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Old 06-14-2017, 07:08 AM   #30091
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Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

Quote:
Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
Shooter reportedly was wearing running clothes and spoke to Rep Duncan and asked "are those Democrats or Republicans out there practicing?"

https://twitter.com/rebeccagberg/sta...64332693647360
An update to this, this account is now in question. Duncan reported the man who asked if they were Dems or Repubs was wearing "running clothes", Jeff Flake reported the gunman was wearing jeans
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  • Old 06-14-2017, 07:12 AM   #30092
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Anti government nut job would be my first guess based on gun and method.

    But who knows.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:13 AM   #30093
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Awful day. Thankfully it wasn't any worse.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:16 AM   #30094
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    I'm an independent...so I'm allowed to straddle the line

    Also, I take issue with your assertion that this will punish the poor. The more shitty, obesity, and cancer causing things you buy, the more you pay. Works the same for the rich and the poor. Also, I've said the money should be used for some combo of 3 things...1) paying for universal coverage or a public option 2) subsidizing healthy foods and 3) health education.

    I think universal coverage is the way to go, but find it objectionable that I'd have to pay for others poor choices. Sin tax is an easy way to ensure people pay for their own bad choices...one beer, cigarette, or bon bon at a time.
    You can take issue with that assertion but it's the truth. The poor are more likely to smoke, drink and engage in behaviors you deem to be "sinful". Due to that, this disproportionately impacts the people (the lower class) who engage in these behaviors. Also, it's questionable as to the extent with which these taxes actually control people's actions. In many cases, these are addictions, not habits.

    But ultimately it lets the left actually put it's authoritarian instincts into practice and allows them to feel better about themselves, regardless of actual outcomes.. and ultimately that's what matters.
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    Yeah fuck Kentucky.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:17 AM   #30095
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by YouNeverKnow25 View Post
    is softball practice a normal thing for adults to be doing at 7 in the morning? has nothing to do with the shooting but that just struck me as odd
    I think the better question may be: who needs to practice for a casual softball game?
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:18 AM   #30096
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    I know I'm focusing on the wrong thing here, but Trump actually had a good tweet in response to this: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...71795362897921
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:19 AM   #30097
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kydmb99 View Post
    You can take issue with that assertion but it's the truth. The poor are more likely to smoke, drink and engage in behaviors you deem to be "sinful". Due to that, this disproportionately impacts the people (the lower class) who engage in these behaviors. Also, it's questionable as to the extent with which these taxes actually control people's actions. In many cases, these are addictions, not habits.

    But ultimately it lets the left actually put it's authoritarian instincts into practice and allows them to feel better about themselves, regardless of actual outcomes.. and ultimately that's what matters.
    I'll give you smoking. But do you have data on drinking and sugar consumption? Also, if it changes behavior then great. Demand for healthcare goes way down and universal coverage is cheaper. If it doesn't change behavior, then we get revenue to pay for universal coverage. So kind of a win-win.

    As for the bolded...how about you try having an adult conversation for once?
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:20 AM   #30098
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rodey View Post
    I think the better question may be: who needs to practice for a casual softball game?
    Majority Whip has been shot and you ask this lmao
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:22 AM   #30099
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Shitty foods have more calories per dollar. If we want to change people's eating habits we need to subsidize healthy food that isn't so calorie dense and stop subsidizing things that are already calorie dense that are bad for us. Basically stop subsidizing corn. Good luck with that.

    I'm weary on more taxes on sins as the poor contribute already a greater percentage of their income to those things. However, I know that it'd probably lower drinking if taxes were raised. Booze is so cheap in America.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:22 AM   #30100
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kydmb99 View Post
    You can take issue with that assertion but it's the truth. The poor are more likely to smoke, drink and engage in behaviors you deem to be "sinful". Due to that, this disproportionately impacts the people (the lower class) who engage in these behaviors. Also, it's questionable as to the extent with which these taxes actually control people's actions. In many cases, these are addictions, not habits.

    But ultimately it lets the left actually put it's authoritarian instincts into practice and allows them to feel better about themselves, regardless of actual outcomes.. and ultimately that's what matters.
    Felt like I was reading something by Ron Paul: Nodding my head and agreeing with you until I read the second paragraph and I thought, "Oops. Stayed on the bus a stop too long."
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:25 AM   #30101
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    An update to this, this account is now in question. Duncan reported the man who asked if they were Dems or Repubs was wearing "running clothes", Jeff Flake reported the gunman was wearing jeans
    Didn't stop Kellyanne Conway from tweeting and jumping to conclusions right away, trying to make this partisan . No rational person on either side wants this. We're all Americans today
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:25 AM   #30102
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by coldengrey12 View Post
    I know I'm focusing on the wrong thing here, but Trump actually had a good tweet in response to this: https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...71795362897921
    The official White House statement was good too. It feels weird though to have the bar set so low that this deserves praise for his reaction. I'd also guess he didn't write it

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    Majority Whip has been shot and you ask this lmao
    I don't see an issue with making light humor to distract from a shitty and dark situation
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:30 AM   #30103
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by BTBaboon View Post
    The official White House statement was good too. It feels weird though to have the bar set so low that this deserves praise for his reaction. I'd also guess he didn't write it
    Gotta agree with all of that, sadly.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:34 AM   #30104
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    I'll give you smoking. But do you have data on drinking and sugar consumption? Also, if it changes behavior then great. Demand for healthcare goes way down and universal coverage is cheaper. If it doesn't change behavior, then we get revenue to pay for universal coverage. So kind of a win-win.

    As for the bolded...how about you try having an adult conversation for once?
    I know data has shown poor people are more likely to drink sugary beverages than middle and upper class people. I recall that being a point of contention when NYC was looking at a soda tax. Also, they have significantly less access to more expensive, healthy food choices. This is one of the big reasons they are more likely to be obese. I'm also pretty sure I have read that they tend to consume alcohol at a higher rate but I could be wrong there.

    Again, you have to actually prove that demand for healthcare will decrease because people will actually change their behavior. Also, it's obviously not a win-win for people who enjoy these things, which again are disproportionately poorer.

    Also, where does it stop? Who decides what is a "sin" and whether it's okay to take people's money because of their own personal choices? Aside from economics there are some pretty big questions about personal liberties here that shouldn't be taken lightly.

    Not being childish, just saying what I believe to be true in many cases.
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    Yeah fuck Kentucky.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:34 AM   #30105
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    I'm not sure how this trend ever ends well:

    "The world's millionaires, who represent the top 1 percent of the population, now own a record 45 percent of the global wealth and their share is growing, according to a new report."

    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/14/milli...s-growing.html
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:39 AM   #30106
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by kydmb99 View Post
    I know data has shown poor people are more likely to drink sugary beverages than middle and upper class people. I recall that being a point of contention when NYC was looking at a soda tax. Also, they have significantly less access to more expensive, healthy food choices. This is one of the big reasons they are more likely to be obese. I'm also pretty sure I have read that they tend to consume alcohol at a higher rate but I could be wrong there.

    Again, you have to actually prove that demand for healthcare will decrease because people will actually change their behavior. Also, it's obviously not a win-win for people who enjoy these things, which again are disproportionately poorer.

    Also, where does it stop? Who decides what is a "sin" and whether it's okay to take people's money because of their own personal choices? Aside from economics there are some pretty big questions about personal liberties here that shouldn't be taken lightly.

    Not being childish, just saying what I believe to be true in many cases.

    No one is taking away personal liberties. You can still eat/drink/smoke whatever the fuck you want. We're just saying that everyone gets health coverage. One of the ways we're going to pay for that coverage is to tax shit that we KNOW FOR A FACT drives up healthcare costs. It doesn't get any more common sense than that.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:49 AM   #30107
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Rodey View Post
    I think the better question may be: who needs to practice for a casual softball game?
    What a dumb and irrelevant question. How is this even remotely or tangentially related to what happened?
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:52 AM   #30108
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    The shooter is James T. Hodgkinson, 66, from Belleville, Illinois. That's in southwest lllinois. A suburb of St. Louis.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:53 AM   #30109
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Practicing softball sounds like fun. Why not practice softball?
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:55 AM   #30110
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    No one is taking away personal liberties. You can still eat/drink/smoke whatever the fuck you want. We're just saying that everyone gets health coverage. One of the ways we're going to pay for that coverage is to tax shit that we KNOW FOR A FACT drives up healthcare costs. It doesn't get any more common sense than that.


    Don't know why I even try. Taking more of people's money because they want to drink a Pepsi isn't an infringment on civil liberties. Never change marvich.
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    Yeah fuck Kentucky.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:55 AM   #30111
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    No one is taking away personal liberties. You can still eat/drink/smoke whatever the fuck you want. We're just saying that everyone gets health coverage. One of the ways we're going to pay for that coverage is to tax shit that we KNOW FOR A FACT drives up healthcare costs. It doesn't get any more common sense than that.

    Would support this completely. It is commom sense. It is merit based. Everyone can still do whatever they want. But if they want to go out of their way to live shittily, they have to pay more.

    Its merit based. Not sure why anyone would be against it.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:56 AM   #30112
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Tiduwho View Post
    Would support this completely. It is commom sense. It is merit based. Everyone can still do whatever they want. But if they want to go out of their way to live shittily, they have to pay more.

    Its merit based. Not sure why anyone would be against it.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:57 AM   #30113
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    I actually feel physically sick. fallout from this is worrisome for everybody
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    bills are paying the jags o-line coach 4 million this year.

    that will be a tough one for the aliens to figure out.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:57 AM   #30114
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    I'm an independent...so I'm allowed to straddle the line

    Also, I take issue with your assertion that this will punish the poor. The more shitty, obesity, and cancer causing things you buy, the more you pay. Works the same for the rich and the poor. Also, I've said the money should be used for some combo of 3 things...1) paying for universal coverage or a public option 2) subsidizing healthy foods and 3) health education.

    I think universal coverage is the way to go, but find it objectionable that I'd have to pay for others poor choices. Sin tax is an easy way to ensure people pay for their own bad choices...one beer, cigarette, or bon bon at a time.

    True to the bold, but study after study will show you that the poor are more likely to consume the sugary drinks and cigarettes, so ...
    It's a regressive tax.

    There are a number of reasons why our healthcare system is so expensive.
    Among the biggest reasons: administrative costs, waste, and we pay our providers more, we pay the hospitals more and we pay more for prescription drugs. Your sin tax isn't going to address that (though, I know you would argue for universal healthcare anyway, which may touch on some of those reasons). We also use, on average, more high-tech devices than other countries.

    I'm not a fan of sin taxes. I don't smoke, a drink only on occasion, and the only calories I drink are alcohol, so I'm not concerned about paying the tax.
    Fuck - I already pay 25% tax on alcohol just b/c I live in PA. You know, still paying for that flood that happened in Johnstown 100 years ago.
    What I don't like about sin taxes: it's regressive, and 99% of the time, the revenue doesn't go to the intended purposes. Philadelphia's doesn't go back into research or health care - it goes to pre-k education. Not saying that isn't a valid investment, but ...

    Additionally, people don't change their lifestyle because Pepsi has an extra tax. People aren't looking at that Pepsi right now as detrimental to their health. They don't see the affect of it for years.

    And, diet drinks would have to be included, since studies will show those are just as harmful to your health as a sugar drink. And, are we including things like yogurt? Because that shit is packed with sugar (and people think it's healthy!), unless you know what you are buying. Which is a huge part of the reason why I'd prefer to see incentives / reduction in prices for healthy food choices.

    I am a much bigger advocate for incentives that encourage a healthier lifestyle and choices than sin taxes. That's the better investment.
    Give incentives for preventive care, educate the consumer (to price shop, to avoid ER care unless it's actually an emergency, food choices, etc), incentives for exercise, etc.

    And before a sin tax is introduced, the gov't better get out of bed with Monsanto.


    Quote:
    Originally Posted by mdmarvich View Post
    I'll give you smoking. But do you have data on drinking and sugar consumption? Also, if it changes behavior then great. Demand for healthcare goes way down and universal coverage is cheaper. If it doesn't change behavior, then we get revenue to pay for universal coverage. So kind of a win-win.

    As for the bolded...how about you try having an adult conversation for once?
    Soda consumption is a lot higher among poor.
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/163997/re...ow-income.aspx

    Changing behavior is the better solution for the problem.

    Our food supply is horrendous. It is over processed, and nutrient poor.
    It is killing us. A sin tax isn't going to change that.

    https://www.princeton.edu/news/2010/...-syrup-prompts

    A Princeton University research team has demonstrated that all sweeteners are not equal when it comes to weight gain: Rats with access to high-fructose corn syrup gained significantly more weight than those with access to table sugar, even when their overall caloric intake was the same.

    In addition to causing significant weight gain in lab animals, long-term consumption of high-fructose corn syrup also led to abnormal increases in body fat, especially in the abdomen, and a rise in circulating blood fats called triglycerides. The researchers say the work sheds light on the factors contributing to obesity trends in the United States.


    http://www.nationalgeographic.com/pe...aking-us-fat-/

    What researchers learned about the link between consumption of subsidized foods and health was striking, if not surprising: People whose diets contained more subsidized foods tended to have worse health than those whose diets contained less. The people who ate the most subsidized food had a 41 percent greater risk of belly fat, 37 percent high risk of obesity, 34 percent higher risk for elevated inflammation, and 14 percent higher risk of abnormal cholesterol.


    Let's quit subsidizing poor, shitty, over processed food.
    Put that money towards healthcare costs. Or put it towards subsidizing healthy foods.

    But that's never going to happen.

    Last edited by mandy18; 06-14-2017 at 07:59 AM.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:57 AM   #30115
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Here's his twitter page: https://twitter.com/JTHInspections/with_replies .

    Based on those tweets he is not an anti government nut job and was targeting republicans.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 07:58 AM   #30116
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by cazzie34 View Post
    Here's his twitter page: https://twitter.com/JTHInspections/with_replies .

    Based on those tweets he is not an anti government nut job and was targeting republicans.
    a FB page with that name has bernie as the cover photo

    like I said, going to get very bad
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    bills are paying the jags o-line coach 4 million this year.

    that will be a tough one for the aliens to figure out.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 08:01 AM   #30117
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by thebridge15 View Post
    a FB page with that name has bernie as the cover photo

    like I said, going to get very bad
    It was an old white guy. Regardless of his politics I think the narrative of "crazy lone wolf" will still apply. It always does for white people. I don't think it'll get bad.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 08:02 AM   #30118
    Rodey
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by recentlyJTR41 View Post
    Majority Whip has been shot and you ask this lmao
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by M. Steng View Post
    What a dumb and irrelevant question. How is this even remotely or tangentially related to what happened?
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    Old 06-14-2017, 08:02 AM   #30119
    cazzie34
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    Here is Trump's first chance to respond to a crisis that is not of his own making. Let's see how he handles it.
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    Old 06-14-2017, 08:03 AM   #30120
    Rodey
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    Re: ** The Trump Thread SAFE SPACE ** (NO Personal Attacks; NO Trolling)

    The only way I could see it getting bad is if Easy D starts tweeting about how this guy was a Bernie supporter and a crazy lib out for Republican blood.
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