Are We Brainwashed?

[mattyk72]

I think some people are thinking way too hard about this. It's a good album regardless of what has come before.

[hungryjack75]

The problem with Everyday & Stand up is they were overproduced. I did not care much for either one when released....but the band gave the songs life in concert. I think there are many great songs from both of those albums...just be sure to listen to the live versions.

[ShotgunDMB]

Busted Stuff is good.
Everyday is a good pop album.
Big Whiskey is good.

Stand Up is lifeless.

[bmt322]

Can people please stop putting Busted Stuff in the same category as Everyday and Stand Up. Busted Stuff is a GREAT record, in my opinion of course. It is way better. I love the sound the band had in 2002. You can clearly hear every instrument in Busted Stuff.

And no, we are not brainwashed. BWGK is a great album. If we have any doubts right now, it could be because we aren't used to the new sound yet. I am not even used to the new sound yet, but I know it's a great album. If an album has songs that move me, it is good. BWGK has these songs, in fact, every DMB album has these songs. Even Stand Up's ABI does, but that doesn't count, because Stand Up is not good.

[bmt322]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Busted Stuff is good.
Everyday is a good pop album.
Big Whiskey is good.

Stand Up is lifeless.

[dmaul1114]

I agree. Busted Stuff is very good. I actually prefer it to LWS personally. Some of the lyric changes I didn't like, but the songs overall sound better, and I didn't much care for the couple of songs that didn't make it over.

[bmt322]

Originally Posted by dmaul1114

I agree. Busted Stuff is very good. I actually prefer it to LWS personally. Some of the lyric changes I didn't like, but the songs overall sound better, and I didn't much care for the couple of songs that didn't make it over.

I wish Monkey Man could've made it, but then again, I love the way it was left on tLWS. I just love the way the band sounds on Busted Stuff. It's just the 5 of them and they all conquer equally.

[aoeiifreak]

I wouldn't call it brainwashing, but it's only human to appreciate good music maybe a little too avidly after the likes of ED and SU. If this were made right after Crash, people would be flipping their shit, but at this point in the band's career BWGK might be the best possible outcome.

[jaymas9]

Nah. I think the opposite could be applied as well. They released some material that was subpar making us very, very critical, leaving us in a situation to really analyze. That said, I don't think either extreme really applies. I think as a whole DMB's bad albums have not been that well recieved among the hardcore fanbase and the good ones have been. So far the treatment of this one is good. I think it is solid evidence we have a good album. It ranks number four with me, and that is fine....honestly I think it going to be the beginning of another chain of albums whether that be one or two more. And I think the next one will be better than this one.

[inmytree]

Originally Posted by bmt322

Can people please stop putting Busted Stuff in the same category as Everyday and Stand Up.

That's a ridiculous assertion, that BS is on par with those two albums. Even if they did just come in and press play then go home, Busted Stuff has Busted Stuff (the song), Grey Street, You Never Know, Raven, Grace Is Gone, Digging a Ditch and Bartender. I get the whole "there's not as much emotion as the LWS" and "the songs are worse!" I get all of that, but to say that that group of songs doesn't kick the crap out of anything on Everyday and Stand Up is crazy.

[Beebz]

Originally Posted by hungryjack75

The problem with Everyday & Stand up is they were overproduced. I did not care much for either one when released....but the band gave the songs life in concert. I think there are many great songs from both of those albums...just be sure to listen to the live versions.

[Beebz]

Originally Posted by ShotgunDMB

Busted Stuff is good.
Everyday is a good pop album.
Big Whiskey is good.

Stand Up is lifeless.

Everyday is a toilet-clogging turd. Other than that, we're fine.

[Panther41]

Here's the breakdown as I see it:

RT2 - First release, solidified the fanbase they were gathering at the start

UTTAD - First major label release, brought in a slew of new fans

Crash - First really big "pop" success, and a defining album for fans

BTCS - Culmination of their work with Lillywhite, a masterpiece, how do you follow this??

Lillywhite Sessions - Pressure to perform and personal issues took their toll on Dave, the sessions broke down

Everyday - Fly Dave out to L.A., put him with a major producer, make something that will sell; this was a patch job, an anomally, but a damn good one

Busted Stuff - What I consider the band's most intimate album, pure DMB roster, a necessary step to legitimize (and get credit for) the LWS material

Stand Up - First attempt at changing their sound and branching out into a new direction; terrible choice of a producer who didn't know how to capture the scope and depth of their stage sound; and, as we now know, a rough patch among the band members

Big Whiskey and The Groogrux King - The "don't call it a comeback!" comeback record. Newfound chemistry among the band members, a producer who knows how to get a big sound from a band that specializes in big sounds. This is the re-defining record that Stand Up should have been. This is DMB 2.0 and I, personally, freakin' love it.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by bmt322

Can people please stop putting Busted Stuff in the same category as Everyday and Stand Up. Busted Stuff is a GREAT record, in my opinion of course. It is way better. I love the sound the band had in 2002. You can clearly hear every instrument in Busted Stuff.

And no, we are not brainwashed. BWGK is a great album. If we have any doubts right now, it could be because we aren't used to the new sound yet. I am not even used to the new sound yet, but I know it's a great album. If an album has songs that move me, it is good. BWGK has these songs, in fact, every DMB album has these songs. Even Stand Up's ABI does, but that doesn't count, because Stand Up is not good.

Everyday is a better studio album than BS. BS, outside of a couple of tracks, is complete crap.

/opinion.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by inmytree

That's a ridiculous assertion, that BS is on par with those two albums. Even if they did just come in and press play then go home, Busted Stuff has Busted Stuff (the song), Grey Street, You Never Know, Raven, Grace Is Gone, Digging a Ditch and Bartender. I get the whole "there's not as much emotion as the LWS" and "the songs are worse!" I get all of that, but to say that that group of songs doesn't kick the crap out of anything on Everyday and Stand Up is crazy.

Explain to me what it is about the Busted Stuff versions of Raven, Big Eyed Fish, and Captain that do anything like kick the crap out of the studio versions of IIHIA, What You Are, and Sleep To Dream Her.

[sharibean]

Originally Posted by bmt322

Can people please stop putting Busted Stuff in the same category as Everyday and Stand Up. Busted Stuff is a GREAT record, in my opinion of course. It is way better. I love the sound the band had in 2002. You can clearly hear every instrument in Busted Stuff.

i really love busted stuff and to me it's closer to the big 3 than any of the other albums after BTCS. i definitely think that Monkey Man, JTR and SUAD should have made it onto the album and it would have been so much better for it, but they didn't and i love every song on BS except for WAYG and Raven (i realize i'm the minority here).

i don't count LWS as an album because it wasn't an album so it doesn't fall into my ranking. stand up is definitely at the bottom of my list.

i don't think we are brainwashed but i think that which each passing album we are realizing that we're probably never going to get another "big 3" album because the band that made those albums doesn't exist anymore. it's been 11 years since BTCS. the guys have all evolved and grown and had different life experiences which have shaped the music on Big Whiskey. that being said, there are jewels like SMLAM (my opinion) and Shotgun - so maybe we'll never get another amazing full studio album but this has never been a band that has been known only for its studio music. many of the songs that i love from them have never been recorded in the studio.

[vtshwheels77]

I'm actually thinking the opposite, guys. If BWGK had come out after BTCS I guarantee that rather than complain about how Tim is all over the album people would have loved the "new direction." If anything, Everyday & Stand Up hurt Big Whiskey because it gave people the impression that DMB can never come out with another big album. Guess again. It would have been the Big 4 IMO.

[sharibean]

Originally Posted by vtshwheels77

I'm actually thinking the opposite, guys. If BWGK had come out after BTCS I guarantee that rather than complain about how Tim is all over the album people would have loved the "new direction." If anything, Everyday & Stand Up hurt Big Whiskey because it gave people the impression that DMB can never come out with another big album. Guess again. It would have been the Big 4 IMO.

interesting...

[Noles20]

Originally Posted by vtshwheels77

I'm actually thinking the opposite, guys. If BWGK had come out after BTCS I guarantee that rather than complain about how Tim is all over the album people would have loved the "new direction." If anything, Everyday & Stand Up hurt Big Whiskey because it gave people the impression that DMB can never come out with another big album. Guess again. It would have been the Big 4 IMO.

I agree. ED and SU created a tendency to look for a problem with the music that didn't exist pre-ED. Message borads and the internet have magnified this tendency as well.

[Beebz]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

Explain to me what it is about the Busted Stuff versions of Raven, Big Eyed Fish, and Captain that do anything like kick the crap out of the studio versions of IIHIA, What You Are, and Sleep To Dream Her.

Raven has finished lyrics, so I dont know if that was your best example. Big Eyed fish is fine. Captain sucks, we all know that. But I'll take Busted Stuff Captain over anything--anything--on Everyday.

The songs on Busted Stuff are so much better its disgusting. The production may be superior on Everyday, but that doesnt matter to me in the slightest. Everyday is a well-polished turd. Busted Stuff is a collection of great to above-average songs that were recorded in a less that perfect manner. BS wins in a landslide.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

Raven has finished lyrics, so I dont know if that was your best example.

Well, it is, because the finished lyrics are bad.

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

Big Eyed fish is fine.

BEF is dreadfully boring. The thing that made the song stand out were the way the vocal harmonies inetrtwined with Boyd and Roi. That's completely gone. It's not exactlY Dave's most inventive guitar riff by itself.

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

Captain sucks, we all know that. But I'll take Busted Stuff Captain over anything--anything--on Everyday.

Yes, but why? The song is bad. What makes it better than IIHIA or WYA?

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

The songs on Busted Stuff are so much better its disgusting. The production may be superior on Everyday, but that doesnt matter to me in the slightest. Everyday is a well-polished turd. Busted Stuff is a collection of great to above-average songs that were recorded in a less that perfect manner. BS wins in a landslide.

And I'm asking you, what makes those particular songs that I mentioned better? Because I'm not seeing it on any level.

[Heavy As Stone]

To all busted stuff enthusiasts...

That record is an afterthought. Even to the band, it's just an afterthought. A few things were good on it, but it is in many ways just as lazy as Stand Up.

[sharibean]

Originally Posted by Heavy As Stone

To all busted stuff enthusiasts...

That record is an afterthought. Even to the band, it's just an afterthought. A few things were good on it, but it is in many ways just as lazy as Stand Up.

afterthought or not, i still love the songs and i think ALL of them are a million times better than anything on Stand Up.

[Noles20]

Originally Posted by Heavy As Stone

To all busted stuff enthusiasts...

That record is an afterthought. Even to the band, it's just an afterthought. A few things were good on it, but it is in many ways just as lazy as Stand Up.

I've always wanted to be an enthusiast.

[Beebz]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

Well, it is, because the finished lyrics are bad.

BEF is dreadfully boring. The thing that made the song stand out were the way the vocal harmonies inetrtwined with Boyd and Roi. That's completely gone. It's not exactlY Dave's most inventive guitar riff by itself.

Yes, but why? The song is bad. What makes it better than IIHIA or WYA?

And I'm asking you, what makes those particular songs that I mentioned better? Because I'm not seeing it on any level.

1. Disagree on the lyrics being bad. Especially when the comparison is anything from Everyday.

2. Big Eyed Fish was boring on Lillywhite. It certainly didnt get substantially worse on BS.

3. WYA and IIHIA are really bad. That's what makes it different to me. Captain, even the BS version, is a superior song than anything off of Everyday.

4. They are better in every fashion--Lyrically, musically, thematically. You name it, and BS is better. Everyday has no depth, no quality songs, no soul, and no band. Its production is superior. That's it. And that doesnt matter to me one bit when youre talking about an album full of terrible songs.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

1. Disagree on the lyrics being bad. Especially when the comparison is anything from Everyday.

Explain to me what makes the lyrics to Raven better than the lyrics to IIHIA.

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

2. Big Eyed Fish was boring on Lillywhite. It certainly didnt get substantially worse on BS.

i already explained why it got substantially worse. You can disagree, but it would be nice if you could at least offer a counterargument.

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

3. WYA and IIHIA are really bad. That's what makes it different to me. Captain, even the BS version, is a superior song than anything off of Everyday.

And I ask AGAIN - what makes them bad?

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

4. They are better in every fashion--Lyrically, musically, thematically. You name it, and BS is better. Everyday has no depth, no quality songs, no soul, and no band. Its production is superior. That's it. And that doesnt matter to me one bit when youre talking about an album full of terrible songs.

And I ask again - what makes the songs I mentioned better musically and lyrically on BS?

[jaymas9]

Busted Stuff is a great collection of songs. As an album, it is a complete, unemotional, afterthought. The shame is that that collection of songs should have been given better final studio treatment.

[GoLdpHiShDMB]

i love the new cd.

[Beebz]

Originally Posted by MistreatedLewis

Explain to me what makes the lyrics to Raven better than the lyrics to IIHIA.

i already explained why it got substantially worse. You can disagree, but it would be nice if you could at least offer a counterargument.

And I ask AGAIN - what makes them bad?

And I ask again - what makes the songs I mentioned better musically and lyrically on BS?

Nevermind. It wont make a bit of difference, and I have other stuff to do.

The best I can say is this--The Everyday songs are shallow, mediocre, lazy pop songs that contain nothing resembling quality music. They are lyrically, musically, and thematically juvenile, while the Busted Stuff songs attempt --and largely succeed--to recapture the sound and weight of DMB's better work.

[MistreatedLewis]

Originally Posted by bbianca1982

Nevermind. It wont make a bit of difference, and I have other stuff to do.

The best I can say is this--The Everyday songs are shallow, mediocre, lazy pop songs that contain nothing resembling quality music. They are lyrically, musically, and thematically juvenile, while the Busted Stuff songs attempt --and largely succeed--to recapture the sound and weight of DMB's better work.

Ok, then we'll agree to disagree.