Chicago shootings

[Jake]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Games aside, in his post, taken in the context of other posts, the use of the words "these" and "they" clearly refers to black neighborhood and black people.

Not sure if the post was racist or not. I found it more uncaring. If not giving a shit about large groups of blacks is racist than maybe it is.

Also, have you noticed all of the "perceptions" you keep mentioning about Chicago no one else shares? Could what you precieve be incorrect?

if you have the ability to read Gocubs mind, there's about a billion people who need your services.




this is so dumb... people acting like Chicago is Beverly Fucking Hills

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by Jake

this is so dumb... people acting like Chicago is Beverly Fucking Hills

I don't really even like Chicago. Lived here my whole life.

But it can be a great city, I understand why some love it so much, it's just not for me.

[Jake]

Originally Posted by lockman21

I don't really even like Chicago. Lived here my whole life.

But it can be a great city, I understand why some love it so much, it's just not for me.

funny thing is I like Chicago too

[gocubsgo3822]

Chicago is a great city. But you just need to know not where to go. I would venture to guess that I would feel safer in North Korea. Then certain parts of Chicago. And I am a loud obnoxious American.

[Climb2safety]

Yeah. Safety is not Chicago's or the USs strong suit. People from other countries come here to be less safe all the time.

[Kevaroo]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Games aside, in his post, taken in the context of other posts, the use of the words "these" and "they" clearly refers to black neighborhood and black people.

Not sure if the post was racist or not. I found it more uncaring. If not giving a shit about large groups of blacks is racist than maybe it is.

Also, have you noticed all of the "perceptions" you keep mentioning about Chicago no one else shares? Could what you precieve be incorrect?

If you're not caring about large groups of people because they black, that is racist.

Just because someone doesn't care about a person(s) and they happen to be black doesn't mean racism is involved.

[rmp207]

I don't think you can just say "Well no use helping them they won't change" but, I also don't think everyone will take a better opportunity. I have a large problem with Al Sharpton and rev Jackson, they are two "community leaders" who stoke racism and the us against them mentality. They have no wish to look within a community, and point the finger at themselves and say hey maybe we need to change our base thinking.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur

Just....wow. So so wrong.

It is. When you have generation after generation who make decisions to not take advantage of everything that is offered, what is it? As others have mentioned, a large fraction on Chicago's south side refuse to go to school, apply for grants, or any other social program, what is it? Generation after generation of bad luck? You can make excuses forever, which appears to be your forte.

[gocubsgo3822]

Originally Posted by rconverse

It is. When you have generation after generation who make decisions to not take advantage of everything that is offered, what is it? As others have mentioned, a large fraction on Chicago's south side refuse to go to school, apply for grants, or any other social program, what is it? Generation after generation of bad luck? You can make excuses forever, which appears to be your forte.

bingo... eventually you can only blame the man so much and actually have to take responsibility for your own personal actions.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by rconverse

It is. When you have generation after generation who make decisions to not take advantage of everything that is offered, what is it? As others have mentioned, a large fraction on Chicago's south side refuse to go to school, apply for grants, or any other social program, what is it? Generation after generation of bad luck? You can make excuses forever, which appears to be your forte.

It's how they're raised. You can't blame the kids for how their parents are raising them - thats pretty unfair to them. They grow up on the streets with crime all around them, so thats just what they know. Thats life for them.

I didn't grow up to become a farmer. Thats because I lived in the suburbs and both of my parents had white collar jobs. They both went to college then started their carriers. I did the same because that is what I know. I know nothing of the farming lifestyle because I wasn't raised around it.

It's the same principle.

[cazzie34]

Originally Posted by Arby

It's how they're raised. You can't blame the kids for how their parents are raising them - thats pretty unfair to them. They grow up on the streets with crime all around them, so thats just what they know. Thats life for them.

I didn't grow up to become a farmer. Thats because I lived in the suburbs and both of my parents had white collar jobs. They both went to college then started their carriers. I did the same because that is what I know. I know nothing of the farming lifestyle because I wasn't raised around it.

It's the same principle.

Yeah but 5 year olds should realize what bad lifestyle choices their parents are making and pull themselves up by their bootstraps and start taking their education seriously otherwise they will fall behind their peers.

I mean, come on, personal accountability.

/sarcasm.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by rconverse

It is. When you have generation after generation who make decisions to not take advantage of everything that is offered, what is it? As others have mentioned, a large fraction on Chicago's south side refuse to go to school, apply for grants, or any other social program, what is it? Generation after generation of bad luck? You can make excuses forever, which appears to be your forte.

The answer to your questions is found in having a better underesting of life in the ghetto. Some people are able to do what you say and make it and get out but they are the minority and so the problem persists.

I am sure a ton of poor folks would jump at the opportunity to get an education IF someone paid their bills, gave them transportation, brought them clothes, watched their kids, put food on their tables at night, could guarantee them that once they graduated they could find a job.

And once they got that job, that a less qualified person would not be promoted before them only because the other person was white.

[FromTheMorning]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,3596968.story

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Arby

It's how they're raised. You can't blame the kids for how their parents are raising them - thats pretty unfair to them. They grow up on the streets with crime all around them, so thats just what they know. Thats life for them.

I didn't grow up to become a farmer. Thats because I lived in the suburbs and both of my parents had white collar jobs. They both went to college then started their carriers. I did the same because that is what I know. I know nothing of the farming lifestyle because I wasn't raised around it.

It's the same principle.

Right. The parents and children continue to make poor choices, generation after generation. You can sugarcoat it all you want but that's what's happening.

You make it sound like these kids and parents grow up in a far off land with no TV, Internet or social interaction. By the age of 16, you know right from wrong, regardless of where or how you grew up. You know there are better lives out there than gang life, dealing, "hustling", etc...

I'm sure that none of these people of which we're speaking have EVER heard of holding down a job, going to school, etc... I mean, how could they? All they know is the streets!!! (Honestly, put in context, it's really, really silly.)

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

The answer to your questions is found in having a better underesting of life in the ghetto. Some people are able to do what you say and make it and get out but they are the minority and so the problem persists.

I am sure a ton of poor folks would jump at the opportunity to get an education IF someone paid their bills, gave them transportation, brought them clothes, watched their kids, put food on their tables at night, could guarantee them that once they graduated they could find a job.

And once they got that job, that a less qualified person would not be promoted before them only because the other person was white.

Well, Jesus Christ dude. Can I set the table in any other fashion? I mean, if that's what it takes for someone to even contemplate looking for a job or go to school, no wonder they are unemployed. If you had all of that, why the fuck would you work? Ever heard of risk and/or reward?

Some of you people post the weirdest, dumbest shit. No joke.

[Lcsulla]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Actually, many towns in the wild west had extremely restrictive gun control laws.

On the frontier it was different but in town, many made you check your gun before entering.

Correct about being controlled to a degree in the towns. It was not actually the towns themselves but the businesses who made you surrender your weapon at the door. Walking down the street with a hosltered revolver was commonplace actually. In fact that is the origin of the 'tipping your cap' gesture at someone - back then you tipped your hat with your gun hand as if to say 'Not going for my gun, just saying hello'

Originally Posted by gocubsgo3822

they just know that bad areas are really bad. And they are frightening. I have ended up i multiple places on the southside where i have been scared for my life multiple times. It is why i will never go back to those areas again.

Yeah, if I was ever sent there I would bring my weapon without a second thought regardless of whether the city had gotten around to rubberstamping my carry permit.

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Yeah. Safety is not Chicago's or the USs strong suit. People from other countries come here to be less safe all the time.

I was not aware we had replaced the statue of liberties torch with a fucking help wanted sign...

Originally Posted by Kevaroo

If you're not caring about large groups of people because they black, that is racist.

Just because someone doesn't care about a person(s) and they happen to be black doesn't mean racism is involved.

Ecactly this, take any large demographic and put them in the same violent situation and calling out a problem that Stevie Wonder can see 20/20 is not inherently racist.

Originally Posted by rmp207

I have a large problem with Al Sharpton and rev Jackson, they are two "community leaders" who stoke racism and the us against them mentality.

I give Jackson far more credit than Rev Al. At least Jessee has legitimately tried to help by running for office and shit, Sharpton just wanders around trolling for the next allegedly racist incident to line his pockets and stoke the flames of racism. If Jackson was a bit smarter, quicker on his feet and not such a one trick pony he'd stand a better chance of election and put himself in a position to help and further distance himself from a huckster like Sharpton.

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

I am sure a ton of poor folks would jump at the opportunity to get an education IF someone paid their bills, gave them transportation, brought them clothes, watched their kids, put food on their tables at night, could guarantee them that once they graduated they could find a job.

And once they got that job, that a less qualified person would not be promoted before them only because the other person was white.

Where can I sign up for the first, I'd love another degree, a new car, new clothes, expense money, etc, etc. I would probably wonder who was footing the bill for my good fortune though.

As to the second about promotions, that cuts both ways - there are plenty of examples of whites who were equally or more qualified being denied a position in favor of a person of color.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Right. The parents and children continue to make poor choices, generation after generation. You can sugarcoat it all you want but that's what's happening.

You make it sound like these kids and parents grow up in a far off land with no TV, Internet or social interaction. By the age of 16, you know right from wrong, regardless of where or how you grew up. You know there are better lives out there than gang life, dealing, "hustling", etc...

I'm sure that none of these people of which we're speaking have EVER heard of holding down a job, going to school, etc... I mean, how could they? All they know is the streets!!! (Honestly, put in context, it's really, really silly.)

Their version of "right" is retaliate with deadly force when you've been wronged and the cops are your enemy. Not exactly building blocks for a place in the civilized parts of society. Education should be the path to getting out of the ghetto, but with poor schools with bad teachers in those areas that probably feel more like prisons than places of learning I'm sure it makes it difficult to see that as the best path to take. Add on top of that their parents are probably unemployed, drug addicts, or in prison, the kids are probably taking care of themselves and their siblings. Hard to go to school when you have those burdens on your shoulders.

[Arby]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Right. The parents and children continue to make poor choices, generation after generation. You can sugarcoat it all you want but that's what's happening.

You make it sound like these kids and parents grow up in a far off land with no TV, Internet or social interaction. By the age of 16, you know right from wrong, regardless of where or how you grew up. You know there are better lives out there than gang life, dealing, "hustling", etc...

I'm sure that none of these people of which we're speaking have EVER heard of holding down a job, going to school, etc... I mean, how could they? All they know is the streets!!! (Honestly, put in context, it's really, really silly.)

I know there are better lives out there than mine right now. I mean...why arent I a millionaire living on a private island as the CEO of my own thriving tech company.

Just because I know its there, doesnt make it attainable.

[Climb2safety]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Well, Jesus Christ dude. Can I set the table in any other fashion? I mean, if that's what it takes for someone to even contemplate looking for a job or go to school, no wonder they are unemployed. If you had all of that, why the fuck would you work? Ever heard of risk and/or reward?

Some of you people post the weirdest, dumbest shit. No joke.

You asked why it was and I told you.

Originally Posted by Lcsulla

Where can I sign up for the first, I'd love another degree, a new car, new clothes, expense money, etc, etc. I would probably wonder who was footing the bill for my good fortune though.

Gents, the US has a history of tacking these problems we have just chosen not to do it with this generation.

They are called job programs, work incentives, retraining, etc. People need help and something has to be done to break this cycle everyone is talking about in this thread.

If we pave a path out of poverty for people they will take it and we'll be a better country.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Arby

I know there are better lives out there than mine right now. I mean...why arent I a millionaire living on a private island as the CEO of my own thriving tech company.

Just because I know its there, doesnt make it attainable.

Right. So your life is not all you know, which is what you stated earlier. Agreed on the attainability part. However, it's not a stretch to expect the next generation to do slightly better than the previous, is it?

I think that's a probem. Anytime anyone suggests that there's community action needed (ie parenting), not just giving people money, everyone runs to the furthest extreme. "Yeah, it's totally realistic for this urban kid to become a millionaire." No one is saying that. But, I don't think it's unrealistic to think kids could at least finish HS and move away from such a shitty neighborhood to a slightly better neighborhood. Generally speaking, that's what most people do in their lives. They build upwards.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Benny003

Their version of "right" is retaliate with deadly force when you've been wronged and the cops are your enemy. Not exactly building blocks for a place in the civilized parts of society. Education should be the path to getting out of the ghetto, but with poor schools with bad teachers in those areas that probably feel more like prisons than places of learning I'm sure it makes it difficult to see that as the best path to take. Add on top of that their parents are probably unemployed, drug addicts, or in prison, the kids are probably taking care of themselves and their siblings. Hard to go to school when you have those burdens on your shoulders.

Again, always picking out the worst of the worst scenarios. I'm not going to argue case by case over some of this stuff because, to an extent, you're right. However, even with all of that shit, people still need to be responsible for themselves, right? We don't give a pass to people with drinking problems when they are picked up for DUI. We don't give a pass to pedophiles. We can't just say, "well, you were dealt a shitty hand, so fuck it". No, people are held accountable.

With this being a thread specifically about Chicago and livnig here, I can definitely say that the problem does not lie with the teachers and/or their salaries.

Quite frankly, Chicago is a shitty town politically and after about 50 years of trying to sweep real problems under the rug, they're all hitting full head. Perfect example: The city thought that spray painting was getting out of control in Chicago, so of course they passed some legislation. That legislation made it illegal to sell spray paint in the city of Chicago. Needless to say, more neighborhoods are "tagged" now than ever before. There was no addressing of the real problem but politicians have clamied to have "tackled" the issue.

My point is that Chicago doesn't address their problems. They're more about creating the far end of the spectrum excuse as to why the problem can't be fixed and moving along.

[Lcsulla]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Gents, the US has a history of tacking these problems we have just chosen not to do it with this generation.

Maybe this generation has stopped because they know we are essentially broke as a nation and using all the tax revenue we take in for basic necessities and paying off debts incurred by earlier generations social experiments that just never seemed to pay off in the end.

[rconverse]

Originally Posted by Lcsulla

As to the second about promotions, that cuts both ways - there are plenty of examples of whites who were equally or more qualified being denied a position in favor of a person of color.

Or a female, old college buddy, old work buddy, family friend, any other ethnicity (as diversity is the new thing)...etc....

[justink]

Chicago has good pizzas.

Gino's east ftw

[justink]

Chicago has good pizzas.

Gino's east ftw

[Bron Yr Aur]

You guys. Just, wow, some of these opinions.

Yes these people who grow up in horrifying poverty should JUST TRY HARDER. Even though they have shitty schools because they live in shitty neighborhoods because that's where white people put them decades ago.

[Climb2safety]

Grow some bank accounts and get out of the hood losers!

[Bron Yr Aur]

Originally Posted by Climb2safety

Grow some bank accounts and get out of the hood losers!

The funny thing is that this is basically rconverse's argument.

[Benny003]

Originally Posted by rconverse

Again, always picking out the worst of the worst scenarios. I'm not going to argue case by case over some of this stuff because, to an extent, you're right. However, even with all of that shit, people still need to be responsible for themselves, right? We don't give a pass to people with drinking problems when they are picked up for DUI. We don't give a pass to pedophiles. We can't just say, "well, you were dealt a shitty hand, so fuck it". No, people are held accountable.

Who said anything about giving these people a pass? I was just explaining why their situation is so difficult to get out of. I'm not sure what you mean by "worst of the worst scenarios". The topic of the thread is the gang violence over the weekend in Chicago. Short of all out anarchy, that many deaths caused by gang violence in a short time span is the worst of the worst scenarios. Given that reality, it's really not hard to understand why the people living in the ghetto struggle to get out.

[Foreverford05]

Originally Posted by Bron Yr Aur

You guys. Just, wow, some of these opinions.

Yes these people who grow up in horrifying poverty should JUST TRY HARDER. Even though they have shitty schools because they live in shitty neighborhoods because that's where white people put them decades ago.

They don't have to be shitty. And a little effort never hurt anyone. Can't speak on behalf of Chicago, but here in Baltimore there's definitely a lethargic attitude to many individuals situations.