have no idea what mental issues this man may have been dealing with. I do know depression can be caused by becoming chemically dependent on drugs, however people that are depressed often self medicate, which in turn is a dangerous cycle. Maybe I should have used more tact and quit may have been a poor choice of words, but in the end i still believe it is a choice, whether the brain is functioning rationally or not.

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by bigeyedpigs

You are correct schizophrenia is not something a person would choose to have, and honestly I have no idea what mental issues this man may have been dealing with. I do know depression can be caused by becoming chemically dependent on drugs, however people that are depressed often self medicate, which in turn is a dangerous cycle. Maybe I should have used more tact and quit may have been a poor choice of words, but in the end i still believe it is a choice, whether the brain is functioning rationally or not.

I don't see how you can think a rationally functioning brain choice and an irrationally functioning brain choice are the same thing though...

[ShotgunDMB]

Cant really listen to their music without cringing these says, but Hybrid Theory was heavy in my rotation in high school. RIP

[bigeyedpigs]

Originally Posted by zajDmB1

I don't see how you can think a rationally functioning brain choice and an irrationally functioning brain choice are the same thing though...

I don't, however I do agree a choice is made whether done irrationally or rationally. I'm not comparing schizophrenia to depression, an unmedicated person during an episode can make extremely irrational decisions, due to neurological issues. However take two forms of depression, seasonal affective disorder and manic depression. While both could be severe and greatly effect a person's life, those with manic, especially during upswings are more prone to make irrational decisions during the two. Although, I think honestly at some point in every persons life they will have symptoms of depression and they choose how they deal with it.

Obviously the person in question wasn't making a rational decision, but did decide the day it would be done, that is a choice. I think part of the problem with suicide is the media, in many ways it's glorified and romanticized, while people that look for help are often scrutinized and perceived as weak.
I'm not trying to be an asshole and I know it isn't a popular opinion but I understand depression pretty well, one of the reasons I'm probably such a big dmb fan.

[zajDmB1]

I guess I'm having trouble seeing how an irrational choice is even something to argue and put on someone though, since it's obviously not their normal state of mind. Especially in framing it as something selfish to do.

If you use that logic you have to apply it to every disorder there is. So anyone is choosing to do anything no matter how fucked their brain is. Normal, healthy Chester did not kill himself. Messed-up brain Chester did. Whether it was a relative moment of extreme weakness that he couldn't get out of and it ended up for the worst, or it was just a constant deterioration doesn't really make a difference, IMO.

I just think calling it a choice in that way makes it seem like it was a rational thought. I just can't get behind an irrational thought being a choice if they whole idea of an irrational thought is that you can't really control it.

[bigeyedpigs]

Originally Posted by zajDmB1

I guess I'm having trouble seeing how an irrational choice is even something to argue and put on someone though, since it's obviously not their normal state of mind. Especially in framing it as something selfish to do.

If you use that logic you have to apply it to every disorder there is. So anyone is choosing to do anything no matter how fucked their brain is. Normal, healthy Chester did not kill himself. Messed-up brain Chester did. Whether it was a relative moment of extreme weakness that he couldn't get out of and it ended up for the worst, or it was just a constant deterioration doesn't really make a difference, IMO.

I just think calling it a choice in that way makes it seem like it was a rational thought. I just can't get behind an irrational thought being a choice if they whole idea of an irrational thought is that you can't really control it.

I understand your point, but let me say this and I'm not trying to be crass. An irrational thought that one can't control is considered impulsive behavior, but the person still makes the choice to engage in that behavior and sometimes does know it's harmful. He chose to off himself on Cornell's birthday, not impulsively before or after, it was a choice. Let's not pretend this guy was living in the walking dead or was a struggling to get by like many Americans do everyday. He was a multimillionaire with access to many resources. He made a choice, just like many people with mental illnesses, depression, and all sorts of busted stuff make the choice to lace up their boots bend a smile and trudge through the day.

[defcon]

Originally Posted by zajDmB1

Defcon, do you really think people are in their 'normal' state of mind when they kill themselves?

I believe, that in limited cases, yes, you can be in your rational mind and kill yourself.

Take, for example, the 9/11 Jumpers. It isn't very hard to imagine what was going through their head. The simple choice of burning up, an agonizing death, or taking matters into their own hands and jumping, a certain, but quick, virtually instantaneous death.

Originally Posted by Lee3691

Perhaps better wording is that Defcon makes a shitty point when he thinks if he had some more money, all of his problems would be solved.

No, pretty much got all my problems behind me but money. I understand many on these boards think I'm just chock full of problems but really its minor Seinfeld shit. Things are pretty good right now. If I could only get out of debt, that'd solve my problems. Until then, I can't really move on in life.

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Why does defcon have a free palestine avi? so random.

I'm not really at liberty to discuss. A particular moderator considers "Support for Palestine = Support for Terrorism" Many here consider said moderator to be vexatious. I said nothing derogatory. Might be a good idea to just go ahead and make me a mod if this person is a mod. Clearly they can't distinguish between feigned personal butthurt and legitimate discussion.

Originally Posted by jmkratt

Seems to me that sentiment is spoken by a man who has never had that kind of money and couldn't possibly understand anything about that perspective but offers his opinion nonetheless.

Why don't you just address me directly? You don't know a god damned thing about me other than you don't like what I post on an internet messageboard. Want me to judge? You sound like a spoiled, entitled, rich fuck who was born with a golden cock in their mouth and hasn't had to work for shit in life. How does that sound? STFU.

Originally Posted by bigeyedpigs

See your getting a shit ton for this post but honestly it's the truth. What is sad is this guy had six children and people that depended on him for their livelihood .Life's hard, it isn't easy, but you can't just quit. At least choose to survive for your children.

Exactly.

Originally Posted by MrCrowley

You have quoted and then elaborated on the least intellectual post I may have ever seen on ants.

Mental Health. It's real. Educate yourself.

Do better.

Justin thinks I am an asshole. The fucks I give are more like chuckles.. and sighs

Actually, I'm very educated about mental health. I've been pretty fucking open about it on here. I've done three stints in psychiatric wards. I've been through more shit than most other human beings can possibly survive. Four times in life I've had the rug literally pulled out from under me in a matter of hours or days. Twice was my fault. The other two times were out of nowhere. I've attempted suicide, which I could have done, cry for help. Alcohol and sleeping pills (doesn't work, you just throw up), and there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about the concept of suicide. Currently have no ideations. I'm stronger for what I've been through.

You come on here with your pseudo-intellectualism as if you're a fucking PhD in Psychology. Nice classic use of hyperbole (the least intellectual post you've ever seen on ants) and unnecessary verbosity, but I'm sorry to tell you, you're wrong.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

I'm proud to say I'm doing pretty fucking great today. Sure, there's problems that come up, but I deal with them. But I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here and read you telling me to educate myself.

Ignoranus. (Intentional)

[jmkratt]

Originally Posted by defcon

I believe, that in limited cases, yes, you can be in your rational mind and kill yourself.

Take, for example, the 9/11 Jumpers. It isn't very hard to imagine what was going through their head. The simple choice of burning up, an agonizing death, or taking matters into their own hands and jumping, a certain, but quick, virtually instantaneous death.



No, pretty much got all my problems behind me but money. I understand many on these boards think I'm just chock full of problems but really its minor Seinfeld shit. Things are pretty good right now. If I could only get out of debt, that'd solve my problems. Until then, I can't really move on in life.



I'm not really at liberty to discuss. A particular moderator considers "Support for Palestine = Support for Terrorism" Many here consider said moderator to be vexatious. I said nothing derogatory. Might be a good idea to just go ahead and make me a mod if this person is a mod. Clearly they can't distinguish between feigned personal butthurt and legitimate discussion.



Why don't you just address me directly? You don't know a god damned thing about me other than you don't like what I post on an internet messageboard. Want me to judge? You sound like a spoiled, entitled, rich fuck who was born with a golden cock in their mouth and hasn't had to work for shit in life. How does that sound? STFU.



Exactly.



Actually, I'm very educated about mental health. I've been pretty fucking open about it on here. I've done three stints in psychiatric wards. I've been through more shit than most other human beings can possibly survive. Four times in life I've had the rug literally pulled out from under me in a matter of hours or days. Twice was my fault. The other two times were out of nowhere. I've attempted suicide, which I could have done, cry for help. Alcohol and sleeping pills (doesn't work, you just throw up), and there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about the concept of suicide. Currently have no ideations. I'm stronger for what I've been through.

You come on here with your pseudo-intellectualism as if you're a fucking PhD in Psychology. Nice classic use of hyperbole (the least intellectual post you've ever seen on ants) and unnecessary verbosity, but I'm sorry to tell you, you're wrong.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

I'm proud to say I'm doing pretty fucking great today. Sure, there's problems that come up, but I deal with them. But I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here and read you telling me to educate myself.

Ignoranus. (Intentional)

This is gold

[Roose13]

Defcon just compared jumping at 9/11 to depression. I quit

[jmkratt]

Originally Posted by Roose13

Defcon just compared jumping at 9/11 to depression. I quit

[TwoStep2888]

Originally Posted by defcon

I believe, that in limited cases, yes, you can be in your rational mind and kill yourself.

Take, for example, the 9/11 Jumpers. It isn't very hard to imagine what was going through their head. The simple choice of burning up, an agonizing death, or taking matters into their own hands and jumping, a certain, but quick, virtually instantaneous death.



No, pretty much got all my problems behind me but money. I understand many on these boards think I'm just chock full of problems but really its minor Seinfeld shit. Things are pretty good right now. If I could only get out of debt, that'd solve my problems. Until then, I can't really move on in life.



I'm not really at liberty to discuss. A particular moderator considers "Support for Palestine = Support for Terrorism" Many here consider said moderator to be vexatious. I said nothing derogatory. Might be a good idea to just go ahead and make me a mod if this person is a mod. Clearly they can't distinguish between feigned personal butthurt and legitimate discussion.



Why don't you just address me directly? You don't know a god damned thing about me other than you don't like what I post on an internet messageboard. Want me to judge? You sound like a spoiled, entitled, rich fuck who was born with a golden cock in their mouth and hasn't had to work for shit in life. How does that sound? STFU.



Exactly.



Actually, I'm very educated about mental health. I've been pretty fucking open about it on here. I've done three stints in psychiatric wards. I've been through more shit than most other human beings can possibly survive. Four times in life I've had the rug literally pulled out from under me in a matter of hours or days. Twice was my fault. The other two times were out of nowhere. I've attempted suicide, which I could have done, cry for help. Alcohol and sleeping pills (doesn't work, you just throw up), and there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about the concept of suicide. Currently have no ideations. I'm stronger for what I've been through.

You come on here with your pseudo-intellectualism as if you're a fucking PhD in Psychology. Nice classic use of hyperbole (the least intellectual post you've ever seen on ants) and unnecessary verbosity, but I'm sorry to tell you, you're wrong.

"The Edge... there is no honest way to explain it because the only people who really know where it is are the ones who have gone over."

I'm proud to say I'm doing pretty fucking great today. Sure, there's problems that come up, but I deal with them. But I'll be damned if I'm going to sit here and read you telling me to educate myself.

Ignoranus. (Intentional)

Originally Posted by Roose13

Defcon just compared jumping at 9/11 to depression. I quit

[justink]

Originally Posted by Roose13

Defcon just compared jumping at 9/11 to depression. I quit

You should quit. It's really not at all surprising that Roose wouldnt be smart enough to understand the point he's making, yet take the opportunity to troll someone over his own ignorance.

The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom Its invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

-David Foster Wallace (suicide 2008)

[OK_Ant]

Originally Posted by Roose13

Defcon just compared jumping at 9/11 to depression. I quit

You don't think those folks were immediately depressed?

It's like people think depression is just one state of mind.

[bigeyedpigs]

Originally Posted by OK_Ant

You don't think those folks were immediately depressed?

It's like people think depression is just one state of mind.

For one to choose to leap to death, over what else they could have faced is a horrific feeling I'm sure none of us could clearly grasp.

[jmkratt]

Originally Posted by bigeyedpigs

For one to choose to leap to death, over what else they could have faced is a horrific feeling I'm sure none of us could clearly grasp.

Agreed

[kydmb99]

That's such a bad comparison. The depressed person has the opportunity to live. The person jumping from a burning building knows death is imminent and unavoidable and chooses what they see to be the quickest and least painful.

[bigeyedpigs]

Originally Posted by kydmb99

That's such a bad comparison. The depressed person has the opportunity to live. The person jumping from a burning building knows death is imminent and unavoidable and chooses what they see to be the quickest and least painful.

There is no rational way to compare a multimillion dollar artist, about to go on tour, with six children that decided to hang himself to a person that jumped on 9/11. None

[scrock25]

Amazing that this site is now arguing about depression and suicide.

Everything turns into a pissing match.

Pay your respects and move the fuck on, JFC.

[crashintonickdm]

people jumped on 9/11 because they chose to go instantly without feeling anything. both options end in death, but hitting the ground at that speed makes it painless. otherwise you burn to death and suffer for a few seconds.

unbelieveable.

[Gene Parmesan]

Since when is an online message board some place to pay respect? Pretty much all snark, hyperbole and arguments about food.

[Gene Parmesan]

Originally Posted by crashintonickdm

If you kill yourself obviously your frame of mind is not right. So thinking if it's selfish or not probably isn't even happening.

Come on people

You don't have to be conscious of your selfishness to be selfish.

[justink]

Originally Posted by kydmb99

That's such a bad comparison. The depressed person has the opportunity to live. The person jumping from a burning building knows death is imminent and unavoidable and chooses what they see to be the quickest and least painful.

for the person that jumps, it's one and the same.

...that's the point of the analogy.

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by bigeyedpigs

I understand your point, but let me say this and I'm not trying to be crass. An irrational thought that one can't control is considered impulsive behavior, but the person still makes the choice to engage in that behavior and sometimes does know it's harmful. He chose to off himself on Cornell's birthday, not impulsively before or after, it was a choice. Let's not pretend this guy was living in the walking dead or was a struggling to get by like many Americans do everyday. He was a multimillionaire with access to many resources. He made a choice, just like many people with mental illnesses, depression, and all sorts of busted stuff make the choice to lace up their boots bend a smile and trudge through the day.

Money doesn't matter and I think the last sentence assumes there's an on-off switch for depression, not a giant sliding scale of degrees.

[bigeyedpigs]

Originally Posted by Gene Parmesan

You don't have to be conscious of your selfishness to be selfish.

Very true. By the wayI absolutely love your screen name, bluths are back in 18!

[zajDmB1]

Re: jumping...I mean...you could argue both scenarios could be a no choice thing...you could also argue the mind of someone faced with fiery death or jumping is acting on pure self-preservation instinct. We could argue back and forth if that's a 'rational' mind or not. Also, many people believe the heat essentially repels the body so there literally was no thought about it.