The NHL Thread

[SirBobalew]

They don't want the All Star Game to become like the pro bowl. And if people can skip without consequences, many stars will pull out because they'd rather have the vacation. I get the reason for suspending those that skip it.

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

But I also get that if they just left it up to each player to decide whether they came or not, it could get unorganized and chaotic pretty quick trying to find replacements and such. Can you imagine if 5, 10, 15 players suddenly decided they weren't going to come? So there does need to be a rule in place. I get that. It sucks for players like Toews who are legitimately sick. But honestly, a one game suspension really isn't that bad.

this is the part that is ridiculous to me

all of the other sports have to find replacements because guys just don't want to do it....people drop out of the MLB ASG left and right, and that decides home field in the freakin World Series! (which is a joke btw)

its easy to find replacement, and again, its an exhibition. the game literally means nothing....nothing. it's a waste...all ASGs are wastes

and to the bolded, a 1 game suspension for a meaningful game is a HUGE deal. points are precious. what if you lose the division, or miss the playoffs by a point? you don't think having Toews for that game might help get you an extra point?

just another notch in the very long belt of embarrassing things the NHL does IMO

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by hailtopitt

there's a lot to like about the NHL

but what, am i supposed to enjoy mandatory suspensions for players because they don't play in an exhibition? am i supposed to enjoy a perpetual cycle of cheap head shots and subsequent discipline that is laughable? am i supposed to enjoy a league that does not let it's stars be put on display, where the top points scorers are lucky to break the 90 point threshold?

it's a great sport with great young talent, great officals and great fans but constantly handcuffs itself

You and I have agreed before regarding headshots and lack of real discipline, so that's fair. I actually don't mind the mandatory suspension, I can understand why players wouldn't want to participate but in my opinion, the stars of this league are handsomely compensated, and while the league obviously makes a ton off the players, I think it should be an obligation to participate in something like an all star game, especially when there isn't any real effort required.

What more should the league do to increase scoring, in your opinion? I don't disagree that it's too low, but honestly I do think the league has made real strides to open the game up. Elimination of the red line, reducing the ability of goalies to act as third defenseman, widening of the offensive zones, tightening of hooking/holding penalties, etc. Given how good goalies are these days, I'm just not sure what else can be done. Full length power plays? Shrinking goalie equipment? Bigger nets? International sized ice? There are still steps that can be taken, but it's not like the league hasn't recognized the scoring problem and reacted in the past.

I'm curious why you didn't enjoy 3 on 3 at the all star game. In fact, I believe you and my dad are the only people I've heard say they didn't enjoy it. But my dad is an old curmudgeon hockey purist who loved the tie. So there's that.

There is no arguing that the league has a habit of smashing eggs all over their face. The handling of John Scott is only the most recent example. It's just I never see you post anything positive with regards to the league ever. And I do think there are a lot of good things going on.

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by SirBobalew

They don't want the All Star Game to become like the pro bowl. And if people can skip without consequences, many stars will pull out because they'd rather have the vacation. I get the reason for suspending those that skip it.

why not? the Pro Bowl drew twice as many viewers as the NHL ASG and both of them are equally meaningless

could you imagine if the NFL tried to suspend Antonio Brown, Richard Sherman or Odell Beckham JR. for missing the Pro-Bowl?!?! even if it was for 1 quarter (since theres only 16 games)

they would get laughed at and be considered an absolute joke. and rightfully so

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by barbogast

You and I have agreed before regarding headshots and lack of real discipline, so that's fair. I actually don't mind the mandatory suspension, I can understand why players wouldn't want to participate but in my opinion, the stars of this league are handsomely compensated, and while the league obviously makes a ton off the players, I think it should be an obligation to participate in something like an all star game, especially when there isn't any real effort required.

What more should the league do to increase scoring, in your opinion? I don't disagree that it's too low, but honestly I do think the league has made real strides to open the game up. Elimination of the red line, reducing the ability of goalies to act as third defenseman, widening of the offensive zones, tightening of hooking/holding penalties, etc. Given how good goalies are these days, I'm just not sure what else can be done. Full length power plays? Shrinking goalie equipment? Bigger nets? International sized ice? There are still steps that can be taken, but it's not like the league hasn't recognized the scoring problem and reacted in the past.

I'm curious why you didn't enjoy 3 on 3 at the all star game. In fact, I believe you and my dad are the only people I've heard say they didn't enjoy it. But my dad is an old curmudgeon hockey purist who loved the tie. So there's that.

There is no arguing that the league has a habit of smashing eggs all over their face. The handling of John Scott is only the most recent example. It's just I never see you post anything positive with regards to the league ever. And I do think there are a lot of good things going on.

no player should ever be required to participate in an exhibition. ever.

as far as head shots, it's time to start suspending guys for 10 games on first offense. right off the bat, send a message. if you're a repeat offender (or if you're Dennis Wideman) 41-82 games...fines won't do anything and neither will 2 or 3 games

removing the red line only worked for the first few years in opening up the ice. now, coaches and teams have adjusted their traps to account for no red line. its a moot rule change now.

bigger nets and smaller goalie equipment would be a step in the right direction. the biggest thing for me though, would be actually enforcing the rules properly. stick infractions, interference, etc....more powerplays in general

[barbogast]

Seriously though, what didn't you enjoy about 3 on 3 asg?

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by hailtopitt

why not? the Pro Bowl drew twice as many viewers as the NHL ASG and both of them are equally meaningless

could you imagine if the NFL tried to suspend Antonio Brown, Richard Sherman or Odell Beckham JR. for missing the Pro-Bowl?!?! even if it was for 1 quarter (since theres only 16 games)

they would get laughed at and be considered an absolute joke. and rightfully so

It's the NFL though, that's why it was watched. Also the NFL doesn't need the pro bowl, the way the NHL needs the all-star game. The NHL uses it to get more advertising dollars and all the other $$$ side of things. The NFL shits gold right now so

The NHL all-star game makes them money so they want all the stars to be there. Pro Bowl with few stars vs NHL All-Star games with few stars...we know how that ends.

[Lcsulla]

Honest question, if you are selected as an all star can you decline to play if you just want the time off?

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by Lcsulla

Honest question, if you are selected as an all star can you decline to play if you just want the time off?

Not without serving a one game suspension after the break is over

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by barbogast

Seriously though, what didn't you enjoy about 3 on 3 asg?

It really doesn't matter to me what format the ASG is in, it's pointless either way. It's nice they tried changing things up and the up-and-down nature of 3-on-3 is nice but it does nothing for me.

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

It's the NFL though, that's why it was watched. Also the NFL doesn't need the pro bowl, the way the NHL needs the all-star game. The NHL uses it to get more advertising dollars and all the other $$$ side of things. The NFL shits gold right now so



The NHL all-star game makes them money so they want all the stars to be there. Pro Bowl with few stars vs NHL All-Star games with few stars...we know how that ends.

The NHL doesn't need the ASG...none of the leagues need them.

The NHL would grow their league and add advertising dollars if they fixed the problems they have in their meaningful games

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by hailtopitt

this is the part that is ridiculous to me

all of the other sports have to find replacements because guys just don't want to do it....people drop out of the MLB ASG left and right, and that decides home field in the freakin World Series! (which is a joke btw)

its easy to find replacement, and again, its an exhibition. the game literally means nothing....nothing. it's a waste...all ASGs are wastes

and to the bolded, a 1 game suspension for a meaningful game is a HUGE deal. points are precious. what if you lose the division, or miss the playoffs by a point? you don't think having Toews for that game might help get you an extra point?

just another notch in the very long belt of embarrassing things the NHL does IMO

As I was writing that I was thinking, "someone's going to point out that one game CAN make the difference." You're not wrong. But hockey is a team game, and teams play without their stars all the time. They know the rule (even if it's ridiculous, it's there), and they decide what they want to do. In the big scheme, losing one player - even a star - for one game shouldn't make or break a team. I know, you'll come back and argue that it can, and that's fine. I still like you.

Originally Posted by hailtopitt

but what, am i supposed to enjoy mandatory suspensions for players because they don't play in an exhibition? am i supposed to enjoy a perpetual cycle of cheap head shots and subsequent discipline that is laughable? am i supposed to enjoy a league that does not let it's stars be put on display, where the top points scorers are lucky to break the 90 point threshold?

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but isn't the ASG a way of putting stars on display?

EDIT: And don't get me wrong, the ASG - despite the improvements made this year - is still at the top of my least favorite NHL events list.

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

As I was writing that I was thinking, "someone's going to point out that one game CAN make the difference." You're not wrong. But hockey is a team game, and teams play without their stars all the time. They know the rule (even if it's ridiculous, it's there), and they decide what they want to do. In the big scheme, losing one player - even a star - for one game shouldn't make or break a team. I know, you'll come back and argue that it can, and that's fine. I still like you.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but isn't the ASG a way of putting stars on display?

EDIT: And don't get me wrong, the ASG - despite the improvements made this year - is still at the top of my least favorite NHL events list.

Hey I respect your opinion, I just think it's nuts to suspend guys for meaningful games because of this

And sure, the ASG is an exercise in displaying the league's talent, but again, it's in a game that means absolutely nothing.

I want my stars on display all year, not just in a 3-on-3 20 minute exhibition. I want rules that allow guys like Toews, Kane, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, McDavid, Seguin, Ovechkin, Tavares etc etc to be creative and free flowing. Yet with all of that talent we probably don't get a 100 point scorer again. Maybe 1 at the most. It's ridiculous.

[barbogast]

I say get rid of the actual game and just do the skills competition. That could be applied to all sports actually. In any league the least interesting part of all star weekend is the game itself.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by hailtopitt

I want my stars on display all year, not just in a 3-on-3 20 minute exhibition. I want rules that allow guys like Toews, Kane, Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, McDavid, Seguin, Ovechkin, Tavares etc etc to be creative and free flowing. Yet with all of that talent we probably don't get a 100 point scorer again. Maybe 1 at the most. It's ridiculous.

I agree that more creativity is fun, I'm just not convinced rule changes are the only thing that's going to help that. It's a huge conversation. I'm (honestly) interested in hearing your ideas for how the league can improve in this area.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by barbogast

I say get rid of the actual game and just do the skills competition. That could be applied to all sports actually. In any league the least interesting part of all star weekend is the game itself.

The Skills competition is definitely the highlight.

I mean, even Mrs. Fonzz will sit and watch the Skills Comp with me. She was mesmerized by Larkin breaking the record. Couldn't stop talking about it.

"I've never seen someone skate that fast!..."

[I ready myself to hit her]

"...Too bad he's a damn Red Wing"

[I lower my arm, begin to unzip my pants]

"But still... why can't YOU skate that fast?"

[I run away, weeping]

[barbogast]

I think a no brainer is go back to full length power plays. I personally love that idea. Goalie equipment shrinking is another good idea but a) the NHLPA will surely fight that hard and b) it would be difficult to enforce

[barbogast]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

The Skills competition is definitely the highlight.

I mean, even Mrs. Fonzz will sit and watch the Skills Comp with me. She was mesmerized by Larkin breaking the record. Couldn't stop talking about it.

"I've never seen someone skate that fast!..."

[I ready myself to hit her]

"...Too bad he's a damn Red Wing"

[I lower my arm, begin to unzip my pants]

"But still... why can't YOU skate that fast?"

[I run away, weeping]

Mrs Barbs always gets female wood from the hardest shot competition. She would never ever consider watching the actual game though.

[~Crashintome89~]

Just catching up from the rest of the weekend--

Usually teams will just have three assistants out there and no captain if the original captain is out. However, I do remember in the 90's a few times when Rod Brind'Amour wore the captain's C when Lindros was out, I assume this was done during his long-term injuries. So it's not like it's never been done before, but extremely rare.

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by hailtopitt

all of the other sports have to find replacements because guys just don't want to do it....people drop out of the MLB ASG left and right, and that decides home field in the freakin World Series! (which is a joke btw)

Because the system the MLB used before where it just switched off between the leagues from one year to the next was so serious and determined by vital results of that season?

[barbogast]

I've never understood why baseball was so weird about that. Although I think 2-3-2 ruins home field advantage anyway.

[SirBobalew]

Woah this got serious quick. I missed a bunch of posts in not a lot of time :-)

The Pro Bowl outrated the ASG because the NFL will outrate the NHL every. single. time. The Browns could play the Chiefs in Week 1 of the regular season and it would outrate Game 7 of the Cup Final (and yes, I know the timing doesn't work out). The Pro Bowl is still a joke, everyone opts out. The ASG is meaningless to some fans, but it's a showcase of the sport that shows the personalities of the players more than any other event of the year, and I can see why the league wants it to grow the fan base. I do think there should be an incentive for players to go, but I could be convinced that it should be monetary instead of the threat of suspension. If a player is legitimately injured, I think they give them a pass. I know Toews was legit sick, but he still played in the last game, so I guess that's why he's suspended, but it seems harsh. In Ovi's case, he knew that he'd be suspended if he skipped and chose to take the suspension. The players have a choice here. No one is forcing them to be suspended unless they choose to miss the ASG. But if there's no incentive for folks to go, then you get everyone opting out and you're left with second and third liners to fill 90% of the roster. Makes it much harder for the league to use it as a showcase to grow the fanbase. But I know many in here will just have to agree to disagree.

Hey, at least we all like hockey, right?

[Lcsulla]

Originally Posted by barbogast

Not without serving a one game suspension after the break is over

Cool, thanks for the quick answer. I was not sure.

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

I agree that more creativity is fun, I'm just not convinced rule changes are the only thing that's going to help that. It's a huge conversation. I'm (honestly) interested in hearing your ideas for how the league can improve in this area.

The game can still be better for sure but yeah rule changes won't do it all. The players are bigger, stronger and smarter than they have ever been and the coaches are smarter than ever too. They'll do whatever it takes to win. If that's the trap, new defensive systems, sitting back to get to a shootout like we've had before..Sure they could call more penalties but that's not really gonna make things better. More scoring? Maybe but I remember some games that had no flow cause they called a penalty every few minutes.

[SirBobalew]

Originally Posted by Lcsulla

Cool, thanks for the quick answer. I was not sure.

I believe I heard someone say they can also serve the suspension the game before the break if they so choose. So presumably if Toews hadn't played at all in the last game, he'd be eligible tonight.

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by barbogast

I say get rid of the actual game and just do the skills competition. That could be applied to all sports actually. In any league the least interesting part of all star weekend is the game itself.

agreed

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

Because the system the MLB used before where it just switched off between the leagues from one year to the next was so serious and determined by vital results of that season?

i never said that was good either

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

The game can still be better for sure but yeah rule changes won't do it all. The players are bigger, stronger and smarter than they have ever been and the coaches are smarter than ever too. They'll do whatever it takes to win. If that's the trap, new defensive systems, sitting back to get to a shootout like we've had before..Sure they could call more penalties but that's not really gonna make things better. More scoring? Maybe but I remember some games that had no flow cause they called a penalty every few minutes.

of course we still want flow in the game but i see clear cut interference and stick infractions go uncalled every night

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by fonzz41

I agree that more creativity is fun, I'm just not convinced rule changes are the only thing that's going to help that. It's a huge conversation. I'm (honestly) interested in hearing your ideas for how the league can improve in this area.

its not going to be an overnight fix whatsoever, but starting with smaller goalie pads and bigger nets is a nice jumping off point

i also think a stricter enforcement of common infractions would do wonders...this not only will increase power play chances, but it was also deter players from committing these infractions in the first place, which in turn, leads to a more wide open, creative game.

expanding replay even more could help as well. the NHL replay system is very quick and efficient for the most part so i don't see it extending game times very much. there are non-judgment call type penalties that go missed a lot that could be reviewed very quickly (high sticking, holding the stick & delay of game come to mind right away)

[coldengrey12]

I feel like the NHL is at least the most willing to change up its All-Star game format, between International vs. North America, fantasy draft style and now 3 on 3.

That helps keep me interested in what the NHL ASG is doing. I like its skills competitions, too.

Originally Posted by hailtopitt

i never said that was good either

Well, there we agree.

[TMoore4075]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

I feel like the NHL is at least the most willing to change up its All-Star game format, between International vs. North America, fantasy draft style and now 3 on 3.

That helps keep me interested in what the NHL ASG is doing. I like its skills competitions, too.



Well, there we agree.

Yeah I agree the NHL is at least trying to make it interesting. They are keeping it, I know, we all know it, and there is nothing we can do about it. I'd love for them to ax it but they won't. So if they aren't going to ax, changing it was much needed. Last year was 17-12 and guys weren't even skating and goalie weren't even trying. Yes it was gimmicky, yes it's just an exhibition, but it shot a little life into something that the NHL isn't going to get rid of..so if it's there, at least it's becoming more entertaining.

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by TMoore4075

Yeah I agree the NHL is at least trying to make it interesting. They are keeping it, I know, we all know it, and there is nothing we can do about it. I'd love for them to ax it but they won't. So if they aren't going to ax, changing it was much needed. Last year was 17-12 and guys weren't even skating and goalie weren't even trying. Yes it was gimmicky, yes it's just an exhibition, but it shot a little life into something that the NHL isn't going to get rid of..so if it's there, at least it's becoming more entertaining.

I absolutely agree. There were moments in this year's games that felt like they were all genuinely trying!

[barbogast]

Caps announce make up game dates, not that anyone except me and Bobalew care.

3/1 vs Pens
4/10 vs Ducks

Would just like to point out I called it with Ducks game being added to the end of the year.

Originally Posted by barbogast

I honestly think they'll tack the Ducks game onto the end of the season.

Yep, nailed it.