Home Plate Collisions

[cruscott35]

Originally Posted by M. Steng

Serious question, all jokes aside, have you ever played sports competitively?

Either way, what's with your vendetta against physical contact in professional sports? It's just strange.

Yes, I played varsity baseball, basketball, and football in high school.

As to what's with my 'vendetta' against physical contact in professional sports, I'm not sure I understand your question. If you are asking why I think children shouldn't play football, the reason is because they aren't adults and they aren't professionals. If you're asking why I think home plate collisions in baseball are dumb, it's many of the reasons that have been discussed in here, mainly that behavior isn't allowed at any other base.

[cruscott35]

Originally Posted by smokew11

this. and if he's not allowed to, how is he supposed to defend it?

imo home plate is like the end zone. catcher should do everything possible to block it, and the runner should do everything possible to get to it


i guess by cubs logic, he'd say the 30 yd line is just as important as the endzone, since you have to cross it to get there

The same way the second baseman, short stop, or third baseman defends their base on a non force play.

[dontdrink36]

Originally Posted by smokew11

this. and if he's not allowed to, how is he supposed to defend it?

imo home plate is like the end zone. catcher should do everything possible to block it, and the runner should do everything possible to get to it


i guess by cubs logic, he'd say the 30 yd line is just as important as the endzone, since you have to cross it to get there

I guess they could put in a catcher box he has to be in to make a tag or he can't be past a certain portion of the plate before he gets the ball. And is this reviewable? Because that's an awful lot for the ump to judge in that timeframe.

And how many true collisions are there anyway? I mean it's not a rare thing but it's certainly not an every game thing.

[cruscott35]

The catcher wears body armor to protect against balls, not players.

[cruscott35]

Oh, it is pretty rare, which is why people defending this as 'part of the game' is kinda silly.

[uro55]

[dontdrink36]

Originally Posted by cruscott35

Oh, it is pretty rare, which is why people defending this as 'part of the game' is kinda silly.

It's not silly it IS part of the game. The debate is whether is should be.

[cruscott35]

Originally Posted by dontdrink36

It's not silly it IS part of the game. The debate is whether is should be.

Well, it won't be much longer, so there goes that.

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by cruscott35

The same way the second baseman, short stop, or third baseman defends their base on a non force play.

but its not any other base. 2nd and 3rd are easy to protect because you can't run through it. The fielder just has to place a foot or knee there, cuz the runner cant slide around it.

Home and 1st are different. We see 2nd basement covering 1st in bunt situations get accidentally run into relatively often because 1) they dont position themselves right, and 2) the runner doesn't give a fuck if he runs through the fielder because you just have to touch the base, not stay on it

there's no incentive for a 3B to block 3rd because nobody is going to run through him. The catcher has every reason to completely block the plate because you just have to touch it, not stay on it

[ExistenceNow]

I don't think it's a significant enough problem to warrant a change.

Plus, I think both players involved in the collision can choose whether or not to participate in it. It's not like a defenseless receiver. If the catcher doesn't want to be collided with, he can choose not to block the plate. If the runner doesn't want to collide, he can try to dive around/jump over or just take the out.

[hbktonyb]

I would be curious to see the injury statistics as to why they want to do this...not to necessarily discount it, because I'm genuinely curious. It really doesn't seem like something that happens too often and I watch a lot of baseball.

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by ExistenceNow

I don't think it's a significant enough problem to warrant a change.

Plus, I think both players involved in the collision can choose whether or not to participate in it. It's not like a defenseless receiver. If the catcher doesn't want to be collided with, he can choose not to block the plate. If the runner doesn't want to collide, he can try to dive around/jump over or just take the out.

i agree with everything about this post

instead of outlawing collisions, why not enforce obstruction? you dont see 2nd basemen standing 2 feet to the right of 2b facing down the runner, do you?

[uro55]

Originally Posted by hbktonyb

I would be curious to see the injury statistics as to why they want to do this...not to necessarily discount it, because I'm genuinely curious. It really doesn't seem like something that happens too often and I watch a lot of baseball.

That's what I've also wanted to know. In a century plus of baseball how much has this been an issue?

[drop2d]

Originally Posted by cruscott35

Same reason reports of sexual assault have gone up in the military lately despite all the training, people are more comfortable reporting them.

As far as your stats, here is the 22% number. Don't know the specifics behind the report, admittedly.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...64f040cb2.html

Yeah.. The 22% on its own doesn't mean shit unfortunately. That could mean 9 guys had concussions and 2 of them were from collisions.

I'm not 100% against a change... I just don't see why it's necessary especially if there's no real numbers to back it up.

[dontdrink36]

Originally Posted by cruscott35

Well, it won't be much longer, so there goes that.

The debate isn't over it's the point of the thread. And just cause it's against the rules doesn't mean it won't happen. Ex: head to head hits in football.

My position on this is that in MLB it should be legal. They are abuts and professionals they know the risk. It should be banned for an auteurs and kids though to protect them. But pros in all sports know the risk and should be able to play how they see fit.

[scrock25]

Agreed... is there even one ML'er openly advocating for this change?

[smokew11]

So who gets punished if the runners goes into the catcher, but the catcher is standing a foot from the plate up the 2rd base line staring down the runner?

[cruscott35]

Originally Posted by scrock25

Agreed... is there even one ML'er openly advocating for this change?

Two of the loudest advocates are managers who are former catchers. I'm sure Posey in in favor of it. Avila probably is too. I'd guess most catchers are.

If I was a GM I wouldn't allow my catcher to block the plate.

[cruscott35]

Originally Posted by smokew11

So who gets punished if the runners goes into the catcher, but the catcher is standing a foot from the plate up the 2rd base line staring down the runner?

Up the 3rd base line? Wouldn't the rule be slide or surrender like little league?

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by cruscott35

Two of the loudest advocates are managers who are former catchers. I'm sure Posey in in favor of it. Avila probably is too. I'd guess most catchers are.

If I was a GM I wouldn't allow my catcher to block the plate.

most catchers dont. thats why its not a big enough deal to make a rule about. if your catcher wants to be a hero, thats his problem

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by cruscott35

Up the 3rd base line? Wouldn't the rule be slide or surrender like little league?

yes, up the line, where most catchers tend to stand if they are gonna block it


so a catcher can stand there a foot off the plate, effectively making it impossible to reach, and the runner's only choice is to slide or surrender? great idea.

maybe if he stands there it should just be obstruction like it would be at any other base

[cruscott35]

Originally Posted by smokew11

yes, up the line, where most catchers tend to stand if they are gonna block it


so a catcher can stand there a foot off the plate, effectively making it impossible to reach, and the runner's only choice is to slide or surrender? great idea.

maybe if he stands there it should just be obstruction like it would be at any other base

Agreed, blocking the baseline should be obstruction. Next concern.

Also, the rule is slide or surrender at other bases, is it not? What else can you do? You can't barrel into the 2nd baseman. You slide or give up or go back, same way you could at home.

[dontdrink36]

Originally Posted by cruscott35

Up the 3rd base line? Wouldn't the rule be slide or surrender like little league?

Slide or surrender? C'mon man! These are grown men and professionals. If they want to change the rule that's fine but you can't elimate contact at the plate all together.

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by cruscott35

Agreed, blocking the baseline should be obstruction. Next concern.

but its not called. so thats the point. you don't have to be a patronizing child.

there's no need for this rule. collisions are few and far between, and frankly its old school baseball. the runner wants the plate, the catcher isn't gonna let him have it. THAT is sports.

[uro55]

More catchers have been hurt by foul balls, I'm assuming we should ban those too?

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by cruscott35

Agreed, blocking the baseline should be obstruction. Next concern.

Also, the rule is slide or surrender at other bases, is it not? What else can you do? You can't barrel into the 2nd baseman. You slide or give up or go back, same way you could at home.

I'd assume you can absolutely do that. But what's the end game? You can't run through 2nd like you can at 1st or home. just so i dont have to repeat myself, here's what i posted 10 mins ago

but its not any other base. 2nd and 3rd are easy to protect because you can't run through it. The fielder just has to place a foot or knee there, cuz the runner cant slide around it.

Home and 1st are different. We see 2nd basement covering 1st in bunt situations get accidentally run into relatively often because 1) they dont position themselves right, and 2) the runner doesn't give a fuck if he runs through the fielder because you just have to touch the base, not stay on it

there's no incentive for a 3B to block 3rd because nobody is going to run through him. The catcher has every reason to completely block the plate because you just have to touch it, not stay on it

[uro55]

"By the rules of baseball, a runner has the right to an unobstructed path to a base. However, this right is not granted if the fielder guarding the base possesses the ball or is in the process of catching the ball."

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by uro55

More catchers have been hurt by foul balls, I'm assuming we should ban those too?

sigging this

I vote that we ban walls in the outfield. Can you imagine how many more games Griffey could have played if it wasn't for walls?

[cruscott35]

Originally Posted by smokew11

I'd assume you can absolutely do that. But what's the end game? You can't run through 2nd like you can at 1st or home. just so i dont have to repeat myself, here's what i posted 10 mins ago

but its not any other base. 2nd and 3rd are easy to protect because you can't run through it. The fielder just has to place a foot or knee there, cuz the runner cant slide around it.

Home and 1st are different. We see 2nd basement covering 1st in bunt situations get accidentally run into relatively often because 1) they dont position themselves right, and 2) the runner doesn't give a fuck if he runs through the fielder because you just have to touch the base, not stay on it

there's no incentive for a 3B to block 3rd because nobody is going to run through him. The catcher has every reason to completely block the plate because you just have to touch it, not stay on it

Oh, I wouldn't be upset with incidental contact at all. Home plate collisions aren't incidental though, they are intentional. I'm glad they'll be gone, they bring nothing to the game.

[uro55]

Originally Posted by smokew11

sigging this

I vote that we ban walls in the outfield. Can you imagine how many more games Griffey could have played if it wasn't for walls?

Oh and pitching too, how many games have we lost to Tommy John surgery