Open discussion on current studio session

[BigEyedFerg]

Originally Posted by ~Crashintome89~

The fans will always have influence on the band and what they do. If that wasn't the case, the band wouldn't be touring anymore.

I have only ONE THING to say to YOU

Go Penguins.

[Sister]

Originally Posted by Peppermill

... But there are some people on these boards who feel like the band owes them something or that they deserve more than what they are getting out of the band whether it be through new information, varied songs on tour, a better album, etc. The band only owes themselves for these things and a some fans just need to be reminded of that.

Oh my God.

You just (very succinctly) stated what goes thru my mind every time I get on this board.

BRAVO to you!!

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by Sister

Oh my God.

You just (very succinctly) stated what goes thru my mind every time I get on this board.

BRAVO to you!!

I just flat out disagree with this.

If I pay the band for a show, I deserve a good show.

If I pay the band for an album, I deserve a good album.

If it's a free concert (CP), I should just be grateful to be there.

[Sister]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

I just flat out disagree with this.

If I pay the band for a show, I deserve a good show.

If I pay the band for an album, I deserve a good album.

If it's a free concert (CP), I should just be grateful to be there.

But the idea of what is 'good' and 'not good' is different to every person. What is 'good' to you may not be to someone else, and vice-versa.

Perhaps they need to give you a call before the next album comes out to make sure you will be happy with it.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by Sister

But the idea of 'good' and 'not good' is different to every person. What is 'good' to you may not be to someone else, and vice-versa.

Perhaps they need to give you a call before the next album comes out to make sure you will be happy with it.

This is true.

However, we know how lazy their writing was during the SU sessions. We know how lazy it was after. We know Roi flipped out on the rest of the band, left the studio and didn't talk to them for weeks. So obviously, my opinion that the band was doing shit work for years is not completely alien and psychotic...

I can't demand that they make brilliant music. But I can demand that they try. and in my opinion, and in Roi's and in many other people's (obviously), they were not doing this. And they deserve ever ounce of criticism they ge tfor it.

[Sister]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

This is true.

However, we know how lazy their writing was during the SU sessions. We know how lazy it was after. We know Roi flipped out on the rest of the band, left the studio and didn't talk to them for weeks. So obviously, my opinion that the band was doing shit work for years is not completely alien and psychotic...

I can't demand that they make brilliant music. But I can demand that they try. and in my opinion, and in Roi's and in many other people's (obviously), they were not doing this. And they deserve ever ounce of criticism they ge tfor it.

We don't know if it was lazy - many things drive creativity. Lust, hate, frustration, joy...we weren't there during the creation, and I am not going to take the (rumored) frustrations of one of the band members as proof positive that they tossed SU off like a one-minute salami session in the boys room. Sorry.

While it is obvious that SU it wasn't their BEST work, this argument has little to do with the bottom line - which is they will put out the music that those involved have the stamp of approval on. Whether it's good to you or not will have zip to do with it. AS IT SHOULD BE. It's THEIR work, not yours. If you want say-so over the material, start a band. I hear Menudo is getting back together.

You have a right to your feelings, but that doesn't make them true for all, only true for you.

[dmb5570]

honestly, until no one cheers during a SU song, they are going to keep playing them. no matter if you like them or not, there is a lot of cheering when songs from stand up get played, and the band enjoys that energy. if no one cheered, they probably would skip those songs. but just because you think they are crap and ruin a show, obviously does not mean that much because there still are a lot of people wanting those songs. yea, i would prefer a concert with no SU songs on it at all, like they never happened, but they are going to be there, they are just as part of the catalogue as anything else, i cant imagine never going to another concert and missing all the awesome moments.

[Peppermill]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

This is true.

However, we know how lazy their writing was during the SU sessions. We know how lazy it was after. We know Roi flipped out on the rest of the band, left the studio and didn't talk to them for weeks. So obviously, my opinion that the band was doing shit work for years is not completely alien and psychotic...

I can't demand that they make brilliant music. But I can demand that they try. and in my opinion, and in Roi's and in many other people's (obviously), they were not doing this. And they deserve ever ounce of criticism they ge tfor it.

Lewis, I think what it boils down to is what a fan likes or dislikes. Did I like Everyday? For the most part no. Busted Stuff, for the most part,yes. Stand Up I loved. Not every song, but the majority and in my opinion that's what makes an album good....to me, not for everyone else. Did the band receive criticism for those releases? Of course they did and more so for Everyday and Stand Up than Busted Stuff.

Does it make a difference to the band what their fanbase thinks about them? Of course they do, but it won't change what THEY want to do. The last time I can remember the band conceding to the fanbase's wishes was when they returned to record Busted Stuff and even that can be questioned. For the most part they just wanted to finish what they started. Delivering to the fanbase might have been just an added bonus. But even still there were ones who couldn't get past the LWS and accept Busted Stuff as another entity. In my opinion making demands isn't a good thing.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by Sister

We don't know if it was lazy - many things drive creativity. Lust, hate, frustration, joy...we weren't there during the creation, and I am not going to take the (rumored) frustrations of one of the band members as proof positive that they tossed SU off like a one-minute salami session in the boys room. Sorry.

Well, I'll take that in combination with b) that is sounds like a one-minute salami session to my ears and b) "That's a song!!!" methodology we know they used/

Originally Posted by Sister

While it is obvious that SU it wasn't their BEST work, this argument has little to do with the bottom line - which is they will put out the music that those involved have the stamp of approval on. Whether it's good to you or not will have zip to do with it. AS IT SHOULD BE. It's THEIR work, not yours. If you want say-so over the material, start a band. I hear Menudo is getting back together.

You have a right to your feelings, but that doesn't make them true for all, only true for you.

Yeah, but I don't have to care if they are true for all or not, in order to post on here, all I have to care is that they are true for me. Because remember what it is that I think is true for me: not that I don't like the music, which I KNOW is true for me, but that it is lazy and bad, which I think is true of the music itself. Sure, it's my opinion, but it IS my opinion and I'm sticking with it.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by Sister

We don't know if it was lazy - many things drive creativity. Lust, hate, frustration, joy...we weren't there during the creation, and I am not going to take the (rumored) frustrations of one of the band members as proof positive that they tossed SU off like a one-minute salami session in the boys room. Sorry.

While it is obvious that SU it wasn't their BEST work, this argument has little to do with the bottom line - which is they will put out the music that those involved have the stamp of approval on. Whether it's good to you or not will have zip to do with it. AS IT SHOULD BE. It's THEIR work, not yours. If you want say-so over the material, start a band. I hear Menudo is getting back together.

You have a right to your feelings, but that doesn't make them true for all, only true for you.

Also, you completely contradict yourself here, by the way. How could we possibly know it isn't their BEST work if we can't have knowledge of whether or not a music is good.

Geez, you don't have to like my opinions, but at least they are consistent...

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by Peppermill

Lewis, I think what it boils down to is what a fan likes or dislikes. Did I like Everyday? For the most part no. Busted Stuff, for the most part,yes. Stand Up I loved. Not every song, but the majority and in my opinion that's what makes an album good....to me, not for everyone else. Did the band receive criticism for those releases? Of course they did and more so for Everyday and Stand Up than Busted Stuff.

Does it make a difference to the band what their fanbase thinks about them? Of course they do, but it won't change what THEY want to do. The last time I can remember the band conceding to the fanbase's wishes was when they returned to record Busted Stuff and even that can be questioned. For the most part they just wanted to finish what they started. Delivering to the fanbase might have been just an added bonus. But even still there were ones who couldn't get past the LWS and accept Busted Stuff as another entity. In my opinion making demands isn't a good thing.

More accurately, from my understanding, the record company wanted their money back that they lost on the downloaded boots, and the band caved like the little industry-whores they can be every now and then - like when they rejected the LWS in the first place.

In the meanwhile, I agree with you that making demands on an artist is not a good thing but I am not doing that - I am simply calling it as I sees it - that the music is shit, and doing what it is rational for me to do in that case, which is not go see them.

[DerekJTR2]

Ya know I rarely agree with MistreatedLewis and I really doubt his love for the band.

BUT THAT MUTHAFUCKA PWNS ALL YA'LL ASSES

[kyledmb]

Stand Up and Everyday were products of a lazy, underachieving DMB.

Some people don't care if the product is born out of laziness, and will enjoy anything a talented group of musicians could possibly release. More power to those people.

But, some believe that DMB set the bar very high for themselves with Crash and BTCS. They openly reject anything that feels half-assed. For these fans, it is the bands fault they are so judgemental of music. The band raised the bar, and it's hard to watch them stuggle hitting the bar again for the last decade. They haven't even got their feet off the ground in many, many aspects of music. And we have every right to be frustrated about that...and even turn morbidly pessimistic about the bands current efforts.

I'm with Lewis on this one, every damn time.

[DerekJTR2]

Originally Posted by kyledmb

Stand Up and Everyday were products of a lazy, underachieving DMB.

Some people don't care if the product is born out of laziness, and will enjoy anything a talented group of musicians could possibly release. More power to those people.

But, some believe that DMB set the bar very high for themselves with Crash and BTCS. They openly reject anything that feels half-assed. For these fans, it is the bands fault they are so judgemental of music. The band raised the bar, and it's hard to watch them stuggle hitting the bar again for the last decade. They haven't even got their feet off the ground in many, many aspects of music. And we have every right to be frustrated about that...and even turn morbidly pessimistic about the bands current efforts.

I'm with Lewis on this one, every damn time.

I agree, but I think that you guys are often VASTLY overcritical which makes it practically impossible for you guys to enjoy any new music. You set a bar for yourselves and then it seems you guys miss the point of enjoying the music at all. I just think someone who would skip their concerts because of new songs they don't like is wasting their time even talking about it. What are you gonna do? Write the music for them?

If you are trying to set a climate that will hopefully push the band, fine. It just often seems you just want to spread negativity, when a lot of the people here like a lot of the music a great deal.

[kyledmb]

Originally Posted by DerekJTR2

I agree, but I think that you guys are often VASTLY overcritical which makes it practically impossible for you guys to enjoy any new music. You set a bar for yourselves and then it seems you guys miss the point of loving the band for better or worse. I just think someone who would skip their concerts because of new songs they don't like is wasting their time even talking about it. DMB shows are still practically 75% undeniably great music. I would still pay any amount of money for the 25% that you find to be sub-par

Well, the first line of your post is 100% accurate and utterly sobering of what I have done to myself. I hold everything the band does under a microscope and compair it to their best 3-4 songs off BTCS. So I have ruined it for myself, unfortunately.

However, I don't carry a "for better or worse" philosophy with a band. I tend to fall in love with the music, not the band. I love BTCS, but I definately have liked DMB less and less over the last 6 years or so.

[Northerntube]

Originally Posted by kyledmb

For these fans, it is the bands fault they are so judgemental of music.

I sincerely hope nobody actually *really* feels this way.

[DerekJTR2]

Originally Posted by kyledmb

However, I don't carry a "for better or worse" philosophy with a band. I tend to fall in love with the music, not the band. I love BTCS, but I definately have liked DMB less and less over the last 6 years or so.

I respect that approach a lot

[Sister]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

Also, you completely contradict yourself here, by the way. How could we possibly know it isn't their BEST work if we can't have knowledge of whether or not a music is good.

Geez, you don't have to like my opinions, but at least they are consistent...

Oh Good Gawd...pardon me for not putting the infamous IMO after the statement that SU wasn't their best. I would say that's pretty critical of you, but considering the other things I have read, that wouldn't be a surprise. I can say something is good or bad all day long, but it would only be true for ME.

So we are back to the same argument (actually in agreement) that you are entitled to your opinion (as we all are) but that it doesn't/shouldn't dictate what the band will put out.

DerekJTR, as far as being 'owned', I think not. While you may value his opinion over mine or feel more strongly that he is correct(as is your right), it does not make him right (or me either, for that matter). Art is subjective, not right or wrong.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by Sister

Oh Good Gawd...pardon me for not putting the infamous IMO after the statement that SU wasn't their best. I would say that's pretty critical of you, but considering the other things I have read, that wouldn't be a surprise. I can say something is good or bad all day long, but it would only be true for ME.

So we are back to the same argument (actually in agreement) that you are entitled to your opinion (as we all are) but that it doesn't/shouldn't dictate what the band will put out.

DerekJTR, as far as being 'owned', I think not. While you may value his opinion over mine or feel more strongly that he is correct(as is your right), it does not make him right (or me either, for that matter). Art is subjective, not right or wrong.

Well good glad we worked that out

[devilandthelord]

Originally Posted by kyledmb

Stand Up and Everyday were products of a lazy, underachieving DMB.

Some people don't care if the product is born out of laziness, and will enjoy anything a talented group of musicians could possibly release. More power to those people.

But, some believe that DMB set the bar very high for themselves with Crash and BTCS. They openly reject anything that feels half-assed. For these fans, it is the bands fault they are so judgemental of music. The band raised the bar, and it's hard to watch them stuggle hitting the bar again for the last decade. They haven't even got their feet off the ground in many, many aspects of music. And we have every right to be frustrated about that...and even turn morbidly pessimistic about the bands current efforts.

I'm with Lewis on this one, every damn time.

Correction, Everyday was the product of a lazy and underachieving Dave and the horrible Glen Ballard.

[DerekJTR2]

Mistreated is just better than most as formulating his argument fully and completely. Thats what I mean by PWNAGE!

[kyledmb]

Originally Posted by Northerntube

I sincerely hope nobody actually *really* feels this way.

Well, to a certain extent I do. As drastic as it may seem. Hey, if they never wrote Spoon, Two Step, Seek Up, Dreaming Tree, The Stone, etc. I would have much less in the way of expectations I do now.

Maybe I should call it the band's "fault." But it is the band's doing. And setting that standard is a great thing, but has now backfired and become a bad thing...or maybe a "haunting" thing.

[kyledmb]

Originally Posted by devilandthelord

Correction, Everyday was the product of a lazy and underachieving Dave and the horrible Glen Ballard.

Dave, DMB, the producer...all the same to me when working on a collaborative effort. If the product sucks, they live and die by it together. Pointing the finger at one element of the process is just futile.

[BigEyedFerg]

Originally Posted by kyledmb

...or maybe a "haunting" thing.

ZOMG HAUNT1NG 3P1C 3N3RGYZZ



I kinda agree with DerekJTR2... Mistreated constructs a fairly impenetrable argument. That's why people can basically just tell him to stop bitching, and it's his right to bitch to be quite frank

[Northerntube]

oh everybody has a right to bitch, no doubt.

they also have choices.

[Branty]

Originally Posted by Peppermill

And this is why I personally supported Everyday, Dave experimenting solo with Some Devil, and Stand Up. Although these ventures wasn't everyone's cup of tea, they were paths where Dave and the band could experience something different. And if this new album happens to be lumped into that group of ventures rather than with UTTAD, Crash, and BTCS....I wouldn't regard it as a failure like so many other fans have done in the past and might do in the future.

I agree.

[Branty]

I look forward to more updates about the album and stuff, but I think half the fun is the expectation. All these discussions about what the album could be like are great and if we had too much info and updates these discussions would not happen. I'm a relatively new fan and I really enjoy looking on here and seeing what other people think and what songs from the past they hope will be on the album. Living in the UK, we get pretty much no info whatsoever on DMB and so I enjoy seeing all this speculation on here, which like I said you would not get if all the info and album was out within a week.

[timgengler]

Originally Posted by Northerntube

oh everybody has a right to bitch, no doubt.

they also have choices.

Poor lewis... on a web site for a band that he isnt all that into anymore... Makes me wonder how empty his life is if he sticks around just to be a prick and bitch about stuff... Yep... People have the right to bitch if they want, it's just kind of indicitive of a person's personality to exercise their right to whine instead. The only thing amusing is about him is how he and his groupies take pride in being dicks when they could be doing something worthwhile or uplifiting...

Me? Im just bored at work (:

[BigEyedFerg]

Originally Posted by timgengler

Me? Im just bored at work (:

Amen, without AM.org, my days at work would be brutal

[crawfish]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

I guess if you consider being as artistically lazy as humanly possible an "experiment"...

I can see things haven't changed much since the last time I came around here. You're still acting like a baby and bitching and moaning about Stand Up. My god. Do you ever stop???