Mercy and Gaucho are really bad songs...

[stoneje]

Loving the outro. Doesn't it have a classic DMB feel to it already?

I'm just tossing this out there: if Butch was still around, I could totally see a Mercy --> Linus & Lucy --> Heartbeat --> PNP ---> Rapunzel.

[mattbp102191]

Originally Posted by character111

You guys do realize that the way these songs are being played right now is the closest to how they will probably sound on the album? I commented in another thread - I understand the anticipation that some fans have for songs to develop and grow over time. But the album is what most people will listen to more than live recordings. It's important that the official versions of these songs also be up to par. It seems like some of you are looking forward to the new album not for the album itself, but to hear the songs sounding different six months later. That's fine, but it just seems backwards to me. I'd rather the band get a song right in the first place, and then build on that. Otherwise, we get an album of half-developed songs.

That's a good point. Though I do think that usually what is recorded on the album has a fuller sound then when the songs are debuted live. I have a song debut compilation that has a ton of premiere's from tours past. The band on some of them seem slightly unsure/the sound "feels" empty to me, whereas on the album they're obviously not that way. I think in some cases (Rapunzel is an example I can think of off the top of my head), as time goes on, the band actually gets tunes tighter and more like the album. I think what we heard at first for Mercy isn't exactly like what the album will be like...I bet the album version will sound slightly fuller than the first couple live plays sounded. Thats just my guess though, could be totally wrong haha. nonetheless...still very optimistic for the tour AND what has already been recorded on that album

[SpotlightEyes]

I just hope these songs (and the rest) on the album have a finished sound and quality to them. Every track on Stand Up and most of Big Whiskey sounds so rushed and unfinished that its frightening. You can tell when the band starts playing them live for the first time and after just a few performances it changes dramatically.....almost as if the studio recording were the only time they'd even played the whole song together.

[krobinson_3232]

I really, really, really hated Mercy on Fallon. However after hearing it in Atlanta and Charlotte full band, I am really liking it. They could do a few segues with the style of the intro and outro. The only complaint I have with it now is the very common one of "you and you and you" lyric. Glad to see the writing finally has substance now!

[chiprip]

Originally Posted by hairyfeetdb1

I was at atlanta and couldn't get over how amazing this song is live. I will go on record saying I think it's the best since Shotgun. This is probably the most heartfelt song Dave has written since pre-Everyday (excluding Baby Blue). You can just tell this is a message he had to get off his chest and for that I absolutely love it.

I'm going to go on record and back you up. After listening to the live recordings I have completely come around on Mercy. I think it is an outstanding song! It breathes and comes off so much more natural than it did on Fallon. Great stuff and I'm looking forward to seeing it myself.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by SpotlightEyes

....almost as if the studio recording were the only time they'd even played the whole song together.

In the studio most discs are recorded in parts, rarely "full band".
(Some tracks are recorded with up to 64+ tracks of layers and overdubs.)
It's possible that the band never played some of these songs "full band" until they practiced for a tour.

[Bluewater21]

Originally Posted by MOWJO8185

I think he was disputing the statement you made that all DMB does is put half-developed songs onto albums and then turn them into monsters live. While the "turning into monsters live" part is spot on, DMB's studio work in their early years was fantastic in and of itself, and wasn't what I would call "half-developed".

And I agree with his point. It's great that as time goes on they might make some of these songs live powerhouses, but I really hope the studio album is up to snuff. Maybe it's because my musical tastes have started to divert away from "jam bands", but as I've gotten older I've grown to appreciate that there are also things that you can capture in the studio that can't be captured in live versions. And I do think DMB had some of that special studio prowess for their first few albums as well.

Ok I obviously didn't clarify myself. I wasn't suggesting that their albums were lackluster in any way. I love every album, what I meant by "half developed" was the main song constructed minus the jams built in on tour.

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by MOWJO8185

I think he was disputing the statement you made that all DMB does is put half-developed songs onto albums and then turn them into monsters live. While the "turning into monsters live" part is spot on, DMB's studio work in their early years was fantastic in and of itself, and wasn't what I would call "half-developed".

And I agree with his point. It's great that as time goes on they might make some of these songs live powerhouses, but I really hope the studio album is up to snuff. Maybe it's because my musical tastes have started to divert away from "jam bands", but as I've gotten older I've grown to appreciate that there are also things that you can capture in the studio that can't be captured in live versions. And I do think DMB had some of that special studio prowess for their first few albums as well.

Exactly.

Whether he meant it or not, saying that anything on the Big 3 and even LWS (in unfinished form no less!) was "half-developed" in the studio is a profoundly ignorant statement or poorly worded and incredibly misleading.

[SpecialAgent007]

Originally Posted by Bluewater21

Ok I obviously didn't clarify myself. I wasn't suggesting that their albums were lackluster in any way. I love every album, what I meant by "half developed" was the main song constructed minus the jams built in on tour.

And again, that's a very, very, very different thing from saying that a song is "half-developed." Their first three studio albums were terrific in every way. BTCS is damn-near masterpiece status in my mind. Live music done right will always be incredibly satisfying, potentially far more so than a studio recording, but it does not mean that the studio recordings were half-developed ideas. They're great studio recordings of great songs. That they become greater in the live setting does not change the fact they would still be great if only the studio cuts existed and the songs were never played live.

And in terms then of relating that idea to everything released since 2001, I don't think you can say that a lot of that material was "great" in the studio nor even live. There were some solid tunes here and there, but nothing approaching the content on the first 3+LWS albums, and that goes for live and on the album. Those Everyday and Stand Up tunes had more room to grow live as they were starting from such a lowly place, but just because What You Are got better live over time doesn't mean that I think it's a great song. I still would just assume never hear it again.

Great songs are great songs no matter what. Stripped down to the barest of instrumentation, full band studio arrangement, full band live, a cappella, etc...there's little you can do to make a great song be anything less than a great song. And unfortunately, that theory holds fairly similarly for bad to mediocre songs. You can polish a turd and it's still a turd. You can make something mediocre a little more tolerable, but if that's the best you can say about something, you weren't starting out with much to begin with.

Great songs always win.

[hairyfeetdb1]

Originally Posted by chiprip

I'm going to go on record and back you up. After listening to the live recordings I have completely come around on Mercy. I think it is an outstanding song! It breathes and comes off so much more natural than it did on Fallon. Great stuff and I'm looking forward to seeing it myself.

I'm not alone!!!!

[dmbdreamingtree]

How fast a mind can be changed.

Mercy 5-22 is good. Promising stuff.

[Bluewater21]

Originally Posted by SpecialAgent007

Exactly.

Whether he meant it or not, saying that anything on the Big 3 and even LWS (in unfinished form no less!) was "half-developed" in the studio is a profoundly ignorant statement or poorly worded and incredibly misleading.

ha jeeze sorry your honor

[cf24tom]

I didn't care for either one of these songs the first time I heard them, but I enjoy them now.

[timothk]

Originally Posted by canes101190

I'd rather staple my dick to a burning log than read this thread.

Really hoping this doesn't become a new emoticon.

[pmcox3333]

still loving them. even more having seen them live.

[skers7676]

Did not read above.. Mercy is fucking good....

[hmich176]

The thread title should be "Time Bomb and Cornbread are really bad songs...".

[lesky20]

what is so outstanding about these songs? Lyrics are pretty cheesey to me, specially for Mr. Matthews. Please, do yourselves a favor and listen to The Lumineers, simple yet so good. Edward Sharpe...real. The Head and the Heart, love. With the setlists the DMB are playing right now, I'm in it more for the opening acts and I've been to 41 DMB shows...I love my Dave Matthews Band, but I honestly hope that these two new songs are the worst of the album. Just my opinion. Oh yeah, Avett Brothers...can't forget them

[hmich176]

Originally Posted by lesky20

what is so outstanding about these songs? Lyrics are pretty cheesey to me, specially for Mr. Matthews.

Have you not listened to Stand Up? Or Everyday? Or even Big Whiskey?

[xnad]

Originally Posted by bigeyedfinn

The fact that this band has been playing for over 20 years and still producing music is incredible. The fact that they are producing music at this level is even more insane. The best DMB songs usually have dark lyrics which are drawn from really dark times in Dave's life. The fact of the matter is Dave and the rest of the band are rich with families and a really good, stable life. We aren't going to get the 20 something trying to find yourself with a really interesting and messed up childhood lyrics. Dave got those out of his system and is now writing about what he feels. Musically these songs are great, but don't expect the lyrics of the big 3 ever again.

Exactly, I agree. They are in a different place in their lives.

[I Subliminal I]

Originally Posted by lesky20

what is so outstanding about these songs? Lyrics are pretty cheesey to me, especially for Mr. Matthews. Please, do yourselves a favor and listen to The Lumineers, simple yet so good. Edward Sharpe...real. The Head and the Heart, love. With the setlists the DMB are playing right now, I'm in it more for the opening acts and I've been to 41 DMB shows...I love my Dave Matthews Band, but I honestly hope that these two new songs are the worst of the album. Just my opinion. Oh yeah, Avett Brothers...can't forget them

you too cool for school walter cronkite? cant put that e in front?

[42graystreet]

After listening to the full band versions, I've got a suspicion that Mercy is going to be one of my favorite studio songs by this band.

[Panther41]

Originally Posted by hmich176

The thread title should be "Time Bomb and Cornbread are really bad songs...".

Except, I've always loved Cornbread. Still do. Lyrics and all.

[lesky20]

Originally Posted by I Subliminal I

you too cool for school walter cronkite? cant put that e in front?

Sorry I forgot the 'e' my bad...and no, not too cool. Just trying to be real. I guess I just don't understand :/

[BigEyedGooch]

These two songs are so refreshing musically. Mercy is begging for a great segue from the outro, and gaucho has a pace and guitar riff reminiscent of the Stone. In fact, Gaucho->Stone would make a killer segue. Yes, I am disappointed with dave's lyrical output post-Lillywhite sessions, but I have accepted that we probably will hear few dreaming tree/spoon quality lyrical achievements from dave moving forward. Musically, these two songs are a true return to form for the band. They fucking SOUND like dmb.

[Sabres914]

Originally Posted by BigEyedGooch

These two songs are so refreshing musically. Mercy is begging for a great segue from the outro, and gaucho has a pace and guitar riff reminiscent of the Stone. In fact, Gaucho->Stone would make a killer segue. Yes, I am disappointed with dave's lyrical output post-Lillywhite sessions, but I have accepted that we probably will hear few dreaming tree/spoon quality lyrical achievements from dave moving forward. Musically, these two songs are a true return to form for the band. They fucking SOUND like dmb.

I love the idea of a Gaucho>Stone segue or even Stone>Gaucho.