Boston Red Sox - Page 2258 - Antsmarching.org Forums - Dave Matthews Band Discussion
Old 07-23-2014, 04:53 PM   #67711
DMBstandUP1984
Seemingly Ranch
 
DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 95,579

Shows Seen: 34

DMB Hub Stubs: 12

My Tour Central Stats

Re: Boston Red Sox

so it is not his fault at all that he is 1-9?
__________________
"Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote

  • Want to hide all ads on Ants? Click here
  • Old 07-23-2014, 05:04 PM   #67712
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    1-9. 4.72 ERA. 20HRS (leads majors)

    i bought in to this run support argument until after last night by the way. how about the fact he has 1 win against AL teams since he joined the Red Sox? he is a mediocre below average pitcher.
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-23-2014, 07:04 PM   #67713
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    well that little run was fun while it lasted.
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 11:00 AM   #67714
    DavefaninNZ
     
    DavefaninNZ's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: Colorado
    Posts: 4,777

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 1

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984 View Post
    1-9. 4.72 ERA. 20HRS (leads majors)

    i bought in to this run support argument until after last night by the way. how about the fact he has 1 win against AL teams since he joined the Red Sox? he is a mediocre below average pitcher.
    Bolded is completely irrelevant.

    Here's something to chew on for 2014 stats:

    Starts of 3 runs or less (all 3 have 20 starts apiece):

    Lester -17
    Lackey - 15
    Peavy - 12

    Starts of 1 run or less:

    Lester - 10
    Lackey - 6
    Peavy - 5

    Starts of 5 runs or more:

    Lester - 2
    Lackey - 5
    Peavy - 7

    Innings Pitched:

    Lester: 137.0
    Lackey: 130.1
    Peavy: 124.0

    Quality Starts:

    Lester - 15
    Lackey - 14
    Peavy - 12

    Run Scored/Start (MLB rank in parentheses):

    Lester - 3.65 (73/94)
    Lackey - 4.95 (14/94)
    Peavy - 3.15 (89/94)

    As you can see, there isn't much of a drop off from Lackey to Peavy. There is a fairly significant difference between Lester and Peavy, but Peavy isn't a TOR pitcher like Lester. The Sox are scoring nearly 2 runs per game more in Lackey's starts than Peavy's. I have a feeling if the run support for Peavy and Lackey were switched, you'd probably be complaining about how terrible a pitcher Lackey is, because their W-L record would be completely different.

    Peavy is a decent mid-rotation starter, or a fairly good back end starter. He eats innings, stays healthy, and more often than not, keeps his team in the game. Using his win total as a gauge of how well he's pitching is an incomplete, one-sided view, and this case, the stats above give a more clear view as to what kind of pitcher he's been.
    __________________
    Andrew

    Last edited by DavefaninNZ; 07-24-2014 at 11:01 AM.
    DavefaninNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 11:04 AM   #67715
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Lackeys run support in 2013 3.76 not much better than Peavy and Lackey still managed to win 10 games. At least 4 times this season Sox offense got them back in the game by going ahead or tying when coming from behind only to have Peavy give up the go ahead run the very next inning
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 11:10 AM   #67716
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Those years of Beckett having a 2 something era and horrible run support and the years they did it with Pedro I can see your argument. But when someone is 1-9 with almost a 5 era the argument of run support is flakey at best. And even after all that I still don't think they should exactly trade him yet
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 11:11 AM   #67717
    DavefaninNZ
     
    DavefaninNZ's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: Colorado
    Posts: 4,777

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 1

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    Try not looking at 2014 win total. Would you agree that there isn't much of a difference between Peavy and Lackey?

    Edit: Let me reword that. Is there not much of a drop off between the two?
    __________________
    Andrew

    Last edited by DavefaninNZ; 07-24-2014 at 11:12 AM.
    DavefaninNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 11:14 AM   #67718
    DavefaninNZ
     
    DavefaninNZ's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: Colorado
    Posts: 4,777

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 1

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984 View Post
    Those years of Beckett having a 2 something era and horrible run support and the years they did it with Pedro I can see your argument. But when someone is 1-9 with almost a 5 era the argument of run support is flakey at best. And even after all that I still don't think they should exactly trade him yet
    So the argument works sometimes, but when its inconvenient for your argument, then it doesn't work? Ok, got it.
    __________________
    Andrew
    DavefaninNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 11:14 AM   #67719
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DavefaninNZ View Post
    So the argument works sometimes, but when its inconvenient for your argument, then it doesn't work? Ok, got it.
    It works when the pitcher has a better record of 1-9 and an era lower than 4.76
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 11:17 AM   #67720
    DavefaninNZ
     
    DavefaninNZ's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: Colorado
    Posts: 4,777

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 1

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    Based on the stats that I posted, do you think he's really pitched himself to a 1-9 record, or are there other factors at play?

    Edit: Also, the entire premise of run support is that it affects win total. If he had better run support, his record would be better than 1-9, which completely invalidates what you just said.
    __________________
    Andrew

    Last edited by DavefaninNZ; 07-24-2014 at 11:19 AM.
    DavefaninNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 12:23 PM   #67721
    rickyh24
    GOAT
     
    rickyh24's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2003
    Posts: 145,181

    Shows Seen: 76

    DMB Hub Stubs: 25

    My Tour Central Stats

    Still world champs.
    rickyh24 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 01:07 PM   #67722
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Well, bye Lester

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 01:08 PM   #67723
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rickyh24 View Post
    Still world champs.
    5 out of 6 years without a win in the playoffs #glasshalfempty
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 01:12 PM   #67724
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DavefaninNZ View Post
    Based on the stats that I posted, do you think he's really pitched himself to a 1-9 record, or are there other factors at play?

    Edit: Also, the entire premise of run support is that it affects win total. If he had better run support, his record would be better than 1-9, which completely invalidates what you just said.
    Sox lost 8-0 today. But since they scored zero runs De LA Rosa still wins?

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 01:27 PM   #67725
    DavefaninNZ
     
    DavefaninNZ's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: Colorado
    Posts: 4,777

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 1

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984 View Post
    Sox lost 8-0 today. But since they scored zero runs De LA Rosa still wins?

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    Haha, what? Are you really interpreting that out of what I said?
    __________________
    Andrew
    DavefaninNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 01:37 PM   #67726
    rickyh24
    GOAT
     
    rickyh24's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2003
    Posts: 145,181

    Shows Seen: 76

    DMB Hub Stubs: 25

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984 View Post
    5 out of 6 years without a win in the playoffs #glasshalfempty
    I'll take this stat is if means they get 3 rings during that decade.
    rickyh24 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 01:42 PM   #67727
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DavefaninNZ View Post
    Haha, what? Are you really interpreting that out of what I said?
    Well obviously not

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 01:53 PM   #67728
    pathetic
    Liberate a solid set!
     
    pathetic's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2007
    Location: East Coast Bias!
    Posts: 91,102

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 3

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    zOmG sell!!!!!
    pathetic is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 01:58 PM   #67729
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    They won't trade Lester but Sox fucked this up so bad. They could have signed him before the season started he wanted to sign. No way he stays here now

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 02:09 PM   #67730
    pathetic
    Liberate a solid set!
     
    pathetic's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2007
    Location: East Coast Bias!
    Posts: 91,102

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 3

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    i'm almost convinced they don't want him back for more than $100mil. it might sound dumb, but it's a stance they've taken since Theo left. if that's the case, they didn't fuck up at all. they're just stickign to their guns

    i don't agree with it. it's not like renaudo, de la rosa, webster, etc are going to be ace-caliber type pitchers right away. it took lester a few years to get there
    pathetic is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 02:13 PM   #67731
    DavefaninNZ
     
    DavefaninNZ's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2006
    Location: Colorado
    Posts: 4,777

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 1

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    I honestly don't think any of them ever will be. Hank has the best shot, maybe RDLR, but most scouting reports out there are in agreement hank will probably be a 3 at best.
    __________________
    Andrew
    DavefaninNZ is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 02:23 PM   #67732
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by pathetic View Post
    i'm almost convinced they don't want him back for more than $100mil. it might sound dumb, but it's a stance they've taken since Theo left. if that's the case, they didn't fuck up at all. they're just stickign to their guns

    i don't agree with it. it's not like renaudo, de la rosa, webster, etc are going to be ace-caliber type pitchers right away. it took lester a few years to get there
    So you're veteran pitcher next season is lackey? Worse they will probably end up throwing almost the same amount of money at a guy that isn't much different. But hasn't proved he can win here and in this market. I'm all for the kids but a team like the Red Sox can't pull that off. Too high profile too big a market. Obviously the Crawford, Gonzalez mess has scared the shit out of them.
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 02:26 PM   #67733
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    I think Lester would have gone with 5/25 at the start of the season

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-24-2014, 05:48 PM   #67734
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    Ortiz tweaks his back the day they have to fly allll the way to Florida and play again tomorrow and face David Price...how convenient

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-25-2014, 07:10 AM   #67735
    pathetic
    Liberate a solid set!
     
    pathetic's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2007
    Location: East Coast Bias!
    Posts: 91,102

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 3

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984 View Post
    So you're veteran pitcher next season is lackey? Worse they will probably end up throwing almost the same amount of money at a guy that isn't much different. But hasn't proved he can win here and in this market. I'm all for the kids but a team like the Red Sox can't pull that off. Too high profile too big a market. Obviously the Crawford, Gonzalez mess has scared the shit out of them.
    calm down

    i didn't say i agree with them. i said they're sticking to their guns. i think it's pretty obvious they don't want to give lester more than 100m
    pathetic is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-25-2014, 07:10 AM   #67736
    DMBstandUP1984
    Seemingly Ranch
     
    DMBstandUP1984's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Dec 2005
    Posts: 95,579

    Shows Seen: 34

    DMB Hub Stubs: 12

    My Tour Central Stats

    They should imo

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    __________________
    "Who's butterin' like a spoodledug?"
    DMBstandUP1984 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-25-2014, 07:11 AM   #67737
    pathetic
    Liberate a solid set!
     
    pathetic's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2007
    Location: East Coast Bias!
    Posts: 91,102

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 3

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984 View Post
    I think Lester would have gone with 5/25 at the start of the season

    Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk
    i don't think the sox would've offered that or will get there.

    that's more than a home-town discount though. that's leaving about 25-40mil on the table
    pathetic is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-25-2014, 07:19 AM   #67738
    rickyh24
    GOAT
     
    rickyh24's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Apr 2003
    Posts: 145,181

    Shows Seen: 76

    DMB Hub Stubs: 25

    My Tour Central Stats

    Will be so dumb if they let Lester walk.
    rickyh24 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-25-2014, 07:33 AM   #67739
    pathetic
    Liberate a solid set!
     
    pathetic's Avatar
     
    Join Date: Jul 2007
    Location: East Coast Bias!
    Posts: 91,102

    Shows Seen: 0

    DMB Hub Stubs: 3

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    if they let lester walk when they could've had him for 100-125mil i agree. at the end of the season that number won't be on the table. especially when teams will be throwing 160 at him.

    although, 5 years ago did anyone think lester wouldn't have a cy young by this point
    pathetic is offline   Reply With Quote
    Old 07-25-2014, 07:46 AM   #67740
    Ascf33
    Pure Class
     
    Join Date: Jul 2003
    Location: Raleigh, NC
    Posts: 42,920

    Shows Seen: 21

    DMB Hub Stubs: 9

    My Tour Central Stats

    Re: Boston Red Sox

    Don't worry. The Yankees will throw a nice 7 year deal at him with a few options. He'll win 25 games throughout the rest of his career with at least one season long DL stay.
    Ascf33 is offline   Reply With Quote
    Reply

    Tags
    mlb , red sox

    Thread Tools
    Display Modes

    Posting Rules
    You may not post new threads
    You may not post replies
    You may not post attachments
    You may not edit your posts

    BB code is On
    Smilies are On
    [IMG] code is Off
    HTML code is Off

    Forum Jump


    Want to hide all ads on Ants? Click here

    All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:02 PM.


    Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.14
    Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.


       
    Site LinksAbout AntsAnts MobileTweet Tweet
    Home
    Ants+
    Tour Central
    Search bar
    RSS Feeds
    About Us
    Contact Us
    The Ants Blog
    Advertise on Ants
    Privacy Policy
    Ants on your cell phone
    iAnts
    mobile news
    mobile setlists
    antslive!
    Ants' Twitter
    DMBLive Twitter
    Ants Facebook
    Ants Instagram