If you were an Obama VOTER/SUPPORTER, has he lived up to your expectations?

[dmbinchicago]

Yea, he has met my expectations. I can't think of anything I expected him to do which he hasn't done. I can see how the campaign raised unrealistic expectations, but I've been following politics long enough to know that nobody is going to get in there and change the world in nine months. On almost every issue, he has handled things far better than I could envision any of the other 2008 candidates handling them. So yes, I am happy that he won.

[liduponmyhead]

Yes. Obama is a President, not a magical wizard. The world is in a sorry mess right now, and was that way when he arrived. I expected him to folllow through on his campaign agendas and I believe he has pushed through the right ones (health care) and is putting off the right ones (energy bill) I support the stimulus and believe it will do what it was designed to do. It wasn't designed to revive the economy and give everyone a job in 10 months. Most of the money hasn't been distributed yet. Funny, I think a lot of other people support it too. Even folks from states who have staunch Republican governors who swore they wouldn't take stimulus money, but now are having to eat their words, because, yes, the ended up taking some stimulus money.

He is taking the steps to close Gitmo, and it will be done. He is most likely going to ramp up support in Afghanistan, and he said he would do that. He is using the exact kind of diplomacy he said he would use around the world. He has signed a treaty with Russia to drastically cut nuclear arms production. I like the way he has tackled education so far. I like that he is attempting to make the dept. of Education an active force in schools and in the lives of students by giving actual incentive $$ to schools who can come up with proven, creative ways to better educate their kids.

I like that he hasn't raised taxes yet, but will later. Bush tax cuts need to go bye, bye. Conservatives, go ahead and flame. I like Obama because he is being the Obama I voted for. I don't expect the pendulum to swing 90 degrees the other way in one year. I didn't expect Obama to accomplish everything in one year, so yeah, I'm satisfied.

[Beebz]

The above two posts are money. The economy is a disaster and it has severely
limited his domestic agenda. The economy is everything. He has been dealt a shitty hand, and he's about to pass healthcare. That's impressive. The expectations placed upon him were ridiculous, and the declining numbers are evidence that the bulk of soceity still has no clue how difficult it is to make even incremental changes in American politcs.

And Clemson, you are just the worst poster. Just awful in every way.

[hmich176]

Originally Posted by timg1414

I dont think he has lived up to my expectations but I also did not envision the economy tanking as bad as it did. I think he has lost a ton of political capital with the healthcare issue. I think this should have been a second term bill or at least a late first term type of bill. He is going to force through a bill that a lot of people dont like and its extremely expensive. He has wasted a lot of time on this issue and lost whatever minimal support he had across the aisle and from million Americans.

Obama's best chance at getting health care passed is in his first year to two years in office given the result of the 2008 election for Congress and the majority Obama won by. Running healthcare during the late first term would have been disastrous. Doing it in the second term would be out of the question because for a lot of people I know who campaigned for him, their biggest issue was healthcare reform. The healthcare debate is exactly what it is and what it's been for 60 years. It's a third rail issue; a health care bill like this has never passed the House of Representatives and that is very significant. For the Republicans, like it or not, the bill is going to pass. And I don't see how Obama is "forcing" a bill through Congress. There was a year and a half long campaign for president in which health care was a top issue. When the people elected Obama, everyone knew that this was the kind of health care bill we would be getting.

As for the stimulus not stimulating, we're out of the "Bush recession" now. If we slide back in (Japan might because the Yen is too strong for the economy which could cause us to) then the stimulus will be a failure because it can't work then. The stimulus is a long term plan to pump money into the economy to bolster the economy through the recovery. If the economy slides because the world does, anyone should be free to call the stimulus a failure.

:lol It's all politics and most of these issues we're arguing are crap. Nothing is going to change in the short term. You can't just close Gitmo. You can't just pull the troops out of Iraq.

And for that matter, I fundamentally disagree with anyone who thinks we should pull out of Afghanistan. We were attacked on September 11, 2001.

[clemson357]

Originally Posted by Swizz2007

I clearly stated these are works in progress, but they are issues he has tackled.

:lol

There is a difference between "accomplished/tackled" and "work in progress."

It is a bit like saying you have "tackled" a hard day at work, when actually you have just gotten up in the morning and you are still looking for your car keys.

[hmich176]

Originally Posted by clemson357

:lol

There is a difference between "accomplished/tackled" and "work in progress."

It is a bit like saying you have "tackled" a hard day at work, when actually you have just gotten up in the morning and you are still looking for your car keys.

That's the stupidest excuse I've ever seen you write.

[clemson357]

I find it interesting that people on here keep saying things such as "he is about to pass health care." There is a near-consensus on the fact that there are not enough votes in the Senate for any legislation with a public option. The only legislation being debated right now has a public option.

Is it comparable to a touchdown? Any legislation having to do with health insurance counts as a score, regardless of content?

Lets say, hypothetically, that we get a bill that increases the cost of private insurance, that doesn't cover even 15% of the currently uninsured, doesn't have a public option, and basically just amounts to a corporate giveaway by way of an individual mandate. Is this a victory?

[clemson357]

Originally Posted by hmich176

That's the stupidest excuse I've ever seen you write.

Care to explain?

[Swizz2007]

Originally Posted by clemson357

I find it interesting that people on here keep saying things such as "he is about to pass health care." There is a near-consensus on the fact that there are not enough votes in the Senate for any legislation with a public option. The only legislation being debated right now has a public option.

Is it comparable to a touchdown? Any legislation having to do with health insurance counts as a score, regardless of content?

Lets say, hypothetically, that we get a bill that increases the cost of private insurance, that doesn't cover even 15% of the currently uninsured, doesn't have a public option, and basically just amounts to a corporate giveaway by way of an individual mandate. Is this a victory?

Okay, so how about this....if health care legislation passes, you leave The Prompter?

There is still much work to be done. Which means there are a LOT of options to pass this thing. Say they go for a trigger option. They might lose Sanders but they'd probably gain Snowe and Collins, which would get them where they need to be. That's just ONE scenario under which this could be passed.

[clemson357]

Originally Posted by Swizz2007

Okay, so how about this....if health care legislation passes, you leave The Prompter?

There is still much work to be done. Which means there are a LOT of options to pass this thing. Say they go for a trigger option. They might lose Sanders but they'd probably gain Snowe and Collins, which would get them where they need to be. That's just ONE scenario under which this could be passed.

What a great bet. Any legislation having to do with health insurance passes, and I can't post here any more. And of course, you didn't offer any stakes on your side.


How about this:
If health insurance reform passes with a public option, including a trigger option, before 5/1/2010, my sig will say "Obama is the greatest President ever" for an entire year.

And if it doesn't, your sig will say "Obama is an impotent leader, and I should've known this when I voted for him" for an entire year.

[rconverse]

Why is anyone "touting" obama will get healthcare passed when everything has been shit from both sides. Until the two
sides actually work together, there will NOT be meaningful reform. This will be the "Mission Accomplished" moment for this administration. After we've seen a complete lack of success on the stimulus, why are
those on the left so determined to pass another bill? I honestly can't believe there are no people on the left that are triggershy right about now.

[Tiduwho]

Originally Posted by Swizz2007

Too much of his agenda is still a work in progress so it's hard for me to say. If in 1 year I find out we'll have a longer presence in Iraq, Guantanamo isn't closed, health care and energy reform don't pass, and there's been no job creation, then yeah, he sucks.

As of right now I can only go on what he's tackled and how he's tackled it. And with that I am not disappointed. We'll just have to see how all of this stuff pans out to fully judge.

Precisely.


Considering we're in a recession, that there's an uncertain outlook of where we're headed as a country right now, and the ridiculous levels that some of his rivals stoop to in order to rile up the public, I think he's right about where I expected.

We'll see what happens now that things are starting to improve a bit economically.

[clemson357]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Why is anyone "touting" obama will get healthcare passed when everything has been shit from both sides. Until the two
sides actually work together, there will NOT be meaningful reform. This will be the "Mission Accomplished" moment for this administration. After we've seen a complete lack of success on the stimulus, why are those on the left so determined to pass another bill? I honestly can't believe there are no people on the left that are trigger shy right about now.

That is a good analogy.

It is more about being able to tout something as an accomplishment than actually accomplishing something that yields a desired result.

The desired result is making health insurance more affordable. If legislation is passed but this goal isn't accomplished, no doubt there will still be politicians and their drones saying "health insurance reform was passed."

[hmich176]

Originally Posted by clemson357

That is a good analogy.

It is more about being able to tout something as an accomplishment than actually accomplishing something that yields a desired result.

The desired result is making health insurance more affordable. If legislation is passed but this goal isn't accomplished, no doubt there will still be politicians and their drones saying "health insurance reform was passed."

That's a terrible analogy because it's already happened.

Besides, I don't think Obama is going to come out and say we've "completed our mission" on health care. He say's that, he's got people on the left screaming single payer and he's got people on the right screaming he's flushed the country down the toilet (which they're already saying anyway, so that's really a moot point).

[clemson357]

Originally Posted by hmich176

That's a terrible analogy because it's already happened.

You make no sense. What has "already happened?"

[FunkyTeaParty]

I am not particularly pleased so far. I think the escalation of troops in Afghanistan is another swirl or two down the toilet for this country. I plan on never being more disgusted by Obama than I will be when he gives this prime time address to announce it.

That being said, I am still happy Obama is president and not McCain.

[ShotgunDMB]

Originally Posted by FunkyTeaParty

I plan on never being more disgusted by Obama than I will be when he gives this prime time address to announce it.

Why?

[liduponmyhead]

Originally Posted by clemson357

:lol

There is a difference between "accomplished/tackled" and "work in progress."

It is a bit like saying you have "tackled" a hard day at work, when actually you have just gotten up in the morning and you are still looking for your car keys.

Wouldn't you say some things are much harder to get accomplished than others? Putting an agenda through, and dealing with Congress on one of the biggest pieces of legislation in modern history, and dealing with the worst economy in 60 plus years might take a little longer than 10 months.

Take the comparison of teaching/education. Say you're a 6th grade English teacher. You have 4 kids in your class who read at a 1st grade level. You're a good teacher, and very knowlegable when it comes to teaching reading. But, is it realistic to believe that you'll be able to bring up those kids' reading ability to 6th gr. level in 9 months time? Most likely you can bring it up a couple levels, and hopefully, next year the next teacher can bring it up some more. Some say that's an accomplishment, while others might say you've failed if you didn't bring their reading level to 6th gr. in nine months.

[FunkyTeaParty]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Why?

I don't think the vast majority of people that voted for him did so with an escalation in Afghanistan in mind.

I also think it is a terrible idea.

[Elliott Evans]

Folks, it hasn't even been a year yet.

[Lcsulla]

While I was never a supporter I had hoped he would govern like Bill Clinton in a sense, being more towards the center. For all his faults; Clinton could read the public and would abandon ideas that were wildly unpopular. Obama will not do this and by extension Congress will not either. It is their way or the highway, Chicago style. In that way he has failed MY expectation. I thought if he governed moderately he had a shot to be a decent President - a placeholder of sorts like Clinton or Bush 1 but no. We are just stuck with an egomaniac radical for at least 3 more years.

[FunkyTeaParty]

Dropping the public option and escalation in Afghanistan not right wing enough for ya?

[ShotgunDMB]

Originally Posted by FunkyTeaParty

I don't think the vast majority of people that voted for him did so with an escalation in Afghanistan in mind.

I also think it is a terrible idea.

He campaigned on continuing the war in Afghanistan. Shouldn't be a suprise.

[FunkyTeaParty]

I wouldn't say surprised because he also campaigned on ending the war in Iraq and he hasn't done that.

It's just a terrrible idea. Nobody "wins" in Afghanistan. Doubling down just means there is more to lose.

[Dooks]

Originally Posted by FunkyTeaParty

I wouldn't say surprised because he also campaigned on ending the war in Iraq and he hasn't done that.

It's just a terrrible idea. Nobody "wins" in Afghanistan. Doubling down just means there is more to lose.

If you leave..the terrorists win. :rolleyes

[Lcsulla]

Originally Posted by FunkyTeaParty

Dropping the public option and escalation in Afghanistan not right wing enough for ya?

Right wing? :lol

Sorry, that barely hits the McCain\Kennedy wing for me.

It is not a question of numbers in Afghanistan to me, it is a question of strategy. Bush never knew what we were trying to accomplish and nor does Obama. The military is stuck there and not allowed to fight. Since about 2004 our mindset has not been to 'win' in Afghanistan, it has been to not lose and that is no way to fight a war. If people want to get troops of Afghanistan there is one sure way to do it; untie the hands of the junior officers and let them do what needs to be done. You cannot beat an insurgency without some bad press and both the Bush and Obama administrations are too worried about offending people with methods.

The entire health care proposal is a sinkhole, public option or not. It is going to cost a ton of money and do very little to curb healthcare costs and the quality of healthcare will inevitably decline.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by hmich176

That's a terrible analogy because it's already happened.

Besides, I don't think Obama is going to come out and say we've "completed our mission" on health care. He say's that, he's got people on the left screaming single payer and he's got people on the right screaming he's flushed the country down the toilet (which they're already saying anyway, so that's really a moot point).

I'm sorry, but I would have to 100% disagree with the bolded. He may not be using those exact words, but come elections, the left will be "bragging" that they passed healthcare.

Also, the analogy stands whether it has happened or not as I said it will be their "Mission Accomplished" moment.

[clemson357]

Originally Posted by FunkyTeaParty

I don't think the vast majority of people that voted for him did so with an escalation in Afghanistan in mind.

I also think it is a terrible idea.

I think Obama campaigned on the idea of concentrating in Afghanistan because he wanted to look like he was serious about National Security, but he knew he had to also run on the idea that Iraq was an enormous mistake.

I don't think he ever contemplated being called out to send 40,000 more troops. Not in his worst nightmare.


I also think he is treading water on the escalation because he doesn't want his political capital stretched to thin until after health insurance reform has the right momentum.

[clemson357]

Originally Posted by rconverse

I'm sorry, but I would have to 100% disagree with the bolded. He may not be using those exact words, but come elections, the left will be "bragging" that they passed healthcare.

Also, the analogy stands whether it has happened or not as I said it will be their "Mission Accomplished" moment.

Yeah, the "already happened" statement makes no sense.

[Lee3691]

Originally Posted by Lcsulla

We are just stuck with an egomaniac radical for at least 7 more years.

Corrected until the Republicans get their act together