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Old 07-25-2017, 10:23 PM   #691
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Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheldonlevene View Post
Love this and agree.

Jonathan Kent's discussion with young Clark after he saves his classmates is one of the most earnest, emotionally honest scenes in any superhero movie and completely in line with the character. I love when people say Zack doesn't understand superman because that scene, and in truth the whole film, are poignant counterevidence.


Costner is an amazing Jonathan Kent in MoS and his monologue in BvS is a highlight of that movie too
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  • Old 07-26-2017, 07:40 AM   #692
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

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    Old 07-26-2017, 08:02 AM   #693
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UCFish View Post
    MoS was really good...never understood that hate.
    I liked it quite a bit but I think the "hate" is that people have a their ideas of Superman and how he should be and this...wasn't that. I didn't like how at times it looked like The 300 in terms of visuals and maybe they were trying too hard to make it dark (the way Singer tried too hard to make his like the 70's version) but overall I liked the movie. I didn't see it until a months after it was in theaters but I remember thinking this isn't as bad as people were making it out to be.
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    Old 07-26-2017, 08:04 AM   #694
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TMoore4075 View Post
    I liked it quite a bit but I think the "hate" is that people have a their ideas of Superman and how he should be and this...wasn't that. I didn't like how at times it looked like The 300 in terms of visuals and maybe they were trying too hard to make it dark (the way Singer tried too hard to make his like the 70's version) but overall I liked the movie. I didn't see it until a months after it was in theaters but I remember thinking this isn't as bad as people were making it out to be.
    Honestly, WB, DC, and Snyder were in a no-win situation with MoS. Make it too much like Donner/Singer/Reeve, it would just be a tired retread of a failed reboot. Make it literally any other way, and it would be "that's not the Superman we know and love from Donner/Reeve!" which is what ended up happening. Of course there is a happy medium but honestly, all fandom aside, there are plenty of optimistic, hopeful, funny, and earnest moments in MoS that are perfectly consistent with the character of Superman and his lore.
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    Old 07-26-2017, 08:49 AM   #695
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by sheldonlevene View Post
    Love this and agree.

    Jonathan Kent's discussion with young Clark after he saves his classmates is one of the most earnest, emotionally honest scenes in any superhero movie and completely in line with the character. I love when people say Zack doesn't understand superman because that scene, and in truth the whole film, are poignant counterevidence.
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TwoStep2888 View Post


    Costner is an amazing Jonathan Kent in MoS and his monologue in BvS is a highlight of that movie too
    Long one up ahead. Just forewarning.

    I love Kevin Costner as Jonathan Kent. I've heard it argued that this iteration of Jonathan Kent is the opposite of how he should be portrayed given the source material. some felt that he's negative and offers no hopeful message or inspiration to his son. I weighed that argument against my opinion, but I decided that it's just another example of someone that is stuck in the old and didn't really think how interesting this new iteration is. Crack your jokes, but Man of Steel is the "thinking man's Superman".

    Instead of the golden boy scouts that are portrayed in the original movie and comics we were given a look at a more human Jonathan and Clark Kent. While one character is dealing with the human side of, well, not being human, the other is dealing with how to be a father. This is just a regular hardworking man that just so happened to discover and adopt an all powerful being from another planet. Pretty heavy stuff right there. No, they didn't give us Pa Kent that says "Gee golly, son. You need to be the light and beacon of hope for all of humanity". Instead this adaptation portrays a much more real father/son relationship. Quite frankly Jonathan and Martha have no idea what to do, which in a way is just like any other new mother and father. Jon even says in the car before the tornado, "We're not your parents. but we've been doing the best we can, and we've been making this up as we go along..." That's about as real as it gets right there. They didn't just find some kid without a home and take him in. They adopted a boy that looks human but can lift a bus out of a river without any problem. There are real things to consider with a child like that. One of the biggest things being his safety and the safety of others. They want their son to have a good life and one devoid of government experiments and fear, but they also want to make sure he learns not to take advantage of his powers.

    Clark: I wanted to hit that kid. I wanted to hit him so bad.
    Jonathan Kent: I know you did. I mean, part of me even wanted you to, but then what? Make you feel any better? You just have to decide what kind of a man you want to grow up to be, Clark; because whoever that man is, good character or bad, he's... He's gonna change the world.

    What makes this iteration of Jonathan Kent so poignant is that, like a lot of fathers, he wants his son to become his own man. He guides him like a father but asks him to keep his powers a secret. Not just because he's afraid of the world's reaction, but because he wants his son to learn to be responsible. To think before acting. Are you using your powers for a purpose, or are you just using them because you can?

    This character is real. He gives advice, but he doesn't always know the answer. Just like any real father.

    Jonathan: Clark, you have to keep this side of yourself a secret.
    Clark: What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?
    Jonathan: Maybe; but there's more at stake here than our lives or the lives of those around us. When the world... When the world finds out what you can do, it's gonna change everything; our... our beliefs, our notions of what it means to be human... everything. You saw how Pete's mom reacted, right? She was scared, Clark.
    Clark Kent: Why?
    Jonathan: People are afraid of what they don't understand.

    This character is not sugar coating anything, and that's what makes their relationship so interesting and different than other adaptations. He presents real life lessons to his son and gives him real circumstances too consider.

    Jonathan Kent inspires his son to be his own man and in that he makes him just as human as anyone else. Which, in the end, gives him cause and purpose to stand up for humanity.

    Jonathan Kent: I have to believe that you were... that you were sent here for a reason. All these changes that you're going through, one day... one day you're gonna think of them as a blessing; and when that day comes, you're gonna have to make a choice... a choice of whether to stand proud in front of the human race or not.
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    Old 07-26-2017, 08:59 AM   #696
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by M. Steng View Post
    Honestly, WB, DC, and Snyder were in a no-win situation with MoS. Make it too much like Donner/Singer/Reeve, it would just be a tired retread of a failed reboot. Make it literally any other way, and it would be "that's not the Superman we know and love from Donner/Reeve!" which is what ended up happening. Of course there is a happy medium but honestly, all fandom aside, there are plenty of optimistic, hopeful, funny, and earnest moments in MoS that are perfectly consistent with the character of Superman and his lore.
    This is an excellent point, and one that gets overlooked far too often. Sure, they went a little darker than most would liked to have seen for a Superman movie. But like Mike said, it seems like the only options were to try and recreate Richard Donner's Superman, which someone tried and failed at doing, or they could try and break new ground with a character that everyone is already familiar with. For the first time a Superman movie took the time to really humanize and ground the character in reality. That's a ballsy move and I think they hit the mark despite what some may say.
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    Old 07-26-2017, 09:05 AM   #697
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    @Kev:

    https://media.giphy.com/media/7rj2ZgttvgomY/giphy.gif
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    Old 07-26-2017, 09:09 AM   #698
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEfoNXQDWBs
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    Old 07-26-2017, 09:11 AM   #699
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KevinTH View Post
    This is an excellent point, and one that gets overlooked far too often. Sure, they went a little darker than most would liked to have seen for a Superman movie. But like Mike said, it seems like the only options were to try and recreate Richard Donner's Superman, which someone tried and failed at doing, or they could try and break new ground with a character that everyone is already familiar with. For the first time a Superman movie took the time to really humanize and ground the character in reality. That's a ballsy move and I think they hit the mark despite what some may say.
    And one more thing...

    Now having said the above, what will make the first two movies really stand out is if they bring back Superman in Justice League as the bright beacon of hope everyone knows him to be. In my opinion, in order to make the first two movies work he has to come back hopeful and inspiring. It really adds more to the character's arc. They have to move away from dark Superman.

    Man of Steel: This movie explores the questions of "who am I? Where do I belong? What purpose do I serve and how should I use my powers?" He then goes on to save the world from a major threat.

    Batman vs. Superman: Superman saved the world and continues to do so, but the world is questioning him. Do we need a Superman? By the end of the movie he makes the ultimate sacrifice and dies for all humanity. The world mourns and sees that he was not a threat and that he would do anything to save humanity.

    Justice League: Superman returns and returns triumphant. He now has a place in the world as the beacon of hope for everyone to look towards.

    Basically what Batman vs. Superman did was wipe the slate clean to give us a more awe inspiring version of Superman moving forward. I really hope that's the direction they take the character in any future movies, otherwise it renders the first two movies as useless and we're stuck with a mopey dark Superman.
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    Old 07-26-2017, 09:21 AM   #700
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Agree with that Kev. What's going to be fucked up is if they toy with or even hint at Superman being evil or otherwise compromised upon resurrection. I don't want a brainwashed Superman. I want him ready to jump in and immediately contribute to the league. And then what I really want is for Batman and Superman to clash ideologically.

    It's all well and good for Bruce to rally the leaguers around the idea of Superman...but at their core Batman and Superman are really different men and there should be some sort of leadership clash/struggle. Ideally Superman should lead the league and Bruce should be master tactician that occasionally disagrees with or has his ideas stifled by Superman's ideology. They never need to come to blows again in this DCEU, but they shouldn't always be lock step on their approach to an enemy.
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    Old 07-26-2017, 09:44 AM   #701
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by M. Steng View Post
    Honestly, WB, DC, and Snyder were in a no-win situation with MoS. Make it too much like Donner/Singer/Reeve, it would just be a tired retread of a failed reboot. Make it literally any other way, and it would be "that's not the Superman we know and love from Donner/Reeve!" which is what ended up happening. Of course there is a happy medium but honestly, all fandom aside, there are plenty of optimistic, hopeful, funny, and earnest moments in MoS that are perfectly consistent with the character of Superman and his lore.
    Yeah I agree. There is a happy medium that I think they could have hit but yeah they were in a no-win at all. Singer essentially got killed for it not being dark enough and that it was too campy and Snyder got the other side. Again my biggest issue is the look at times but that wasn't a deal breaker at all for me. Oh and the "I will find him!" lines. lol
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    Old 07-26-2017, 02:35 PM   #702
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by KevinTH View Post
    Long one up ahead. Just forewarning.

    I love Kevin Costner as Jonathan Kent. I've heard it argued that this iteration of Jonathan Kent is the opposite of how he should be portrayed given the source material. some felt that he's negative and offers no hopeful message or inspiration to his son. I weighed that argument against my opinion, but I decided that it's just another example of someone that is stuck in the old and didn't really think how interesting this new iteration is. Crack your jokes, but Man of Steel is the "thinking man's Superman".

    Instead of the golden boy scouts that are portrayed in the original movie and comics we were given a look at a more human Jonathan and Clark Kent. While one character is dealing with the human side of, well, not being human, the other is dealing with how to be a father. This is just a regular hardworking man that just so happened to discover and adopt an all powerful being from another planet. Pretty heavy stuff right there. No, they didn't give us Pa Kent that says "Gee golly, son. You need to be the light and beacon of hope for all of humanity". Instead this adaptation portrays a much more real father/son relationship. Quite frankly Jonathan and Martha have no idea what to do, which in a way is just like any other new mother and father. Jon even says in the car before the tornado, "We're not your parents. but we've been doing the best we can, and we've been making this up as we go along..." That's about as real as it gets right there. They didn't just find some kid without a home and take him in. They adopted a boy that looks human but can lift a bus out of a river without any problem. There are real things to consider with a child like that. One of the biggest things being his safety and the safety of others. They want their son to have a good life and one devoid of government experiments and fear, but they also want to make sure he learns not to take advantage of his powers.

    Clark: I wanted to hit that kid. I wanted to hit him so bad.
    Jonathan Kent: I know you did. I mean, part of me even wanted you to, but then what? Make you feel any better? You just have to decide what kind of a man you want to grow up to be, Clark; because whoever that man is, good character or bad, he's... He's gonna change the world.

    What makes this iteration of Jonathan Kent so poignant is that, like a lot of fathers, he wants his son to become his own man. He guides him like a father but asks him to keep his powers a secret. Not just because he's afraid of the world's reaction, but because he wants his son to learn to be responsible. To think before acting. Are you using your powers for a purpose, or are you just using them because you can?

    This character is real. He gives advice, but he doesn't always know the answer. Just like any real father.

    Jonathan: Clark, you have to keep this side of yourself a secret.
    Clark: What was I supposed to do? Just let them die?
    Jonathan: Maybe; but there's more at stake here than our lives or the lives of those around us. When the world... When the world finds out what you can do, it's gonna change everything; our... our beliefs, our notions of what it means to be human... everything. You saw how Pete's mom reacted, right? She was scared, Clark.
    Clark Kent: Why?
    Jonathan: People are afraid of what they don't understand.

    This character is not sugar coating anything, and that's what makes their relationship so interesting and different than other adaptations. He presents real life lessons to his son and gives him real circumstances too consider.

    Jonathan Kent inspires his son to be his own man and in that he makes him just as human as anyone else. Which, in the end, gives him cause and purpose to stand up for humanity.

    Jonathan Kent: I have to believe that you were... that you were sent here for a reason. All these changes that you're going through, one day... one day you're gonna think of them as a blessing; and when that day comes, you're gonna have to make a choice... a choice of whether to stand proud in front of the human race or not.
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    Old 08-13-2017, 03:46 PM   #703
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    For those still watching the CW shows, here's the dates for the next crossover episodes:

    https://i.redd.it/x3d6uoo92ddz.jpg
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    Old 08-14-2017, 05:04 AM   #704
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by chadizzy1 View Post
    For those still watching the CW shows, here's the dates for the next crossover episodes:

    https://i.redd.it/x3d6uoo92ddz.jpg
    Makes sense to move Arrow to Monday for one night to keep it over two nights instead of 3.
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    Old 08-16-2017, 04:44 AM   #705
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    http://io9.gizmodo.com/casey-affleck...-co-1797878970

    Just as we expected Casey Affleck would let this slip on sports talk radio.

    Quote:
    Speaking on WEEI Sports Radio Network, Affleck was asked if his brother would be coming back to do Matt Reeves’ solo Batman movie:

    “He’s not going to do that movie, I don’t think,” Affleck says. “Or so I would say.” This seems definitive until the hosts say Casey is “breaking news.” Immediately, the actor kind of walks back the comments. “Is that breaking news? I was just kind of making that up,” he adds before a bunch of people talking over each other.
    Link has an audio clip for those interested.
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    Old 08-16-2017, 05:10 AM   #706
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    BREAKING Moos!!!!

    Lot of interesting stories lately about Justice League....

    Cyborg has a complete tone shift
    First draft of the movie was "unwatchable"

    I know my superfriend here loves these reports!
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    Old 08-16-2017, 06:20 AM   #707
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    Wonder Woman was great and the trailer for Justice League looks cool. You finally have some momentum DC, don't fuck it up.
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    Old 08-16-2017, 06:30 AM   #708
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    The rumors don't really bother me anymore, I will judge the movie based on the movie and not what happened during its production. Very excited for JL. Some of the news with Cyborg is a little disappointing but I guess that's what we should expect going forward with DC, take the real psychological/philosophical weight out of the movies and just make them fun. Oh well. We have a great, complex, engaging, thoughtful DC movie in the form of BvS and to a lesser extent MoS, those will always be great watches. If JL isn't good, it isn't good, nothing anyone on these boards can do about it.

    I think Ben will be Batman for at least the first Reeves film. I don't know why he would turn that down. Being Batman is one of the most high-profile gigs you can have in Hollywood and would be a massive pay day. Unless he truly does not like the script/story, I don't see how he doesn't do the film.
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    Old 08-16-2017, 06:45 AM   #709
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by M. Steng View Post
    The rumors don't really bother me anymore, I will judge the movie based on the movie and not what happened during its production. Very excited for JL. Some of the news with Cyborg is a little disappointing but I guess that's what we should expect going forward with DC, take the real psychological/philosophical weight out of the movies and just make them fun. Oh well. We have a great, complex, engaging, thoughtful DC movie in the form of BvS and to a lesser extent MoS, those will always be great watches. If JL isn't good, it isn't good, nothing anyone on these boards can do about it.

    I think Ben will be Batman for at least the first Reeves film. I don't know why he would turn that down. Being Batman is one of the most high-profile gigs you can have in Hollywood and would be a massive pay day. Unless he truly does not like the script/story, I don't see how he doesn't do the film.
    I hope he sticks around for a little while. Even for the crap that BvS got, he was praised. But if he were to leave because he thought the script was bad, I'd have to respect that. Keaton did and clearly he was onto something back then.
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    Old 08-16-2017, 07:11 AM   #710
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Only reason I could see him backing out is that they took his idea and story and basically threw it in the trash.

    Is it possible that this Flash/Flashpoint movie could just change who Batman is?

    I don't know anything about the story.

    In reference to the unwatchable draft of the film....got to take that with a grain of salt since some similar stuff was said about Wonder Woman which obviously turned out to be nothing.
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    Old 08-16-2017, 09:40 AM   #711
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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by UCFish View Post
    Only reason I could see him backing out is that they took his idea and story and basically threw it in the trash.

    Is it possible that this Flash/Flashpoint movie could just change who Batman is?

    I don't know anything about the story.

    In reference to the unwatchable draft of the film....got to take that with a grain of salt since some similar stuff was said about Wonder Woman which obviously turned out to be nothing.
    In theory, it could change the Batman actor, but it depends on what way they go with the storyline. Since it's in print, they could take certain liberties. When Barry wakes up in the Flashpoint timeline, Thomas Wayne was Batman. At the end of Flashpoint, Earth, Earth 13 and Earth 50 merged to create the new universe (New 52). However, in that new universe, Bruce was still the same Bruce (in the comic) from before Barry altered the timeline, presumably.

    It's a great story if you've never read it. I'd suggest reading it before the Flash movie, just to see if they keep the story or change it any. You could also watch Justice League, Flashpoint Paradox.

    A side note, I really hope they use Jeffrey Dean Morgan, who played Thomas Wayne in BvS, as Flashpoint Batman in the Flash movie. I'd love to see what he could do.

    Last edited by chadizzy1; 08-16-2017 at 09:41 AM.
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    Old 08-17-2017, 09:20 AM   #712
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Looking forward to this:

    http://www.dccomics.com/comics/batma...white-knight-1

    BATMAN: WHITE KNIGHT #1
    U.S. Price: $3.99
    ON SALE 10/4

    In a world where Batman has gone too far, The Joker must save Gotham City.

    He’s been called a maniac, a killer and the “Clown Prince of Crime” but “white knight”? Never. Until now…

    Set in a world where the Joker is cured of his insanity and homicidal tendencies, The Joker, now known as “Jack,” sets about trying to right his wrongs. First he plans to reconcile with Harley Quinn, and then he’ll try to save the city from the one person who he thinks is truly Gotham City’s greatest villain: Batman!

    Superstar writer and artist Sean Murphy (PUNK ROCK JESUS, THE WAKE) presents a seven-issue miniseries of a twisted Gotham City with a massive cast of heroes and villains that, at its heart, is a tragic story of a hero and a villain: Batman and The Joker. But which is the hero—and which the villain?
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    Old 08-17-2017, 02:35 PM   #713
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by DMBZeppelin View Post
    http://io9.gizmodo.com/casey-affleck...-co-1797878970

    Just as we expected Casey Affleck would let this slip on sports talk radio.



    Link has an audio clip for those interested.
    It's the #Dork Podcast, and Rich Keefe breaking news!
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    Old 08-17-2017, 11:18 PM   #714
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    I'm optimistic about JL
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    Old 08-22-2017, 05:35 PM   #715
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Seems like this could be an epic movie, but WB is starting a new DC cinematic universe that isn't the DCEU.

    Quote:
    The Joker Origin Story On Deck: Todd Phillips, Scott Silver, Martin Scorsese Aboard WB/DC Film

    EXCLUSIVE: Warner Bros and DC are in the early stages of another Batman Universe spinoff movie, this one telling the origin story of the signature villain The Joker. The studio has set The Hangover‘s Todd Phillips to co-write a script with 8 Mile scribe Scott Silver. Phillips will direct the movie, and Martin Scorsese will produce it with Phillips. This will be the first film under a new banner that has yet to be named in which WB can expand the canon of DC properties and create unique storylines with different actors playing the iconic characters.

    I’m told that the intention is to make an origin story that isn’t part of any other iteration. The Joker has memorably been part of two Batman movies in the form of Jack Nicholson and Heath Ledger, and was most recently played by Jared Leto in the first Suicide Squad film. He will reprise in the Suicide Squad sequel and the Harley Quinn spinoff, but this new film will launch the character with a different actor, possibly younger.

    An intriguing part is the setting. The intention is to make a gritty and grounded hard-boiled crime film set in early-’80s Gotham City that isn’t meant to feel like a DC movie as much as one of Scorsese’s films from that era, like Taxi Driver, Raging Bull or The King Of Comedy. I’m told that Phillips and Silver are writing already, but there is nothing firm on where this will fit into the DC schedule.

    Phillips most recently directed War Dogs with Jonah Hill and Miles Teller. Silver’s recent script credits include The Fighter as well as Stronger, the David Gordon Green-directed Toronto-bound drama that stars Jake Gyllenhaal as Jeff Bauman, whose lower legs were blown off near the finish line of the Boston Marathon terror attack.
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    Old 08-22-2017, 05:39 PM   #716
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Awesome idea. I think they learned from WW that they will have success if they just make great movies about these awesome characters without having to tie it to a bigger world. Really looking forward to this and other similar projects.
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    Old 08-22-2017, 07:02 PM   #717
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    yeah I'm all for cool independent stories over super-connected whatever
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    Old 08-22-2017, 07:28 PM   #718
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    I really want a Martian Mahunter origin movie. He is a fascinating character and the movie could be really good.
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    Old 08-23-2017, 05:47 AM   #719
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by TwoStep2888 View Post
    yeah I'm all for cool independent stories over super-connected whatever
    Exactly. DC has quite possibly the richest roster of heroes and villains from any genre, anywhere. But, no matter how great those characters are, you need to deliver them to a mass audience with a great story first and foremost. If they can figure out how to connect them, great, if not, I honestly could not care less at this point.
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    Old 08-23-2017, 08:51 AM   #720
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    Re: DC Cinematic/TV Marthaverse Fandom (DCUc)

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by M. Steng View Post
    Exactly. DC has quite possibly the richest roster of heroes and villains from any genre, anywhere. But, no matter how great those characters are, you need to deliver them to a mass audience with a great story first and foremost. If they can figure out how to connect them, great, if not, I honestly could not care less at this point.
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