Xbone has actual games. Ps4 just kinda wobbles

[lockman21]

Originally Posted by Mateo2k

Again, I'm sure it's something they're looking at, and will probably implement in a generation or two, but it won't be in the upcoming 2013 consoles.

Yes, it will be.

[tball123]

I wonder how much these consoles will be at launch? Over $500? Shit is getting fucking expensive.

[smokew11]

Originally Posted by thestand

I rarely use my PS3 anymore, but any new location I go to I turn it on, go to configure connection, pick my network, put in the password, and it's good to go.

EDIT: It is a launch day 60GB, known far and wide as the sexiest PS3 available, so maybe PS3s that aren't that one have problems that I don't.

i bought my PS3 about a yr and a half ago and have never had a problem connecting

[smokew11]

i also dont plan on buying another console til my ps3 shits out

[thestand]

Originally Posted by tball123

I wonder how much these consoles will be at launch? Over $500? Shit is getting fucking expensive.

If the reports are right, and the XB3 is running two 7000 series GPUs and a 6 cell CPU, then a Blu-Ray Drive, the custom MOBO, an as-yet-unknown capacity and type of hard drive, and the case, hardware alone would probably be $800. But of course, they almost always sell consoles at launch at a loss. They won't start making money on it until the price of the components comes down. The PS3 was something like a $300 dollar per unit loss for Sony for the first two years. I think $600 is probably a fair estimate.

Because of how long the lifespans for the PS3 and 360 are going to last (I doubt if support for both are dropped until 2017), they are fine putting this on the market at a high price point. The people that are going to buy this in the first 6 months are hardcore gamers, by definition. Hell, both MS and Sony may actually be able to float the price of the new systems up a bit, if micro-PCs catch on with the release of Steam's Big Picture Mode. If people start buying micro-PCs like Alienware's X51. If that starts selling well at $700, Sony and Microsoft, both of whose consoles will be much, much more powerful than that, would be comfortable to start at $700.

[tball123]

^I think I'll be passing on these new generation consoles for a while. Maybe I'll finally pick up a PS3 and play MSG4. Still interested in seeing how the Wii U will be since I grew up with Nintendo games and I'm a sucker for them.

[thestand]

Epic Games showed off Unreal Engine 4 this past week. I've talked in this thread about how the new Unreal Engine is going to really drive what we see on the next console generation, as a ton of games from this generation are based on UE3. Apparently, the entire super-powerful engine is running off of a single GTX 680, Nvidia's new flagship card that just came out. Epic is basically saying to Microsoft and Sony: this is our benchmark. This is what we want to see. And I don't think it's necessarily that high of a goal. Hopefully they're smart enough to hit it.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012...%2C+Shotgun%29

[thestand]

Sony may be close to purchasing OnLive or Gaikai, the two big cloud gaming companies. The idea would be that Sony would turn one of those services into Netflix Instant for Games: every PS4 would be able to stream rentals from the cloud. The tech really works well if you have a good connection, though I still wouldn't use it for multiplayer. But for renting a new single-player you wanted to try out? This could be huge for Sony. I wish Microsoft did the same. http://kotaku.com/5914369/sony-repor...live-or-gaikai

[tball123]

Originally Posted by thestand

Sony may be close to purchasing OnLive or Gaikai, the two big cloud gaming companies. The idea would be that Sony would turn one of those services into Netflix Instant for Games: every PS4 would be able to stream rentals from the cloud. The tech really works well if you have a good connection, though I still wouldn't use it for multiplayer. But for renting a new single-player you wanted to try out? This could be huge for Sony. I wish Microsoft did the same. http://kotaku.com/5914369/sony-repor...live-or-gaikai

They do this and yet they hate the used game industry...

[thestand]

No posts since May shows you exactly how much news there's been for the two new consoles. I feel like the prevailing wisdom is still that Microsoft will hit their November 2013 release date, but the PS4 isn't on exactly the same track.

But a Sony Japan exec had a weird quote today, saying that the PS3 will be supported until at least 2015. Again, to everyone who watches the news for these new consoles, that's a completely obvious fact. But these are people in an industry that refuses to talk factually about basically anything, especially regarding release days. We've known about the Wii U for over a year now, it's coming out in a matter of weeks, and yet we just got official dates for everything about a week ago. And remember, the PS2 didn't lose Sony support until about 2010, 4 years after the PS3. So to me, explicitly mentioning 2015 seems to suggest they're still eyeing fall of next year as well.

On the Microsoft side, there's a rumor that the processor in the XB3 is proving to be almost disastrously difficult to produce. They've now officially ramped up production on the chips way earlier than expected, because they're not getting a high enough yield per wafer to hit the numbers of units they want to ship. There's even talk of a staggered release, which was fine to do in 2000 with the PS2, because the market wasn't at all like it is now. But if they seriously have to delay the console in Europe, that would be very very bad for them. Japan doesn't matter as much, MS still hasn't really made a dent.

[hmich176]

Originally Posted by thestand

But if they seriously have to delay the console in Europe, that would be very very bad for them. Japan doesn't matter as much, MS still hasn't really made a dent.

Do you mean a delay of 3 months or 6 months or longer?

[thestand]

It's all speculative, but if I had to place a guess, I'd say closer to 3 months. Get it out for the holiday season in the US, and try to hit Feb/March for the rest of the world. But again, if they can figure out how to get a better yield on the chips they're making, this concern goes away. But I saw that story come out probably 2 weeks ago or so. But you can imagine how missing a holiday season in Europe is not exactly something MS wants to do.

[thestand]

Here's one article on the chips: http://computerandvideogames.com/366...r-2013-launch/

That article discusses a possible across the board delay, instead of a staggered release. But, to me, that's not going to happen. Too many studios have games that they plan on being ready to go on launch next fall, and MS would basically be taking months of revenue away from them. Again, this isn't 2000 anymore. As you can see, plan A is for Microsoft to sink a bunch of money into finding a way to get a better yield. But if that doesn't happen, it'll be interesting to see how they deal with it.

[hmich176]

Originally Posted by thestand

It's all speculative, but if I had to place a guess, I'd say closer to 3 months. Get it out for the holiday season in the US, and try to hit Feb/March for the rest of the world. But again, if they can figure out how to get a better yield on the chips they're making, this concern goes away. But I saw that story come out probably 2 weeks ago or so. But you can imagine how missing a holiday season in Europe is not exactly something MS wants to do.

Yeah I don't think Microsoft would want that to happen, but, I think they would be able to better absorb that. The PS3 was staggered...released in November in Japan and the US, then March in the UK and Europe.

I think what matters is that release date of the XBox 3 doesn't slip behind the PS4.

And is the XBox 720 name really going to happen? I certainly hope that the fourth generation isn't called the XBox 1440.

[BotheLaneFan]

XBOX Infinity. Do it, u won't do it. (Becuz its dumb. Better than a skateboarding trick, though.)

[thestand]

Originally Posted by hmich176

And is the XBox 720 name really going to happen? I certainly hope that the fourth generation isn't called the XBox 1440.

I highly doubt it. You'll see different sources use different placeholder names. XB3, XBox Next, etc. But 720 is the main one, because it is, for whatever reason, what people expected. I highly doubt it will be, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities, I guess.

[spoot388]

Originally Posted by thestand

I highly doubt it. You'll see different sources use different placeholder names. XB3, XBox Next, etc. But 720 is the main one, because it is, for whatever reason, what people expected. I highly doubt it will be, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities, I guess.

720 was just the easiest name to say for what generation you're talking about. and PS went with escalating numbers (2, 3, now 4?) so what comes after 360? 720. when there was no factual information about the system, calling it the 720 was just the easiest way to do it. everybody knew what was being talked about.

[unccrombie]

just follow Apple and call it the next Xbox.

[Hilly]

Whoo! Wii U!

[thestand]

Originally Posted by spoot388

720 was just the easiest name to say for what generation you're talking about. and PS went with escalating numbers (2, 3, now 4?) so what comes after 360? 720. when there was no factual information about the system, calling it the 720 was just the easiest way to do it. everybody knew what was being talked about.

Correct, it was dumb then, it's dumb now. I'm excited for an official name so people will stop saying 720.

[~Crashintome89~]

Brendan, if Microsoft is having trouble hardware wise with the next gen Xbox, why don't they delay the release? I was first gen 360 owner, and my console crapped out a few months after I purchased it. I love my 360 now, and if/when I get a new console, I'll pretty much wait a few months after the release only because of the hassle with the first gen 360--I expect a few other Xbox fans to do the same as well.

[thestand]

And after another multi-month delay, more info and a thread bump. This time it's actually Sony news. The PS4 (still called Orbis) may be getting close to being finalized. Dev teams were just sent a new dev kit, and were told that the final iteration should be sent to them by January, putting it on the release trajectory everyone's expecting: holiday next year, maaaaybe pushing into early 2014.

As far as actual stats and stuff, it's going to be based around an AMD A10 APU, with it having either 8 or 16 gigs of RAM. It's said to be able to handle 1080p 3D video at 60FPS, meaning that it should be able to scale up to 4k definition when consumer 4K x 2K tvs become more available in the next few years.

http://www.vg247.com/2012/11/01/ps4_...playstation_4/

[thestand]

It's looking more and more like Microsoft is going to go with a twin-SKU approach. Release a true next-gen console, the project Durango we've been hearing about, while at the same time releasing a set-top device that's about as powerful as the 360/Wii U, but won't be able to play next-gen games. It'll more look to be direct competition for the Apple TV, but it can also play all XBL Arcade games, which is a pretty sweet little device. The next-gen console will do all of the same things, though, with the advantage of also being pretty damn powerful.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/11/...-the-next-xbox

[water_into_wine]

You think these are going to be powerful enough?

I think they are going to need pinpoint accuracy to hit the right price point on the smaller device.

[thestand]

Originally Posted by water_into_wine

You think these are going to be powerful enough?

I think they are going to need pinpoint accuracy to hit the right price point on the smaller device.

Powerful enough, talking about the true next-gen one? From everything that we've heard, I've been surprised how positively I can say yes. The one thing I will say, and I read an article on Kotaku on the same subject, is that I really hope this next console generation doesn't drag on as long as this one does. People are beginning to understand that consoles are basically subsidized, closed-system PCs. So when the XB3 and the PS4 come out, they will absolutely be the best gaming devices you can buy. From what we've heard, the PS4 is still toying with the idea of having 16GB of RAM, while the XB3 seems to be sticking to 8GB + the GPU's own VRAM. Remember, these are following consoles that both had 512MB of RAM.

And the CPUs and GPUs being talked about will absolutely be competitive with gaming rigs right now. In essence, if the consoles release at the specs we're hearing right now, you'll probably end up paying $600 or so for what you'd pay about $1400 for if you built your own PC. But my point, that I originally made a bit back, is that console generations have traditionally been 5 years, but the 360 had an 8 year lifespan. Do you know what a $1400 PC from 8 years ago would go for now? I don't know, how much would you pay for a doorstop? Hopefully going forward, 5 years is back. But we'll see. I do think they'll be able to keep the price right around $500-$600 at the specs they're talking about, if they operate at a loss like they usually do for the first year or so. And it'll be pretty nice.

[water_into_wine]

Originally Posted by thestand

Powerful enough, talking about the true next-gen one? From everything that we've heard, I've been surprised how positively I can say yes. The one thing I will say, and I read an article on Kotaku on the same subject, is that I really hope this next console generation doesn't drag on as long as this one does. People are beginning to understand that consoles are basically subsidized, closed-system PCs. So when the XB3 and the PS4 come out, they will absolutely be the best gaming devices you can buy. From what we've heard, the PS4 is still toying with the idea of having 16GB of RAM, while the XB3 seems to be sticking to 8GB + the GPU's own VRAM. Remember, these are following consoles that both had 512MB of RAM.

And the CPUs and GPUs being talked about will absolutely be competitive with gaming rigs right now. In essence, if the consoles release at the specs we're hearing right now, you'll probably end up paying $600 or so for what you'd pay about $1400 for if you built your own PC. But my point, that I originally made a bit back, is that console generations have traditionally been 5 years, but the 360 had an 8 year lifespan. Do you know what a $1400 PC from 8 years ago would go for now? I don't know, how much would you pay for a doorstop? Hopefully going forward, 5 years is back. But we'll see. I do think they'll be able to keep the price right around $500-$600 at the specs they're talking about, if they operate at a loss like they usually do for the first year or so. And it'll be pretty nice.

Gotcha. Thanks for the info Seems like you're really positive on it whereas in the past you seemed to imply that the companies weren't adding enough specs to satisfy what software companies can do nowadays.

Is there a big reason for why the development cycle has been so long? Consistent sales or something? To me, from a complete consumer standpoint, I'd just guess the reason might be that there isn't a huge clamor to get something better and honestly it hasn't felt like 8 years. I remember seeing pictures of what the current devices could do back then and just think "Oh my god. Must have". Maybe once that starts happening I'll start feeling like I need something more again even though current devices still blow me away (I'm looking at you Skyrim and all the Halo 4 videos out there).

[thestand]

Originally Posted by water_into_wine

Gotcha. Thanks for the info Seems like you're really positive on it whereas in the past you seemed to imply that the companies weren't adding enough specs to satisfy what software companies can do nowadays.

Is there a big reason for why the development cycle has been so long? Consistent sales or something? To me, from a complete consumer standpoint, I'd just guess the reason might be that there isn't a huge clamor to get something better and honestly it hasn't felt like 8 years. I remember seeing pictures of what the current devices could do back then and just think "Oh my god. Must have". Maybe once that starts happening I'll start feeling like I need something more again even though current devices still blow me away (I'm looking at you Skyrim and all the Halo 4 videos out there).

Well, I think it's worthwhile to point out the obvious: 2007-now has really limited the people who are looking to/even can drop a few hundred dollars at the drop of a hat on a new console. So part of it is basic economics: less major purchases have opened up the avenues for micro purchases. That's why mobile and social games have dominated for the past few years: people would rather sink a hundred dollars in micro transactions over the course of a year, than they would spend $60 for a new game on one day.

And that mobile and social development has bled over into revenue streams for the consoles, lessening their desire to update. It's the reason Microsoft looks like they're going to release two SKUs: they'll almost certainly make more money on the Apple TV competitor one, compared to the true next-gen one. XBox Live has proven to be insanely profitable, with the subscription revenue playing a big part, but also everything else you can do with a console without ever buying a disc. I've mentioned it in this thread earlier, but you'll undoubtedly see Microsoft and Sony full embrace 'freemium' games going forward. XBL has their first ever right now, in the not-so-great Happy Wars. But on the next-gen, I'm guessing they're going to support freemium games right along side major titles, because there's so much money to be made.

So, having said all of that, a new console really gives them a clean slate. They hypothetically could support more freemium games now, but a new system really drives home everything.

As far as feeling better about specs, yeah. You can backread this thread, and the rumors have gone from slight upgrades to the ones we have now. And, I can't stress this enough: the specs we have right now, they might change slightly, but we're about four weeks away from them being locked in. These consoles are coming out next fall, and they have to be ready to be in production this coming spring/summer. To do that, they have to be able to have everything ready to be produced this winter, in terms of verifying the chips can roll out on time, something I mentioned Microsoft was having problems with. But yeah, one of the first things I mentioned in this thread was how certain studios, like Epic and Crytek, were pressuring the console makers into having more power. Honestly, one of the first rumours for the PS4 was a quad-core CPU, a fairly middling CPU, and 2GB RAM. And now it looks like it might have a fantastic APU setup with at least 8GB, possibly 16GB.

Super long-winded post will end with your last point there: the general rule is that end-products are the results of the development that happened 2 or 3 years before hand. Because once you start working with assets, you more or less time-lock yourself in. So yeah, Halo 4 looks fantastic, Crysis 3 looks fantastic, but they're games that were made in 2010. The problem is, we can empirically say that they are getting as much out of the system as possible. They fill the discs they ship on, and they max out CPU usage. The problem with that, is that we know that the first two years on a new console are also going to be 2 or 3 years in the past, with the caveat that they had to be developed originally on older tech. Which might sound weird, because why would you start developing a game before you knew what you were dealing with? It's because developers notoriously save new IPs for new console generations. So this is a long-winded way of saying: the more a console generation goes on, the farther we are from that true next leap. Remember when everyone freaked out over how awesome Watch Dogs looked at E3? That's an IP that will ship on the new consoles, and will have a ported version on the 360 and PS3. Companies want to set up their tentpoles early in console generations, so the farther we go without a new console, the more watered down the market gets. Assassin's Creed is a series that some people are getting sick of, and it didn't appear until the 360's third holiday season.

So it's very likely that the first year or two of the new consoles won't be blow-your-mind quality, because it's replacing a console that's still in a good place. But a new console release only accelerates new ideas and new IPs, which is only a good thing.

EDIT: Holy fuck, it didn't feel like I typed that much.

[pkrfan97]

Latest spec rumor for Xbox:

According to the leaked specs, and if they turn out to be true, the Xbox 720 is going to be an absolute machine. According to VGleaks, who ended up snatching up all the details, the new Xbox will have an 8-core 1.6GHz processor, 8GB of DDR3 RAM, an 800MHz graphics card, a 6x Blu-ray drive, USB 3.0, and gigabit ethernet.

Joystiq's coverage of the same rumors adds in a built-in HDD (of course) & HDMI input.

[currupt3d**]

8 gigs of DDR3 is pretty impressive for a console, 8 cores clocked at 1.6GHz not so much.

[Hilly]

Originally Posted by pkrfan97

Latest spec rumor for Xbox:

Joystiq's coverage of the same rumors adds in a built-in HDD (of course) & HDMI input.

Are they giving up on the HD-DVD?