A Game of Thrones (HBO Series)

[junior94]

I will agree with many others at least and say that the direwolf's death seemed very wasted. Not really all that much of a great sacrifice for what they got out of it in the moment.

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

You must've missed the part where I said ...

I come back to the fact that the show has not established the rules well enough for this. Namely, that one of the first things 3ER told Bran should've been, "If you see White Walkers, get the fuck outta dodge and don't let them touch you."

And, to repeat, on a show/book series where it has stressed the finality of life and the consequences of making decisions both good and bad, to open up the kit that says "Everything can be undone!" just messes with stuff in a way I don't care for.

I did originally miss that, my bad

- I dont think the raven knew that would happen. Its clear that Bran AND the WW have powers we dont yet know about

- that didn't happen at all. Bran being in the past didn't change anything

[DMBstandUP1984]

i love how they spent 15mins on that play, but 30seconds on how/why white walkers were created.

[ryguy469]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

If Bran was born after Wylis but can greensee his way back in time to before he was born and make him into Hodor, why doesn't he go back and warg into Jaime before he pushes him out of a window? Or warg into Roose Bolton and call off the Red Wedding

I feel like you're totally forgetting that Bran cannot warg into just anyone. The first time he wargs into Hodor, there is a discussion about how it must only be possible because he is a simpleton and his mind is closer to an animal than a human.

"Wargs cannot easily enter the minds of other humans to control their actions, though few even attempt it. Bran Stark, with no prior experience at warging, was able to enter the mind of another human, demonstrating his powerful innate abilities. The human whose mind he entered, however, was Hodor, a mentally challenged man, and as yet no warg has been seen totally taking over the mind of another person who possesses full adult mental capacities."

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by junior94

I will agree with many others at least and say that the direwolf's death seemed very wasted. Not really all that much of a great sacrifice for what they got out of it in the moment.

I was of course thinking this too. Like, really? THAT's how you're going to send off Summer, the wolf who arguably has the deepest connection with his "designated" Stark child?

Then I realized, he was killed by wights in a cave where white walkers were walking around. How even more tragic is Bran's arc gonna get when Summer, the wolf who's skin Bran wore on so many occasions, comes back as a wight to kill him?

[thebridge15]

Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984

i love how they spent 15mins on that play, but 30seconds on how/why white walkers were created.

I thought the play was really well done. considering arya was actually there for most of that, it's interesting to see her see how the rest of the world thinks about kings landing

[jmkratt]

Originally Posted by thebridge15

I know they're absent source material but I thought the dialogue from the past couple of episodes has been excellent. some of the best in a long while

I absolutely agree.

Originally Posted by junior94

I will agree with many others at least and say that the direwolf's death seemed very wasted. Not really all that much of a great sacrifice for what they got out of it in the moment.

Yeah that sucked.

Re-watching the episode last night it was hard to watch starting with Summer's death and onto the Wylis seizing/becoming Hodor and Hodor dying.

[DMBstandUP1984]

Originally Posted by thebridge15

I thought the play was really well done. considering arya was actually there for most of that, it's interesting to see her see how the rest of the world thinks about kings landing

Yea I like how Arya was like LOL.....wait, what, that's my dad....

[mr. testaverde]

Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984

Yea I like how Arya was like LOL.....wait, what, that's my dad....

yeah she was basically playing the role of herself in that play. watching her dad, from the crowd, get executed. pretty intense

[DMBstandUP1984]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/2016...1f7b663701.jpg ha!

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by junior94

I will agree with many others at least and say that the direwolf's death seemed very wasted. Not really all that much of a great sacrifice for what they got out of it in the moment.

agreed

i thought the same thing about the Greenseer who allowed herself to get stabbed to death while Bran was escaping

like, you have a fire bomb in your hand, why not just throw it and keep helping them instead of becoming a pin cushion?

[Julia Roberts]

Summer's sacrifice bought time for Bran and Meera to escape. It was the same sacrifice made by COTF girl and Hodor. I think you're actually saying that there wasn't enough pause for dramatic effect with slow motion and stirring music and maybe a flashback montage to Summer as a puppy.

[hailtopitt]

Originally Posted by Julia Roberts

Summer's sacrifice bought time for Bran and Meera to escape. It was the same sacrifice made by COTF girl and Hodor. I think you're actually saying that there wasn't enough pause for dramatic effect with slow motion and stirring music and maybe a flashback montage to Summer as a puppy.

yea but simply detonating the fire bomb would've bought time as the fire would deter the walkers

again, there was no need for her to die there

[mr. testaverde]

Originally Posted by Julia Roberts

Summer's sacrifice bought time for Bran and Meera to escape. It was the same sacrifice made by COTF girl and Hodor. I think you're actually saying that there wasn't enough pause for dramatic effect with slow motion and stirring music and maybe a flashback montage to Summer as a puppy.

[trd1610]

Originally Posted by bmt322

This question needs to be answered. I'll try to answer...



The whole warg sequence had to be messed up. Does it have something to do with holding the tree branch? Meera pulled Bran off the tree during the vision. So Bran is stuck in his vision?, and his only way to get into Hodor's mind was through the Hodor in his vision. (This is based on the assumption that Bran warged Hodor, and that Hodor did not hold the door on his own). He had to cheat his way and sacrifice Hodor. Normally, Bran would be in the present and warg through the present.



Please correct me if I'm wrong. I need to go back and watch this again. I was so numb I didn't even realize Hodor was dying. Fuck.

I don't think it has to do with being in contact with the tree, I don't think he was actually holding a branch in that scene, I may have to look again. While bran may have needed the tree at first, greenseeing isn't limited to the use of a weirwood tree, i.e. Jojen had the sight and saw visions of the future which led him to bran, and also warned him about Theon coming, and when the Walkers find out about the cave I think the 3ER was uploading/teaching bran as much as he could, including the ability to do it without the tree.

What's key is that the "hold the door" line from Meera, it's what she's shouting in the present. And while Bran and the three eyed Raven can hear her, the other people in the past can't hear that.

So because Bran was already warging/greenseeing into the past, when he tried to warg Hodor again from the past something obviously went wrong. At first maybe bran was in control of present day Hodor as they escaped the cave, but then in the past when Wilas' eyes go white just before he has his hodor fit, I think he accidentally sent Wilas' consciousness into older Hodor. Otherwise how else does he get the "hold the door" line? Wilas' conscious holding the door in future Hodor's body and experiencing his own death, while hearing Meera shout "hold the door" traumatized Wilas forever.

[trd1610]

Originally Posted by hailtopitt

yea but simply detonating the fire bomb would've bought time as the fire would deter the walkers



again, there was no need for her to die there

Agreed. Both the Summer sacrifice and Leaf sacrifice were pretty unnecessary, Summer slowed them down for all of two seconds, he could've just run with them, and Leaf should've just thrown the fire ball. It would have had the same effect, but I guess it's a little poetic in that she/they created the WW and now she's sacrificing herself so that Bran can escape and potentially help save mankind from them. Another thing down that kind of poetic lane, Summer is dead and now Winter has come.

[fonzz41]

Originally Posted by trd1610

I don't think it has to do with being in contact with the tree, I don't think he was actually holding a branch in that scene, I may have to look again. While bran may have needed the tree at first, greenseeing isn't limited to the use of a weirwood tree, i.e. Jojen had the sight and saw visions of the future which led him to bran, and also warned him about Theon coming, and when the Walkers find out about the cave I think the 3ER was uploading/teaching bran as much as he could, including the ability to do it without the tree.

What's key is that the "hold the door" line from Meera, it's what she's shouting in the present. And while Bran and the three eyed Raven can hear her, the other people in the past can't hear that.

So because Bran was already warging/greenseeing into the past, when he tried to warg Hodor again from the past something obviously went wrong. At first maybe bran was in control of present day Hodor as they escaped the cave, but then in the past when Wilas' eyes go white just before he has his hodor fit, I think he accidentally sent Wilas' consciousness into older Hodor. Otherwise how else does he get the "hold the door" line? Wilas' conscious holding the door in future Hodor's body and experiencing his own death, while hearing Meera shout "hold the door" traumatized Wilas forever.

Yes. And this actually kinda fits with some of Bran'd observations in ADWD about what it's like being in Hodor's mind.

[coldengrey12]

Originally Posted by smokew11

I did originally miss that, my bad

It's all good.

Originally Posted by ryguy469

I feel like you're totally forgetting that Bran cannot warg into just anyone. The first time he wargs into Hodor, there is a discussion about how it must only be possible because he is a simpleton and his mind is closer to an animal than a human.

I did forget about that.

Pure speculation, but perhaps as Bran becomes more powerful, he'll have the ability to become other humans?

Or, since the show established that dragons are intelligent, maybe he becomes powerful enough to warg one? That could be pretty useful to wipe out a bunch of wights.

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by junior94

well, they are coming down the home stretch of the series, after all. I feel like it's perfectly natural to have an increase in the progression of the "OMG moments", as you call them. You're at a point now where you're starting to pay off things more than you're really just setting them up.

I guess, it just seems kinda forced. I dunno, might just be me. Not saying the show is bad now or anything, it just makes me more conscious of the like human intent behind the story, if that makes sense. Which, obviously all fiction has that, as it's fiction but I think there's a fine line between writing to serve the story and writing to serve the viewer.

Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984

i love how they spent 15mins on that play, but 30seconds on how/why white walkers were created.

Hey, we had to see those amazing tits!

[DMBstandUP1984]

haha i didn't have a problem with the play scene, i just thought it was funny the way they broke up the time between the two scenes

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984

haha i didn't have a problem with the play scene, i just thought it was funny the way they broke up the time between the two scenes

Yea, I agree. I guess it just had to show that what's her face isn't as close to being a nobody as she thinks. A true nobody wouldn't care about how an actor portrays Ned Stark.

[ryguy469]

Originally Posted by coldengrey12

It's all good.



I did forget about that.

Pure speculation, but perhaps as Bran becomes more powerful, he'll have the ability to become other humans?

Or, since the show established that dragons are intelligent, maybe he becomes powerful enough to warg one? That could be pretty useful to wipe out a bunch of wights.

3ER did promise Bran he would fly after all...

[Kevtalia]

Originally Posted by DMBstandUP1984

haha i didn't have a problem with the play scene, i just thought it was funny the way they broke up the time between the two scenes

Those tits though. Thank you AM for finding Eline Powell. I knew you would deliver

[DMBstandUP1984]

she hasn't done much else, but i look forward to her future endeavors.

[justink]

my buddy's take on the bran situation...

Ok so Nerd alert. This is all just my opinion not sure if this is right but this is what I think they are setting up with Bran. It seems to mirror what happens in the terminator in that everything that has already happened or will happen is because of time manipulation of the past which will occurr in the future. It is a paradox i.e. a casual time loop. The power to greensee and warg are powers which are exclusive to the children of the forest. These gifts exist in the world of men as result of mixed breeding long ago. My guess is bran inherited from the children of the forest. My guess is Bran's lineage comes from the long ago offspring of Bran the builder and a child of the forest. He has the power to observe the past and to take control of the minds of other living beings. If you attempt manipulate time or warg into anyone while in the past it will set off ripples with disastrous consequences to those you manipulate and any timeline going foward. Which means that everything that has happened may be a result of him trying to manipulate the past. All of this started because the mad King burned Ned Stark's father and brother which was the inciting incident which made Robert's rebellion into an all out war. My guess was prior to this event Areys was a reasonable and magnetic but something happened that changed him completely forever. The mad King had a habit of murdering & burning people and would obsessively repeat "Burn them all" especially near the end of his life. He became this way because of Bran. So we may see Bran attempt to go back and warn Arey's to burn the walkers north of the wall before the numbers could grow. But manipulating the past by suggestion and warging into people in the past not only has a negative effect on time but is has a negative effect on the mind of that person from that point forward. It seems that time manipulation by suggestion will cause psychosis while warging causes retardation. So his suggestion for Areys to murder the walkers north of the wall by burning them all warps Areys' mind into psychotic madness and all he can remember of Bran's suggestion is to kill and burn them all beginning with those from the North. Not sure if any of this is right though.

[thebridge15]

I'm mainly against bran causing aerys madness because aerys saying "burn them all" was actually a legitimate reaction to what was happening at the time. he had partially (along with rhaegar, mostly) caused the destruction of his house which had ruled for hundreds of years. so as tywin and the lannisters are closing in, it's an understandable reaction for him to think "fuck this, if I'm going down I'm taking all of king's landing down with me"

he had already used fire in numerous situations including killing ned's father and brother. I just think it makes him more interesting of a character if he was eccentric and arrogant and psycho, rather than "oh bran did it"

[junior94]

Originally Posted by zajDmB1

Yea, I agree. I guess it just had to show that what's her face isn't as close to being a nobody as she thinks. A true nobody wouldn't care about how an actor portrays Ned Stark.

thing is, and granted maybe I'm waaaaaaay off on this, but had anyone else gotten the impression that there was supposedly this sort of nobility to the Faceless Men? that with their "work", they were slowly but surely helping to properly right the world or something? Because, this turn of events would pretty much blow that bits, that ultimately they simply kill the mark for whoever happens to be paying the bill.
I think maybe at least Arya had had this notion in mind... ? in which case this is sort of a disallusionment for her.

[zajDmB1]

Originally Posted by junior94

thing is, and granted maybe I'm waaaaaaay off on this, but had anyone else gotten the impression that there was supposedly this sort of nobility to the Faceless Men? that with their "work", they were slowly but surely helping to properly right the world or something? Because, this turn of events would pretty much blow that bits, that ultimately they simply kill the mark for whoever happens to be paying the bill.
I think maybe at least Arya had had this notion in mind... ? in which case this is sort of a disallusionment for her.

I think that brief conversation alluded to a "noble" cause. The one where Arya is told she can never be one of them, because she was born into royalty and all the faceless men have been slaves/poor/etc, so I think that's the idea she is being sold on.

Whether that turns out to be true or they are just another crazy cult is the reveal that whole story line is leading up to. I have a feeling it will lead to her being told to kill someone she would not want to kill..

[ryguy469]

Originally Posted by thebridge15

I'm mainly against bran causing aerys madness because aerys saying "burn them all" was actually a legitimate reaction to what was happening at the time. he had partially (along with rhaegar, mostly) caused the destruction of his house which had ruled for hundreds of years. so as tywin and the lannisters are closing in, it's an understandable reaction for him to think "fuck this, if I'm going down I'm taking all of king's landing down with me"

he had already used fire in numerous situations including killing ned's father and brother. I just think it makes him more interesting of a character if he was eccentric and arrogant and psycho, rather than "oh bran did it"

I know I've been providing many a counterpoint to why the Bran thing isn't as bad as you think, but I want to reiterate if the Mad King becomes oh it was just Bran whispering to him I am going to have an epic melt. There is no way they do that, it's too stupid.

[thebridge15]

Originally Posted by ryguy469

I know I've been providing many a counterpoint to why the Bran thing isn't as bad as you think, but I want to reiterate if the Mad King becomes oh it was just Bran whispering to him I am going to have an epic melt. There is no way they do that, it's too stupid.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...f6bd0c73dd.jpg